Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[volinbham]

No, his delayed actions resulted in people dying, if we are being precise. But this wasn't my intent, to blame him for that. My intent is to point out that this incessant defense of Trump and offloading any responsibility to his advisors is pretty lame.

How did his delayed actions result in people dying? How many people (even roughly) contracted Covid who will not eventually contract it? (go back to the concept of flattening the curve).

While at it, what were the specific actions that were delayed that resulted in these deaths?

It's a strong claim that should be supportable with facts.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Not to sound shallow or throw shade but building immunities to this will also not happen in quarantine.

People are starting to forget why we are doing this.

First, we were flattening the curve to prevent overloading the hospitals. Now that it looks like the projections were wrong and we aren't going to overload hospitals, it's about saving lives through prevention.

We aren't going to save any lives by quarantining for 12 months waiting for a vaccine.

 

[volinbham]

As defined in Gov. Ron DeSantis’ (idiot Guv of Fl) Executive Order, essential activities include the following:

-Participating in recreational activities consistent with social distancing guidelines
-Such as walking, biking, hiking, fishing, running, swimming, taking care of pets and surfing

Does this fool understand the definition of "essential"?

Essentially not.

I believe GA reopened theirs at least a week ago for this type of stuff.

 

[Stew Cook]

How did his delayed actions result in people dying? How many people (even roughly) contracted Covid who will not eventually contract it? (go back to the concept of flattening the curve).

While at it, what were the specific actions that were delayed that resulted in these deaths?

It's a strong claim that should be supportable with facts.

If he had shut down all international air travel earlier, do you think some people would be alive today?

You can argue "facts" if you like on this, but if you doubt my assertion, then I suppose it was pointless that he eventually shut it down, as it wouldn't make any difference.

 

[volbeast33]

Act now to prevent an American epidemic | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

Luciana Borio - Wikipedia
Luciana Borio is an American physician and medical/public health administrator. She is a vice president at In-Q-Tel.[1] She previously served as Director for Medical and Biodefense Preparedness at the National Security Council,[2]

View attachment 272057

Was she advising the president? If not..... then it doesn’t matter unless you are saying that trump needs to fire dr Fauci?

 

[Ten_Titans]

As defined in Gov. Ron DeSantis’ (idiot Guv of Fl) Executive Order, essential activities include the following:

-Participating in recreational activities consistent with social distancing guidelines
-Such as walking, biking, hiking, fishing, running, swimming, taking care of pets and surfing

Does this fool understand the definition of "essential"?

Essentially not.

None of that is essential for a week long shutdown. All of that is essential for a 2 month shutdown. At least if you want people to follow your directions.

I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

How did his delayed actions result in people dying? How many people (even roughly) contracted Covid who will not eventually contract it? (go back to the concept of flattening the curve).

While at it, what were the specific actions that were delayed that resulted in these deaths?

It's a strong claim that should be supportable with facts.

no one knows, we can only assume because the month of February was spent on vacation or something like that. We do know that he played golf as the pandemic spread across America.

 

[NCFisher]

Which was another of the treatments Trump spoke of. It seems that most successful treatments with HCQ are in conjunction with zinc, and is best done early in the infection. If I read correctly, it appears to not kill the virus but stop replication, requiring the immune system to wage a battle, not a war.

If remdesivir is effective on patients with more advanced infection, the two of them could help a lot of people avoid not just intubation or death, but long-term lung damage.

Three cheers for doctors researching and prescribing the possible treatments, dosages, and patients willing to say "let's give it a try".

 

[Hunerwadel]

We could have just shot the first people who got it and that would have resulted in fewer infections and deaths.

Fewer to what point? What number would you be happy with? As I stated before we could have always freaked out more, and earlier. But unless you have some hard line of what is acceptable, vs what isnt its partisanship to argue we should have done "more".

We are reacting like we have never had sick people before."this never should have happened, why did Trump let anyone get sick?". Should we have shut down travel in December when china first reported cases, mid January when Bham started the thread? Because we can go back and play a fun game of who has been consistent on their stances to be able to claim they were right and thus Trump wrong.

When Trump told us there was 11 cases and soon to be zero or near zero and it's under control he knew there was a problem. Regardless of what the news reported or the democrats or anyone else said it was his baby. During this time the Fox Wing of the WH including Limbaugh was downplaying it as scare tactics and politicalization by the Left. Nothing but the everyday flu ranted Rush. You know Trump as well as anyone. He would listen to them before any expert or adviser. The warning signs of a serous pandemic were blaring while he fiddled.

 

[Purple Tiger]

He understands that people are done with this futile experiment of staying in their house. But for the Nancy's who are still scared you can still keep your doors locked and stay inside

 

[vols40]

I linked her Wikipedia page for you.

Once again thanks for playing. Bring credible evidence I know that doesn't help your narrative. Shutting everything down could ultimately give people like you what you wanted but at what cost? Do you think you can hurt the economic structure just enough to try and win an election and hope that a guy who doesn't even know the name of the virus can magically flip that switch? I am done with the charade. Shutting everything down is starting to seem like the wrong thing to do at evidenced by thousands of deaths now being counted as Covid 19 for coughing and sneezing. Just like hurricane Maria was it in Puerto Rico during the election year of 2018.

 

[volinbham]

If he had shut down all international air travel earlier, do you think some people would be alive today?

You can argue "facts" if you like on this, but if you doubt my assertion, then I suppose it was pointless to eventually shut it down, as it wouldn't make any difference.

No not pointless at all. I suggest you go look at the logic of flattening the curve - it was to extend the timeframe it takes for "x"% of the population to become infected. It was smoothing the infection timing to eliminate a peak that would overwhelm the HC system resulting in people dying who could have been saved if resources were available

The virus doesn't disappear from mitigation. If 100 people get infected in 1 week or 3 months the mortality of the virus remains unchanged. The only real break in that would be the emergence of a therapy or preventative but it's unlikely that a travel ban earlier would have had any appreciable difference.

TL;DR - the timing of dying may change but the total deaths essentially don't change.

 

[vols40]

PT if you are scared say you are scared. The rest of the country is giving you the middle finger.

 

[RockyTop85]

Was she advising the president? If not..... then it doesn’t matter unless you are saying that trump needs to fire dr Fauci?

She left the NSC in 2019 and was replaced with an expert on North Korea.

 

[rjd970]

Did President Trump Refer to the Coronavirus as a 'Hoax'?

President did not call the virus a Democrat hoax.

If praising China is considered a halt to WHO funding then I am in. Magically count of viruses increased 50%

Chinese epicenter Wuhan raises number of virus dead by about 50 percent

Stop listening to EL LG and others who are incompetent

So let me be clear - is there nothing the president could have done better and is part of being a leader taking responsibility for those actions?

Has he been perfect as Trump suggests?

The dems on here jumping over everything he says is infuriating. The Repubs defending everything he says is infuriating. You partisan hacks on here that refuse to objectively look at anything going on are the problem with politics today and why everything is so F’d. It’s about winning, not what is best. It’s sickening.

 

[LouderVol]

We have a right to protest ..correct .
We do not have a right to impede my movements freely in this country by intentionally blocking the roads or sidewalks . I never changed what I originally said . I also take into account natural selection , if you weigh 150 and my vehicle weighs 4000k .. I will move you . Logic over feelings .

Your car weighs 400,000lbs? Are you driving a literal tank?

Siap

 

[volinbham]

When Trump told us there was 11 cases and soon to be zero or near zero and it's under control he knew there was a problem. Regardless of what the news reported or the democrats or anyone else said it was his baby. During this time the Fox Wing of the WH including Limbaugh was downplaying it as scare tactics and politicalization by the Left. Nothing but the everyday flu ranted Rush. You know Trump as well as anyone. He would listen to them before any expert or adviser. The warning signs of a serous pandemic were blaring while he fiddled.

What should have been done, when and how would that have changed outcomes?

Should the shutdown plan have been implemented by the end of February?

 

[NCFisher]

It's dumb. I agree with a lot of his policies, but this kind of language is too incendiary.

C'mon; obviously he's not calling for armed insurrection but for citizens to protest authoritarian Dem governors.

 

[vols40]

Good one!
Let's light some farts!

Either respond intelligently to the argument, or get back to manicuring that belly lint.

Lighting Farts. Lol those were the good old days.

Belly lint.? Lol nice one

 

[GVF]

As defined in Gov. Ron DeSantis’ (idiot Guv of Fl) Executive Order, essential activities include the following:

-Participating in recreational activities consistent with social distancing guidelines
-Such as walking, biking, hiking, fishing, running, swimming, taking care of pets and surfing

Does this fool understand the definition of "essential"?

Essentially not.

Yes, he understands fully people need those things for a physically and mentally healthy life. He also understands that if you can stand in line at a store 6 feet apart, you can do things outdoors 6 feet apart.

 

[vols40]

C'mon; obviously he's not calling for armed insurrection but for citizens to protest authoritarian Dem governors.

God bless those in Michigan. I am hopeful that with better weather we see more of this. And we will call it building immunities.

FO governor Whitemer

 

[Ten_Titans]

No not pointless at all. I suggest you go look at the logic of flattening the curve - it was to extend the timeframe it takes for "x"% of the population to become infected. It was smoothing the infection timing to eliminate a peak that would overwhelm the HC system resulting in people dying who could have been saved if resources were available

The virus doesn't disappear from mitigation. If 100 people get infected in 1 week or 3 months the mortality of the virus remains unchanged. The only real break in that would be the emergence of a therapy or preventative but it's unlikely that a travel ban earlier would have had any appreciable difference.

TL;DR - the timing of dying may change but the total deaths essentially don't change.

Correct. Flattening the curve was done to save lives by making sure medical care could be provided to everyone over a longer period of time, not by limiting the number of people that get infected under the entire curve.

However, people are attempting to move the goalposts and say that we need to keep the quarantine for 1 year+ until a vaccine is avaliable and prevent infections.

I highly doubt that's going to save lives in totality.

 

[vols40]

So let me be clear - is there nothing the president could have done better and is part of being a leader taking responsibility for those actions?

Has he been perfect as Trump suggests?

The dems on here jumping over everything he says is infuriating. The Repubs defending everything he says is infuriating. You partisan hacks on here that refuse to objectively look at anything going on are the problem with politics today and why everything is so F’d. It’s about winning, not what is best. It’s sickening.

We totally agree. I believe the time for blaming is not helpful in the least. Especially when people are forced to stay in their homes. Let's get the country going again set up a process for going forward then reflect on what was done and how we have corrected it.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Just seems strange that the Nazis see him as a fellow traveler. Why is that I wonder?

are you trying to say Trump is a Nazi? lol

 

[Stew Cook]

No not pointless at all. I suggest you go look at the logic of flattening the curve - it was to extend the timeframe it takes for "x"% of the population to become infected. It was smoothing the infection timing to eliminate a peak that would overwhelm the HC system resulting in people dying who could have been saved if resources were available

The virus doesn't disappear from mitigation. If 100 people get infected in 1 week or 3 months the mortality of the virus remains unchanged. The only real break in that would be the emergence of a therapy or preventative but it's unlikely that a travel ban earlier would have had any appreciable difference.

TL;DR - the timing of dying may change but the total deaths essentially don't change.

I do believe that he suggested that millions of lives were saved by the shutdown measures. So, you are saying that he did so at just the right time and that any sooner wouldn't wouldn't have saved any lives. Or is he just listening to advisors and was wrong?

By the way, since you skipped over my other point, who gave him the idea that he has "absolute authority", and who needs to be dismissed for that little error?