Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#58,626
#58,626
volinbham said:
At least now we can do a better job of isolating the high at risk (risk from death) population and test much more quickly when spikes occur. So long as those in charge remain truly "data driven" then we should be able to put out the small fires that pop up while letting the smolder continue elsewhere.
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I'm not sure how much better we'll be at isolating those at high risk - but I fully expect the testing we have in place to change the story of brewing outbreaks from that which we saw (or didn't see) in February. That was our biggest miss by far in this whole process. The news cycle now is just rough though. So much noise that doesn't matter.
 
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#58,627
#58,627
volinbham said:
Burn out seems more likely than smash to zero (speculating). Given new cases pop everyday even during hardcore shutdowns I don't see how the smash to zero could happen.
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Smash to zero doesn't need to be and shouldn't be the goal given its social cost - just saying it would be a positive outcome of "overdoing" it.
 
#58,628
#58,628
TennTradition said:
I'm not sure how much better we'll be at isolating those at high risk - but I fully expect the testing we have in place to change the story of brewing outbreaks from that which we saw (or didn't see) in February. That was our biggest miss by far in this whole process. The news cycle now is just rough though. So much noise that doesn't matter.
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We were slow on this; particularly the nursing home situation.
 
#58,630
#58,630
volinbham said:
We were slow on this; particularly the nursing home situation.
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This was the biggest miss. Think how much more bang for the buck we couldn’t have gotten by taking a segmented approach.

I know the data was sparse but there were early indicators that could have been chased down.
 
#58,631
#58,631
kiddiedoc said:
While we are being honest, isn't it interesting that "scientists and professionals" (myself included) have explained for many years that cloth masks are ineffective at blocking viral transmission and acquisition? And, before you start going on about droplet spread, aerosolized droplets are still smaller than the filtration capabilities of cloth and similar masks by a factor of 10-40x.

Golly, if only we had thought of wearing bandanas during flu season every year. Surely we've cost 100s of thousands of American lives!

Truth is: there is NO scientific evidence that these goofy face coverings help at all, and there is legitimate concern that they may spread germs through hand contact and have other negative effects on the wearer through CO2 retention, increased viral concentration in the vapor area inside the mask, etc.
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I think the people at CNN know more about medicine than you do.
 
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#58,635
#58,635
Septic said:
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Add the World Health Organization to your list of anti-maskers:

"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland, on Monday.
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Face masks: WHO stands by recommendation to not wear them if you are not sick or not caring for someone who is sick - CNN

Educated people disagree on this. But folks like you think you know it all. It's typical liberal ivory tower thinking. You think you're smarter than everyone else. You also have an added benefit. You love to see evidence that you can control the country. Everyone wearing facemasks gives you that evidence
 
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#58,636
#58,636
volinbham said:
We were slow on this; particularly the nursing home situation.
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It isn't clear to me how you keep staff from bringing it into nursing homes when there are high infection rates in the community. But, I guess early on we weren't doing any kind of PPE in these nursing homes to protect the residents?
 
#58,637
#58,637
TennTradition said:
At the point we were in the outbreak? No, I agree.

I don't think this virus is magical. It should be able to be done with aggressive testing / contact tracing very early in an outbreak.

But that ship has sailed.
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Just like you’ll never contain a flu outbreak...these will not be contained.

Jumping points...will a successful vaccine prevent the next Coronavirus outbreak?
 
#58,638
#58,638
Sea Ray said:
Add the World Health Organization to your list of anti-maskers:



Face masks: WHO stands by recommendation to not wear them if you are not sick or not caring for someone who is sick - CNN

Educated people disagree on this. But folks like you think you know it all. It's typical liberal ivory tower thinking. You think you're smarter than everyone else. You also have an added benefit. You love to see evidence that you can control the country. Everyone wearing facemasks gives you that evidence
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I don't know the studies she is citing...but Dr. Birx on the subject:

“What we have said to people is there is clear scientific evidence now, by all the droplet experiments that happened, and that others have done, to show that a mask does prevent droplets from reaching others,” Birx said on “Fox News Sunday” when asked what she would tell people who say they have a right not to wear a mask in public.
“Out of respect for each other, as Americans that care for each other, we need to be wearing masks in public when we cannot social distance,” she said.
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Dr. Deborah Birx: ‘Make sure that you’re wearing a mask if you can’t maintain the six feet’
 
#58,640
#58,640
TennTradition said:
I don't know the studies she is citing...but Dr. Birx on the subject:
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I fail to see how this is anymore than show. It was just a few months ago when the same people saying you gotta wear that mask were waffling on whether they were at all effective at preventing spread.

Now everyone seems to be certain and if you’re not buying what they’re selling you deserve to go to hell.

It’s odd times that we live in. I keep going back to the post by @volinbham: Coronavirus has made fear the new virtue.
 
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#58,641
#58,641
#58,642
#58,642
Velo Vol said:
What's a practical, sustainable screening system to keep it out of nursing homes?
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I don't know if you can keep it out but you might be able to: 1) take steps to reduce spread once in (social distance, cleaning, etc) and 2) test more frequently to isolate those who contract it and minimize spread
 
#58,643
#58,643
DC_Vol said:
I fail to see how this is anymore than show. It was just a few months ago when the same people saying you gotta wear that mask were waffling on whether they were at all effective at preventing spread.

Now everyone seems to be certain and if you’re not buying what they’re selling you deserve to go to hell.

It’s odd times that we live in. I keep going back to the post by @volinbham: Coronavirus has made fear the new virtue.
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I think that much of the original messaging was around what a mask does to protect YOU. And the answer is short of a special respirator or contained oxygen system, it isn't going to do enough. Also, I think that they were worrying too much about what people would do instead of communicating facts. They didn't want people to ignore lockdown orders because they thought a mask would fully protect them (because it won't FULLY).

As we enter a new phase where we will be increasing contact, mask wearing as a means of slowing potential infection FROM YOU seems like a low-cost means of adding an extra layer to the defense. I won't claim to have an opinion on the science. I don't know if it says it does slow the rate that an infected person spreads the disease. Seems like a lot of mixed messages. Birx says the studies say it does. That's one data point. If it is useless, it hasn't cost me anything. So, I do it while they are telling me it helps.
 
#58,644
#58,644
allvol123 said:
If I am comprehending the term viral load correctly, then I cant see wearing a mask. Does viral load mean the amount you initially take in and does taking in an initially higher amount create a potentially more detrimental outcome?
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I want to make sure I am responding to the right quote.....I don't see that in the article doing a find/search. In what context are you referencing viral load?

I normally think about it in the context of the level of virus in an infected individual.....
 
#58,645
#58,645
TennTradition said:
It isn't clear to me how you keep staff from bringing it into nursing homes when there are high infection rates in the community. But, I guess early on we weren't doing any kind of PPE in these nursing homes to protect the residents?
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not only not using PPE but in some cases putting known infected people back in. also back to our testing issues, not detecting cases until they had a chance to spread.

I believe there's a quote from Cuomo saying it wasn't his responsibility to provide PPE to nursing homes (basically they were on their own in finding it at the time the logistics were a complete shizzshow).

I can guarantee procedures now are quite different than then and had they started earlier we could protect more. I don't think you can keep it out but you can reduce the spread once in.
 
#58,646
#58,646
TennTradition said:
I think that much of the original messaging was around what a mask does to protect YOU. And the answer is short of a special respirator or contained oxygen system, it isn't going to do enough. Also, I think that they were worrying too much about what people would do instead of communicating facts. They didn't want people to ignore lockdown orders because they thought a mask would fully protect them (because it won't FULLY).

As we enter a new phase where we will be increasing contact, mask wearing as a means of slowing potential infection FROM YOU seems like a low-cost means of adding an extra layer to the defense. I won't claim to have an opinion on the science. I don't know if it says it does slow the rate that an infected person spreads the disease. Seems like a lot of mixed messages. Birx says the studies say it does. That's one data point. If it is useless, it hasn't cost me anything. So, I do it while they are telling me it helps.
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Yep. I don't know the effectiveness but don't mind slapping one on before I go in the grocery store.
 
#58,648
#58,648
TennTradition said:
I want to make sure I am responding to the right quote.....I don't see that in the article doing a find/search. In what context are you referencing viral load?

I normally think about it in the context of the level of virus in an infected individual.....
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I thought viral load meant intital intake. Maybe I am mistaken.

Either way, is there a potentially different scenario versus inhaling 5(however you measure it) versus inhaling 500. Does that create vastly different potential outcomes?
 
#58,649
#58,649
Sea Ray said:
Add the World Health Organization to your list of anti-maskers:



Face masks: WHO stands by recommendation to not wear them if you are not sick or not caring for someone who is sick - CNN

Educated people disagree on this. But folks like you think you know it all. It's typical liberal ivory tower thinking. You think you're smarter than everyone else. You also have an added benefit. You love to see evidence that you can control the country. Everyone wearing facemasks gives you that evidence
Click to expand...

So wait, you trumpers have the W.H.O. recommendations back on the menu as a reputable source? And one from two months ago?

Spare me your indignation, it requires low levels of common sense to acknowledge that a physical barrier is better than no physical barrier. Clearly, something that escapes you...

Cracks me up to watch otherwise intelligent people lose bowel and bladder control in order to foist such a moronic position that masks don't help prevent the spread of germs.
 
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