Keystone Pipeline - a red line?

[LouderVol]

If the Keystone Pipeline is not in the U.S. national interest, which it is not, then why should a moderate approve it? Your unfamiliarity with the issue inclines you to prejudicial personal attack, which is only evidence your unsound thinking and unethical method.

He didnt have to approve it. He didnt have to do anything. He took an active step to shut it down.

 

[Vol Main]

He didnt have to approve it. He didnt have to do anything. He took an active step to shut it down.

Who is he? Despite all of the industry lobbying and political propaganda for it, which was little better than a pack of lies cooked up by a Canadian public relations firm, the State Department had previously decided that Keystone XL Pipeline was not in the national interest. Trump came along and pandered to the big money interests, by giving them whatever they wanted. And you are going to pretend that Trump's decision based on political corruption was right, but Biden's decision based on national interest was wrong?

 

[Y9 Vol]

Who is he? Despite all of the industry lobbying and political propaganda for it, which was little better than a pack of lies cooked up by a Canadian public relations firm, the State Department had previously decided that Keystone XL Pipeline was not in the national interest. Trump came along and pandered to the big money interests, by giving them whatever they wanted. And you are going to pretend that Trump's decision based on political corruption was right, but Biden's decision based on national interest was wrong?

Give it up PLEASE...no one is buying it.

 

[Vol Main]

Can you define dark money? I'm a little fuzzy on what that really means

Generally, dark money is a stream of unreported financial contributions to political issues, campaigns, or parties. Some people actually get tax write-offs by contributing to nonprofit "educational" corporations which operate as political lobbies. That is not legal, but the IRS turns a blind eye more often than not. The money is not publicly reported, so it is a way to get around financial disclosure laws.

"Politically active nonprofits – principally 501(c)(4)s and 501(c)(6)s – have become a major force in federal elections over the last three cycles. The term "dark money" is often applied to this category of political spender because these groups do not have to disclose the sources of their funding. These organizations can receive unlimited corporate, individual, or union contributions that they do not have to make public, and though their political activity is supposed to be limited, the IRS – which has jurisdiction over these groups – by and large has done little to enforce those limits."
Political Nonprofits (Dark Money) | OpenSecrets

 

[Vol Main]

Give it up PLEASE...no one is buying it.

It's like the Witch Doctor said, "Some get it. Some don't." Can we at least agree that there is another side of the issue that mainstream media has not represented for you to consider? I find it strange when people speak against their own interests. There are folks on this board who fancy themselves as quite the patriots, but the reality is that they believe whatever the corrupt interests tell them and do whatever they are told to do, all the while attacking those who implore them to get better information and think for themselves.

 

[LouderVol]

Who is he? Despite all of the industry lobbying and political propaganda for it, which was little better than a pack of lies cooked up by a Canadian public relations firm, the State Department had previously decided that Keystone XL Pipeline was not in the national interest. Trump came along and pandered to the big money interests, by giving them whatever they wanted. And you are going to pretend that Trump's decision based on political corruption was right, but Biden's decision based on national interest was wrong?

So being spiteful is natural interest now? So glad we have Trump 2.0 in the office.

Dont worry Biden is getting his kicks backs from this too.

What is in the interest of this nation to shut down a project that was in motion? What happens to all the material, work, and land disturbance that already happened? Biden going to make that all disappear? So glad it's in our national interest to have a bunch of half finished, deteriorating, potentially hazardous projects throughout the country. Amazing precedent this president is setting.

I guess we should look forward to more of the same. Cant wait to watch the US countryside turn into a deolated abandoned wasteland.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

It's like the Witch Doctor said, "Some get it. Some don't." Can we at least agree that there is another side of the issue that mainstream media has not represented for you to consider? I find it strange when people speak against their own interests. There are folks on this board who fancy themselves as quite the patriots, but the reality is that they believe whatever the corrupt interests tell them and do whatever they are told to do, all the while attacking those who implore them to get better information and think for themselves.

 

[volinbham]

I've yet to hear how Keystone is AGAINST our national interests.

 

[Y9 Vol]

It's like the Witch Doctor said, "Some get it. Some don't." Can we at least agree that there is another side of the issue that mainstream media has not represented for you to consider? I find it strange when people speak against their own interests. There are folks on this board who fancy themselves as quite the patriots, but the reality is that they believe whatever the corrupt interests tell them and do whatever they are told to do, all the while attacking those who implore them to get better information and think for themselves.

Oh the irony

 

[Y9 Vol]

I've yet to hear how Keystone is AGAINST our national interests.

Evidently you are not listening or can not comprehend then. VM thinks he has made his case.

 

[hog88]

Who is he? Despite all of the industry lobbying and political propaganda for it, which was little better than a pack of lies cooked up by a Canadian public relations firm, the State Department had previously decided that Keystone XL Pipeline was not in the national interest. Trump came along and pandered to the big money interests, by giving them whatever they wanted. And you are going to pretend that Trump's decision based on political corruption was right, but Biden's decision based on national interest was wrong?

How was it opposed to our national interest?

What are the biggest negatives about the project?

 

[VolStrom]

It's like the Witch Doctor said, "Some get it. Some don't." Can we at least agree that there is another side of the issue that mainstream media has not represented for you to consider? I find it strange when people speak against their own interests. There are folks on this board who fancy themselves as quite the patriots, but the reality is that they believe whatever the corrupt interests tell them and do whatever they are told to do, all the while attacking those who implore them to get better information and think for themselves.

Is this the same witch doctor (poster on here) that used to, or maybe still does, spoke about themselves in the 3rd person?

 

[Vol Main]

I've yet to hear how Keystone is AGAINST our national interests.

I've already discussed the price difference between Brent and WTI. Canadian tar sands oil is sold within the U.S. at WTI price, discounted for extra refining costs. The Canadians want to sell at the higher Brent price. When Keystone XL connects to the free trade zone refinery in Texas, all of the oil in it becomes an international market commodity, meaning that it can then be sold to mid-American refineries at higher Brent prices instead of the lower WTI prices. How is it in U.S. national interests to enable Canada to jack up the price of oil they sell to us? That would not be in U.S. national interest.

 

[Vol Main]

Is this the same witch doctor (poster on here) that used to, or maybe still does, spoke about themselves in the 3rd person?

Yep. Credit where credit is due.

 

[volinbham]

I've already discussed the price difference between Brent and WTI. Canadian tar sands oil is sold within the U.S. at WTI price, discounted for extra refining costs. The Canadians want to sell at the higher Brent price. When Keystone XL connects to the free trade zone refinery in Texas, all of the oil in it becomes an international market commodity, meaning that it can then be sold to mid-American refineries at higher Brent prices instead of the lower WTI prices. How is it in U.S. national interests to enable Canada to jack up the price of oil they sell to us? That would not be in U.S. national interest.

the supply puts downward pressure on price

even if the tar oil is an international commodity it is still less valuable pre-refinery.

 

[Vol Main]

the supply puts downward pressure on price

even if the tar oil is an international commodity it is still less valuable pre-refinery.

On whatever market it is sold, WTI or Brent, the price of tar sand oil is discounted to compensate for the extra costs of refining. That does not make it cheaper because the lower price equals the added cost of processing. So why are you confusing the issue with this? Are you confused by it? As for added supply putting downward pressure on price. Mid-American refineries already have over supply of Canadian tar sand pipeline. Will the added supply to the international market affect its prices? Probably, yes, but we could spend a few years talking about that and still not understand it. OPEC producers typically do not produce at maximum levels, in order to limit supply for the purpose of manipulating prices. The producers are seldom in complete agreement or complete compliance with their agreements. Instead of remaining forever simple, this topic gets immediately complicated.

 

[allvol123]

On whatever market it is sold, WTI or Brent, the price of tar sand oil is discounted to compensate for the extra costs of refining. That does not make it cheaper because the lower price equals the added cost of processing. So why are you confusing the issue with this? Are you confused by it? As for added supply putting downward pressure on price. Mid-American refineries already have over supply of Canadian tar sand pipeline. Will the added supply to the international market affect its prices? Probably, yes, but we could spend a few years talking about that and still not understand it.

Why does the market need the POTUS to step in?

 

[C-south]

On whatever market it is sold, WTI or Brent, the price of tar sand oil is discounted to compensate for the extra costs of refining. That does not make it cheaper because the lower price equals the added cost of processing. So why are you confusing the issue with this? Are you confused by it? As for added supply putting downward pressure on price. Mid-American refineries already have over supply of Canadian tar sand pipeline. Will the added supply to the international market affect its prices? Probably, yes, but we could spend a few years talking about that and still not understand it.

If they pay us to refine it here and it creates jobs then wtf do we care what they sell it for. Are we forced to buy it?

 

[volinbham]

On whatever market it is sold, WTI or Brent, the price of tar sand oil is discounted to compensate for the extra costs of refining. That does not make it cheaper because the lower price equals the added cost of processing. So why are you confusing the issue with this? Are you confused by it? As for added supply putting downward pressure on price. Mid-American refineries already have over supply of Canadian tar sand pipeline. Will the added supply to the international market affect its prices? Probably, yes, but we could spend a few years talking about that and still not understand it.

it is discounted to the refinery so your contention that piping it to the refinery somehow removes that discount doesn't make sense regardless of who owns the refinery

 

[BeecherVol]

Why does the market need the POTUS to step in?

Cause he has a group in his voting base he's trying to appease. This has nothing to do with deals and everything to do with politics.

 

[hog88]

I've already discussed the price difference between Brent and WTI. Canadian tar sands oil is sold within the U.S. at WTI price, discounted for extra refining costs. The Canadians want to sell at the higher Brent price. When Keystone XL connects to the free trade zone refinery in Texas, all of the oil in it becomes an international market commodity, meaning that it can then be sold to mid-American refineries at higher Brent prices instead of the lower WTI prices. How is it in U.S. national interests to enable Canada to jack up the price of oil they sell to us? That would not be in U.S. national interest.

That is the biggest pile of horse crap you have posted. The oil from the sands in Canada is a heavy high sulfur oil so it doesn't matter what the Canadians want to sell it as because it is what it is and where it goes for refining mean nothing. There is only a few refineries that can process that oil and they won't pay WTI or Brent prices for a heavy sour oil.

You just keep proving that you have no ****ing idea what you are talking about.

 

[82_VOL_83]

To sum up, Orange Man Bad M-Kay?

 

[hog88]

If they pay us to refine it here and it creates jobs then wtf do we care what they sell it for. Are we forced to buy it?

They don't pay us to refine it. Exploration gets the oil out of the ground, refineries buy that oil then refine it, they then sell it to distribution (several levels of this). Even if exploration/production, refining all the way to the pump is the same "Brand" they are still different entities.

 

[Vol Main]

it is discounted to the refinery so your contention that piping it to the refinery somehow removes that discount doesn't make sense regardless of who owns the refinery

Please read my post again, for the purpose of understanding it instead of objecting to it. I think it is simple enough to easily understand.

 

[volinbham]

That is the biggest pile of horse crap you have posted. The oil from the sands in Canada is a heavy high sulfur oil so it doesn't matter what the Canadians want to sell it as because it is what it is and where it goes for refining mean nothing. There is only a few refineries that can process that oil and they won't pay WTI or Brent prices for a heavy sour oil.

You just keep proving that you have no ****ing idea what you are talking about.

yeah, I'm having a hard time following the logic that just because it's a "free zone" refinery that they will pay more for pre-refined TS oil or somehow mix it into the supply so it gets priced like higher quality oil pre-refined.