Keystone Pipeline - a red line?

[volinbham]

Please read my post again, for the purpose of understanding it instead of objecting to it. I think it is simple enough to easily understand.

I've read it repeatedly and cannot figure out your logic - perhaps you could post some source material to support your claims.

 

[hog88]

yeah, I'm having a hard time following the logic that just because it's a "free zone" refinery that they will pay more for pre-refined TS oil or somehow mix it into the supply so it gets priced like higher quality oil pre-refined.

There is no logic or reality to it.

 

[LouderVol]

On whatever market it is sold, WTI or Brent, the price of tar sand oil is discounted to compensate for the extra costs of refining. That does not make it cheaper because the lower price equals the added cost of processing. So why are you confusing the issue with this? Are you confused by it? As for added supply putting downward pressure on price. Mid-American refineries already have over supply of Canadian tar sand pipeline. Will the added supply to the international market affect its prices? Probably, yes, but we could spend a few years talking about that and still not understand it. OPEC producers typically do not produce at maximum levels, in order to limit supply for the purpose of manipulating prices. The producers are seldom in complete agreement or complete compliance with their agreements. Instead of remaining forever simple, this topic gets immediately complicated.

Oops.

 

[McDad]

I've read it repeatedly and cannot figure out your logic - perhaps you could post some source material to support your claims.

Uh oh.

Prepare for a hissy fit.

 

[VolStrom]

If I remember correctly, wasn't this oil coming in through trains anyway? So now we get to have more potential for a train derailment and spills and have more pollution from diesel exhaust. Sounds like a great democrat plan to me.

 

[LouderVol]

If I remember correctly, wasn't this oil coming in through trains anyway? So now we get to have more potential for a train derailment and spills and have more pollution from diesel exhaust. Sounds like a great democrat plan to me.

And the rich guy with the train lines has deep connections with the Dems.

So trump bad for taking oil money but Biden good for taking the rail money.

 

[Vol Main]

Why does the market need the POTUS to step in?

By law, construction projects of foreign companies like Keystone XL Pipeline on U.S. soil require the State Department to certify its being in U.S. national interest. The project cannot go forward without that decision by the U.S. Department of State.

 

[allvol123]

By law, construction projects of foreign companies like Keystone XL Pipeline on U.S. soil require the State Department to certify its being in U.S. national interest. The project cannot go forward without that decision by the U.S. Department of State.

That didnt really answer the question. The matter is clearly open to interpretation as 2 presidents had 2 distinctly different views. Overbearing govt just stepped in.

 

[Vol Main]

If they pay us to refine it here and it creates jobs then wtf do we care what they sell it for. Are we forced to buy it?

We care wtf they sell it for because higher prices of Candian oil sold to mid-American refineries means higher prices for gas and diesel at American gas station pumps, as well as higher prices for other refined petroleum products like jet fuel. If refineries choose not to buy it, that reduces supply and inceases prices for whatever they do buy.

 

[hog88]

By law, construction projects of foreign companies like Keystone XL Pipeline on U.S. soil require the State Department to certify its being in U.S. national interest. The project cannot go forward without that decision by the U.S. Department of State.

In 2017 State decided it was in our national interest.

Keystone XL Pipeline - United States Department of State

 

[hog88]

We care wtf they sell it for because higher prices of Candian oil sold to mid-American refineries means higher prices for gas and diesel at American gas station pumps, as well as higher prices for other refined petroleum products like jet fuel.

Holy crap man why is it so hard for you to understand the commodity market and the way crude is brought and sold? Nothing in the post above is based in reality.

 

[allvol123]

We care wtf they sell it for because higher prices of Candian oil sold to mid-American refineries means higher prices for gas and diesel at American gas station pumps, as well as higher prices for other refined petroleum products like jet fuel.

So gas prices are going to go down now?

 

[C-south]

We care wtf they sell it for because higher prices of Candian oil sold to mid-American refineries means higher prices for gas and diesel at American gas station pumps, as well as higher prices for other refined petroleum products like jet fuel. If refineries choose not to buy it, that reduces supply and inceases prices for whatever they do buy.

Lol. I’m sure things will be much cheaper going forward.

 

[LouderVol]

We care wtf they sell it for because higher prices of Candian oil sold to mid-American refineries means higher prices for gas and diesel at American gas station pumps, as well as higher prices for other refined petroleum products like jet fuel. If refineries choose not to buy it, that reduces supply and inceases prices for whatever they do buy.

So they are buying the more expensive sand to do more expensive refining instead of buying cheap american stuff?

 

[utvolpj]

Generally, dark money is a stream of unreported financial contributions to political issues, campaigns, or parties. Some people actually get tax write-offs by contributing to nonprofit "educational" corporations which operate as political lobbies. That is not legal, but the IRS turns a blind eye more often than not. The money is not publicly reported, so it is a way to get around financial disclosure laws.

"Politically active nonprofits – principally 501(c)(4)s and 501(c)(6)s – have become a major force in federal elections over the last three cycles. The term "dark money" is often applied to this category of political spender because these groups do not have to disclose the sources of their funding. These organizations can receive unlimited corporate, individual, or union contributions that they do not have to make public, and though their political activity is supposed to be limited, the IRS – which has jurisdiction over these groups – by and large has done little to enforce those limits."
Political Nonprofits (Dark Money) | OpenSecrets

There you go @McDad

 

[Vol Main]

So gas prices are going to go down now?

That is not implied, because cancelling Keystone XL Pipeline merely prevents Canadian producers from increasing their prices to the international Brent price. It is currently sold at WTI prices discounted to the added costs of refining. (It costs more to refine tar sands oil than it does to refine black crude oil from Oklahoma and Texas, so the added cost of refining is deducted from the price paid for it.)

 

[allvol123]

That is not implied, because cancelling Keystone XL Pipeline merely prevents Canadian producers from increasing their prices to the international Brent price. It is currently sold at WTI prices discounted to the added costs of refining. (It costs more to refine tar sands oil than it does to refine black crude oil from Oklahoma and Texas.)

Let me answer for you. No.

 

[hog88]

That is not implied, because cancelling Keystone XL Pipeline merely prevents Canadian producers from increasing their prices to the international Brent price. It is currently sold at WTI prices discounted to the added costs of refining. (It costs more to refine tar sands oil than it does to refine black crude oil from Oklahoma and Texas.)

That is not the way it works.

The Pricing Differentials Between Brent Crude Oil and WTI

 

[Vol Main]

So they are buying the more expensive sand to do more expensive refining instead of buying cheap american stuff?

They buy both. Oil markets are an ever changing, complicated world. We do know some simple things, like the difference in prices on our domestic market and the foreign market. Domestic market or WTI oil is typically sold around five dollars a barrel less than oil on the international market.

 

[volinbham]

That is not implied, because cancelling Keystone XL Pipeline merely prevents Canadian producers from increasing their prices to the international Brent price. It is currently sold at WTI prices discounted to the added costs of refining. (It costs more to refine tar sands oil than it does to refine black crude oil from Oklahoma and Texas, so the added cost of refining is deducted from the price paid for it.)

piping it to Texas or railing it to the west coast isn't going to change this - the pipeline doesn't magically make it so Brent can be charged.

 

[Vol Main]

Let me answer for you. No.

That's right, and they will not go up, because Keystone XL Pipeline will not be built to connect Canadian tar sand oil to the international market free trade zone in Texas.

 

[volinbham]

reminds me of this

 

[hog88]

They buy both. Oil markets are an ever changing, complicated world. We do know some simple things, like the difference in prices on our domestic market and the foreign market. Domestic market or WTI oil is typically sold around five dollars a barrel less than oil on the international market.

These might help you.

WCS vs. WTI Oil Price – What's the Difference? A Big One for Canada!

The 4 Ways Crude Oil Is Classified

 

[Vol Main]

piping it to Texas or railing it to the west coast isn't going to change this - the pipeline doesn't magically make it so Brent can be charged.

"the pipeline doesn't magically make it so Brent can be charged." The opinion of oil industry experts is that it indeed does. TC Energy clearly stated that in its annual report and in its prospectus for investment in Keystone XL Pipeline. Hatching out opinions cost you nothing, but we need our opinions to be based on true facts, not on uninformed imagination.

 

[hog88]

"the pipeline doesn't magically make it so Brent can be charged." The opinion of oil industry experts is that it indeed does. TC Energy clearly stated that in its annual report and in its prospectus for investment in Keystone XL Pipeline. Hatching out opinions cost you nothing, but we need our opinions to be based on true facts, not on uninformed imagination.

Please post this report.