KY loses 8 players--will the Vols take over the East?

#176
#176
If KY is finished recruiting for this year, have they added enough players to be a factor in the SEC championship next year? I like our chances against them if this is it for their recruiting.
 
#177
#177
BasketvolsFan said:
If KY is finished recruiting for this year, have they added enough players to be a factor in the SEC championship next year? I like our chances against them if this is it for their recruiting.
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Right now their roster is..

Miller
Dodson
Liggins
Hood
Knight
Lamb
Kanter
Poole

That doesn't exactly scream SEC champions to me. Kanter may not be eligible.
 
#178
#178
Kentucky isn't done or they'd only have 8 scholarship players. they are looking to add multiple bigs if they can.
 
#180
#180
getyopopcornready said:
Who? Jones is heading to Washington and Leslie is not really a 'big'.
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i agree that Jones is not going to be a Wildcat.

with Leslie if he were on my team I'd play him at the 3 but though skinny, he does have the ability to play the 4. and really in Calipari's system he wouldn't play like a 4 anyway, he'd just have to defend them. there's a reason why before this past year where he inherited and signed bigs whose stocks were already in the first round that Calipari's DDMO hadn't produced any bigs worth mentioning. i mean right now Darius Miller is set to be their starting PF and he wouldn't be out of place in that role on any of his previous teams.

they are also after Marcus Thornton who'd fill that combo forward role in most offenses but the 4 in Cal's.
 
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#182
#182
swampy said:
i agree that Jones is not going to be a Wildcat.

with Leslie if he were on my team I'd play him at the 3 but though skinny, he does have the ability to play the 4. and really in Calipari's system he wouldn't play like a 4 anyway, he'd just have to defend them. there's a reason why before this past year where he inherited and signed bigs whose stocks were already in the first round that Calipari's DDMO hadn't produced any bigs worth mentioning. i mean right now Darius Miller is set to be their starting PF and he wouldn't be out of place in that role on any of his previous teams.

they are also after Marcus Thornton who'd fill that combo forward role in most offenses but the 4 in Cal's.
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I'm having a hard time finding any year where Cal accomplished anything more than a 2nd round exit without a force in the paint.
 
#183
#183
BasketvolsFan said:
No question they are after more players, but are they going to get them and will they get who they want?
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There's not really anymore bigs left on the board that will make much of a difference next season. If Kanter isn't eligible next season or has to go through what Deniz Kilicli had to, then UK will be a little hanicapped in the paint next season.
 
#184
#184
getyopopcornready said:
I'm having a hard time finding any year where Cal accomplished anything more than a 2nd round exit without a force in the paint.
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well Kanter definitely has the potential to be a force in the paint so there's that but really what I'm talking about is just how Calipari's DDMO really just uses one traditional big and the rest of the guys on the floor tend to be slashers and shooters.

He adapted his offense this past year because of the embarrassment of riches he signed/inherited in the frontcourt and lack of perimeter shooters. But really the way he's been operating his offense most of the time is with a center and an extra wing (hopefully a tall one) instead of a traditional PF. Even the center is just a secondary option after the guard penetrates. That's why the only draft-worthy "big" he produced in 9 years at Memphis was offensively-challenged second round pick Joey Dorsey.

Obviously we're not going to see the pure DDMO this year either as Kanter's got the kind of offensive game you just can't ignore but for their guy who is a power forward in name only Leslie or Thornton would fit well. other than them there really a lot of guys lining up to be the next Shawne Williams for Cal this year.
 
#185
#185
swampy said:
well Kanter definitely has the potential to be a force in the paint so there's that but really what I'm talking about is just how Calipari's DDMO really just uses one traditional big and the rest of the guys on the floor tend to be slashers and shooters.

He adapted his offense this past year because of the embarrassment of riches he signed/inherited in the frontcourt and lack of perimeter shooters. But really the way he's been operating his offense most of the time is with a center and an extra wing (hopefully a tall one) instead of a traditional PF. Even the center is just a secondary option after the guard penetrates. That's why the only draft-worthy "big" he produced in 9 years at Memphis was offensively-challenged second round pick Joey Dorsey.

Obviously we're not going to see the pure DDMO this year either as Kanter's got the kind of offensive game you just can't ignore but for their guy who is a power forward in name only Leslie or Thornton would fit well. other than them there really a lot of guys lining up to be the next Shawne Williams for Cal this year.
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1. Kanter is not a force defensively.

2. Tell me what Calipari accomplished at Memphis without Joey Dorsey on his roster?
 
#186
#186
swampy said:
He adapted his offense this past year because of the embarrassment of riches he signed/inherited in the frontcourt and lack of perimeter shooters. But really the way he's been operating his offense most of the time is with a center and an extra wing (hopefully a tall one) instead of a traditional PF. Even the center is just a secondary option after the guard penetrates. That's why the only draft-worthy "big" he produced in 9 years at Memphis was offensively-challenged second round pick Joey Dorsey.
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I think you're underestimating how hard it is for teams to get points in the paint against teams who have a big inside like Patteron, Cousins, Orton and Dorsey.
 
#187
#187
getyopopcornready said:
I think you're underestimating how hard it is for teams to get points in the paint against teams who have a big inside like Patteron, Cousins, Orton and Dorsey.
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i wasn't even talking about opponents trying to score on those guys. i'm talking about the number of bigs needed to run the DDMO and how they are used. Kentucky just needed the one and they've got their guy in Kanter. now they need guys who have the ability to defend opposing 4s like Leslie and Thornton.

the dearth of bigs left out there doesn't necessarily hurt them, it just will revert them back to playing more like the Memphis teams except unlike those teams you can actually run an offense through Kanter some.
 
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#188
#188
swampy said:
i wasn't even talking about opponents trying to score on those guys. i'm talking about the number of bigs needed to run the DDMO and how they are used. Kentucky just needed the one and they've got their guy in Kanter. now they need guys who have the ability to defend opposing 4s like Leslie and Thornton.

the dearth of bigs left out there doesn't necessarily hurt them, it just will revert them back to playing more like the Memphis teams except unlike those teams you can actually run an offense through Kanter some.
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You said Kanter would be a force inside and they just need one traditional big for the system to work. My point is Kanter is not a force and they will not have that big. So how is that going to work?
 
#189
#189
getyopopcornready said:
You said Kanter would be a force inside and they just need one traditional big for the system to work. My point is Kanter is not a force and they will not have that big. So how is that going to work?
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Kanter is one of the best rebounders in this class and has big enough body so he'll be able to outmuscle most of the big men he'll face. he's not going to be any of those guys you mentioned but he'll be more than serviceable.

but i'm also not saying that Kentucky won't take a step back this year. they will take a step back but provided they get either Leslie or Thornton they'll have the bodies to execute their offense and not get abused on defense.
 
#190
#190
You are absolutely correct. Until this year, his five player was not a critical piece of his offense and was used mostly as a rebounder and defensive force. Even if they get Leslie, they will be way below the talent level of this year.
 
#191
#191
If Kentucky adds Leslie or Jones, this class will be ranked a top 3 class, some say #1. It has plenty of talent, just not distributed at every position like this last years class was.

Anyone who thinks Kanter won't be a force or factor, is kidding themselves. He will give everyone all they want. (No, he's not Cousins). Seeing as how its nearly unanimous that the NCAA will pass the new eligibility legislation, the biggest hurdle is out of the way. It appears Kanter will be eligible.

Kentucky certainly will not repeat last years record or dominance. It will be a three way battle for the East, and we might just be on the short end of the stick. By no means do I see any logic in saying that we won't be in the race, however.

This team will look much more like the DDM teams at Memphis, and much less like this years team. Less rebounding and power down low, especially with foul trouble. However, we will improve behind the arc significantly and will be good defensively on the perimeter.
 
#192
#192
No one is saying KY won't be a factor next season. You are correct in saying he has signed some very talented players, but the distribution is not nearly as good as last season. They will still be talented, but will not be close to this years team. I,also, agree that they will not be nearly as dominant as this year. The race will be more wide open with KY always being a factor.
 
#193
#193
Hardwood_fanatic said:
However, we will improve behind the arc significantly
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certainly they will but how much is what we're going to have to wait and see. Knight's a good perimeter shooter but he can also be streaky. Lamb's a good midrange shooter but still needs to work on his outside game. While he's an excellent defender and good off the dribble, the reason Florida turned down legacy Poole Jr is because he can't hit the broad side of a barn. Kanter would probably be able to hit a couple if he got open looks but playing your only true big out on the perimeter would be a pretty substantial break from the DDMO.

Though the DDMO has a limited number of reads and no "plays" per se, what I'm interested to see is how Lamb handles being the backup point guard especially since he doesn't have the kind of speed necessary to be a great penetrator.
 
#194
#194
swampy said:
certainly they will but how much is what we're going to have to wait and see. Knight's a good perimeter shooter but he can also be streaky. Lamb's a good midrange shooter but still needs to work on his outside game. While he's an excellent defender and good off the dribble, the reason Florida turned down legacy Poole Jr is because he can't hit the broad side of a barn. Kanter would probably be able to hit a couple if he got open looks but playing your only true big out on the perimeter would be a pretty substantial break from the DDMO.

Though the DDMO has a limited number of reads and no "plays" per se, what I'm interested to see is how Lamb handles being the backup point guard especially since he doesn't have the kind of speed necessary to be a great penetrator.
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I'm not so sure about that assessment. Cal stated last season that if need be, Miller would play the back up point if both bledsoe and Wall were out of the game. Unless playing a team that presses all out, I don't see Miller or Liggins filling in at point for a few minutes at a time as a huge deal. I think he would rather have lamb playing off the ball than with it in his hands.

And the kid can penetrate. Perhaps not from the PG spot as you say, but he gets in the lane good enough.

As for Poole, I'm fine with Florida passing on him. The kid goes to the rim hard. And as long as Donovan continues to recruit soft players who would rather jack up three's than penetrate, I will never be worried about UF establishing supremacy in this conference.
 
#195
#195
getyopopcornready said:
Right now their roster is..

Miller
Dodson
Liggins
Hood
Knight
Lamb
Kanter
Poole

That doesn't exactly scream SEC champions to me. Kanter may not be eligible.
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FYI, though it has not been announced yet, it appears Dodson will no longer be on UK's roster. Unless something drastic changes, he is gone after this semester ends. I expect an announcement sometime after finals.
 
#196
#196
Hardwood_fanatic said:
I'm not so sure about that assessment. Cal stated last season that if need be, Miller would play the back up point if both bledsoe and Wall were out of the game. Unless playing a team that presses all out, I don't see Miller or Liggins filling in at point for a few minutes at a time as a huge deal. I think he would rather have lamb playing off the ball than with it in his hands.

And the kid can penetrate. Perhaps not from the PG spot as you say, but he gets in the lane good enough.

As for Poole, I'm fine with Florida passing on him. The kid goes to the rim hard. And as long as Donovan continues to recruit soft players who would rather jack up three's than penetrate, I will never be worried about UF establishing supremacy in this conference.
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Miller handling those duties is a little surprising to me. some of the other UK fans I've talked to have the 6'7 Miller slated to play PF right now as the recruitment of Jones/Leslie/Thornton are still unresolved.

Poole definitely fits your offense, not ours, but my point was he's going to do nothing to help your perimeter game. come to think of it without the overwhelming size inside to pressure opposing defenses UK might not even get as many open looks this year. but as far as jacking threes and not penetrating, once again it comes down to different offenses. Florida went to three tournament championship games and won two of them with guards who were "soft players who would rather jack up three's than penetrate". it'd be as relevant as my saying that I'll never worry about Kentucky basketball because y'all suck at setting screens and executing the plays your coach calls.
 
#197
#197
Hardwood_fanatic said:
FYI, though it has not been announced yet, it appears Dodson will no longer be on UK's roster. Unless something drastic changes, he is gone after this semester ends. I expect an announcement sometime after finals.
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yep. Harrellson's also not on the list but as he was the last guy off the bench on a 13 man roster in his junior year he might only be good for 5 fouls.
 
#198
#198
swampy said:
Miller handling those duties is a little surprising to me. some of the other UK fans I've talked to have the 6'7 Miller slated to play PF right now as the recruitment of Jones/Leslie/Thornton are still unresolved.

Poole definitely fits your offense, not ours, but my point was he's going to do nothing to help your perimeter game. come to think of it without the overwhelming size inside to pressure opposing defenses UK might not even get as many open looks this year. but as far as jacking threes and not penetrating, once again it comes down to different offenses. Florida went to three tournament championship games and won two of them with guards who were "soft players who would rather jack up three's than penetrate". it'd be as relevant as my saying that I'll never worry about Kentucky basketball because y'all suck at setting screens and executing the plays your coach calls.
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You will be fine at guard. Liggins, Miller, and Lamb are good enough ball handlers to get it up court when Knight is out. It's your frontcourt that I'm excited about. When Kanter is not in the game it will be open season for Harris, Hopson, Hall and Williams.
 
#199
#199
getyopopcornready said:
You will be fine at guard. Liggins, Miller, and Lamb are good enough ball handlers to get it up court when Knight is out. It's your frontcourt that I'm excited about. When Kanter is not in the game it will be open season for Harris, Hopson, Hall and Williams.
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Not so fast. Don't forget about those 3 refs you guys complain about having to play against as well. :)
 
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