Keystone Pipeline - a red line?

[LouderVol]

I think there is a segment of the population that believes that if they buy x at Wal-Mart for $10 then Wal-Mart has just made a $10 profit.

Are you saying that Wal-Mart forces China against it's will to provide merchandise or vise versa?



I don't give a damn what the goal of a tariff is, the result is higher coerced prices. What options are coming back? Are we going to start building textiles, paper mills,etc. Our manufacturing is competitive and specialized and it's cheaper to buy less specialized stuff from other countries.

We could build greenhouses to support a domestic banana industry but we would be poorer because South America does it better and cheaper so we buy from them. This is called comparative advantage. We in turn sell them airplanes, which we do better.

Walmart and China were two different examples. Ask anyone who has dealt with Walmart as a supplier. I think Hog can speak to some of this. They typically come in and work with a supplier to get the suppliers product on Walmart's shelf. Walmart requires them to supply X number of the product. enough where a smaller supplier either has to increase production or only supply to Walmart. Walmart will often require that that supplier only works with them. After this supplier has tied itself, either through contract or percentage of sales, Walmart comes back and says we will buy this product at a cheaper price. supplier has a choice. Either cut Walmart and find some other shelves to sell on, and who can replace Walmart, or take the loss from the price. a good number of suppliers are stuck in this trap.

China coerces but slashing their own prices and requiring their companies continue to produce beyond demands. again the goal being is by the time they correct the pricing they are the only ones, or who a much larger share, of the market. You and 8188 seem to be fine with it because it gives us cheaper crap. Steel is a perfect example if you need specifics. It was a big reason for the Brexit. the EU was not allowing Britain to make changes to their steel industry to be competitive with Chinese pricing. that ticked off a good number of people.

again I am getting, and have gotten, mixed messages from guys, you 8188 and Huff. Its a good thing (acceptable maybe a better word) if the market manipulates pricing. but it becomes the absolute worst thing imaginable if the government does it. even if the government does it forestalls a worse (vs higher prices) future for their nation.

 

[midnight orange]

try reading my posts again. I don't think the end goal is to make things more expensive. and as long as I have been alive, before these tariffs, and even after the free trade deals, prices have done nothing but increase anyway. If they are going to I would rather it happens with us in control. Essentially the way I see it is we are heading off the cliff before we get there.

That's not correct. Prices have been decreasing and quality increasing in clothing, computers, computing power, cellphones, cellphone service, electronics, TV's, etc.

Prices are increasing in industries where government has its mitts all over such as healthcare, education, housing, food and beverage, automobiles, etc.

 

[LouderVol]

How is it welfare for other nations?

If anything taxing Americans (tariffs) to protect manufacturing jobs would be welfare.

globally. put another way its kinda like the FIAT monetary system. The global economy works as long as you believe in it. as soon as that is shaken goodbye world economy. I believe the healthier (for lack of a better adjective) option is more localized manufacturing and production in general.

like I said I would need to see a lot of various numbers to make a comparison on if our specialized production of today has put us in a better position than when we did more general manufacturing. I frankly can't see how it does on the numbers I have seen.

again one stoppage in China screws us in America? I don't like that. its bad enough when a pipe in Alabama bursts and the east coast goes into panic mode over gas. think of that on a global scale.

 

[Vol8188]

The problem is you're falsely assuming that taxing everyone to save 1% of the population or less from losing their job is a good thing.

The truth is that your tax ends up costing more jobs than the 1% you saved (see the Great Depression)

 

[Vol8188]

globally. put another way its kinda like the FIAT monetary system. The global economy works as long as you believe in it. as soon as that is shaken goodbye world economy. I believe the healthier (for lack of a better adjective) option is more localized manufacturing and production in general.

like I said I would need to see a lot of various numbers to make a comparison on if our specialized production of today has put us in a better position than when we did more general manufacturing. I frankly can't see how it does on the numbers I have seen.

again one stoppage in China screws us in America? I don't like that. its bad enough when a pipe in Alabama bursts and the east coast goes into panic mode over gas. think of that on a global scale.

You're welcome to believe that. You're welcome to only buy local products. But you're wrong when you force others to do so.

 

[midnight orange]

Walmart and China were two different examples. Ask anyone who has dealt with Walmart as a supplier. I think Hog can speak to some of this. They typically come in and work with a supplier to get the suppliers product on Walmart's shelf. Walmart requires them to supply X number of the product. enough where a smaller supplier either has to increase production or only supply to Walmart. Walmart will often require that that supplier only works with them. After this supplier has tied itself, either through contract or percentage of sales, Walmart comes back and says we will buy this product at a cheaper price. supplier has a choice. Either cut Walmart and find some other shelves to sell on, and who can replace Walmart, or take the loss from the price. a good number of suppliers are stuck in this trap.

Do they hold a gun to your head or threaten to arrest you?

China coerces but slashing their own prices and requiring their companies continue to produce beyond demands. again the goal being is by the time they correct the pricing they are the only ones, or who a much larger share, of the market. You and 8188 seem to be fine with it because it gives us cheaper crap. Steel is a perfect example if you need specifics. It was a big reason for the Brexit. the EU was not allowing Britain to make changes to their steel industry to be competitive with Chinese pricing. that ticked off a good number of people.

again I am getting, and have gotten, mixed messages from guys, you 8188 and Huff. Its a good thing (acceptable maybe a better word) if the market manipulates pricing. but it becomes the absolute worst thing imaginable if the government does it. even if the government does it forestalls a worse (vs higher prices) future for their nation.

Bush did that by placing tariffs on Chinese steel in the US. The winner was the domestic steel companies at the expense everyone else who used steel. Possibly China was a loser because they were dumping steel at below market prices if I remember correctly.

As long as market is creating the price without the threat of force or fraud, it is acceptable.

 

[midnight orange]

Also if you want to read about what can happen if you dump product in the hopes of cornering the market, check this out

https://fee.org/articles/herbert-dow-and-predatory-pricing/

 

[82_VOL_83]

I present exhibit B. Republicans are the scum of the earth

And liberals are the excrement that produced the scum.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I agree on taxes and regulations.

And all the unfair advantage is, is that they are giving us a product below market value. That's a good thing.

I agree a certain level of manufacturing needs to be maintained. I disagree if you're claiming we are near that threshold

For a war effort, we don't have anywhere near the domestic industrial capacity needed.

 

[Vol8188]

For a war effort, we don't have anywhere near the domestic industrial capacity needed.

Haven't we been at war for a decade and a half

 

[82_VOL_83]

Haven't we been at war for a decade and a half

And much of that product is produced overseas. If we are forced to rely solely on domestic production, we are screwed.


And no, we haven't been at war for years. We have been playing at war. This was assured by the liberal influences in Ws presidency. Desert Storm was an all out effort for a very short period of time in a very small region of the world. A WWII type catastrophe would not be accomplished with current domestic abilities.

 

[Vol8188]

And much of that product is produced overseas. If we are forced to rely solely on domestic production, we are screwed.


And no, we haven't been at war for years. We have been playing at war. This was assured by the liberal influences in Ws presidency. Desert Storm was an all out effort for a very short period of time in a very small region of the world. A WWII type catastrophe would not be accomplished with current domestic abilities.

Is your argument that we should blockade ourself (what enemies do to hurt you doing war) now in case we are blockaded later?

We should intentionally harm our country incase others ever try to harm it?

 

[midnight orange]

And much of that product is produced overseas. If we are forced to rely solely on domestic production, we are screwed.


And no, we haven't been at war for years. We have been playing at war. This was assured by the liberal influences in Ws presidency. Desert Storm was an all out effort for a very short period of time in a very small region of the world. A WWII type catastrophe would not be accomplished with current domestic abilities.

WW2 was ended by using 2 nukes. We have that capability now and more. Our current military capability could probably defeat our WW2 capability without suffering a casualty.

 

[Grand Vol]

Bump for current relevance.

 

[Vol8188]

So day one Biden has made our country more poor and increased our carbon footprint.

Great work

 

[Orange defense]

Bump for current relevance.

Jobs already gone. Gas jumped 15 cents more. Canada is already mad at us. I thought he was going to help Americans? Millions already out of work. Destroyed economy overnight. 5 dollars a gallon coming to your front door.

 

[Grand Vol]

So day one Biden has made our country more poor and increased our carbon footprint.

Great work

Just remember, he's not anti fossil fuel...

 

[hog88]

Bump for current relevance.

Revoking the permit in reality will cause more pollution and use of fossil fuels. The crude from Canada will still be shipped to our Gulf refineries but instead of it flowing through a pipeline with minimal carbon emissions it will be shipped on trains which burn diesel. Oh and Warren Buffet owns BNSF Railway so a big Dem supporter profits.

 

[Vol8188]

Revoking the permit in reality will cause more pollution and use of fossil fuels. The crude from Canada will still be shipped to our Gulf refineries but instead of it flowing through a pipeline with minimal carbon emissions it will be shipped on trains which burn diesel. Oh and Warren Buffet owns BNSF Railway so a big Dem supporter profits.

That’s what I think is most hilarious. The left believes they’ve somehow limited the carbon footprint. They’ve increased the carbon footprint, decreased jobs, and increased long term prices of goods.

Yet they celebrate. Because “oil bad!”

 

[Y9 Vol]

It is all about optics and sound bites. No clue what they are doing except for that.

 

[hog88]

That’s what I think is most hilarious. The left believes they’ve somehow limited the carbon footprint. They’ve increased the carbon footprint, decreased jobs, and increased long term prices of goods.

Yet they celebrate. Because “oil bad!”

BTW Berkshire Hathaway Stock is up $1648 a share this morning over yesterday.

 

[Y9 Vol]

BTW Berkshire Hathaway Stock is up $1648 a share this morning over yesterday.

Well, for THAT I am thankful.

 

[hog88]

Well, for THAT I am thankful.

Always follow the money.

 

[Vol8188]

BTW Berkshire Hathaway Stock is up $1648 a share this morning over yesterday.

I guess his donation are paying off

 

[Y9 Vol]

Always follow the money.

I do have a few shares, so there is that.