Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#91,037
#91,037
SpaceCoastVol said:
I'm not sure how that will work. It will be ugly no matter what. I'm not saying I will personally sue, but I guarantee you that there will be suits.
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There have been similar suits in the past. Mandatory vaccines have been upheld in pretty much every instance where a prevailing interest exists (ie required tetanus shots for a demolition crew).
 
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#91,039
#91,039
bamawriter said:
There have been similar suits in the past. Mandatory vaccines have been upheld in pretty much every instance where a prevailing interest exists (ie rewuired tetanus shots for a demolition crew).
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Pretty sure this is a different animal, but we'll see
 
#91,042
#91,042
As we discuss what an individual's responsibility to society's health is, I came across something interesting prompted by the "Ripe for Fascism" thread. This excerpt is particularly germane to the the discussion (bold by me).

[F]ascism redrew the frontiers between private and public, sharply diminishing what had once been untouchably private. It changed the practice of citizenship from the enjoyment of constitutional rights and duties to participation in mass ceremonies of affirmation and conformity. It reconfigured relations between the individual and the collectivity, so that an individual had no rights outside community interest. It expanded the powers of the executive—party and state—in a bid for total control. Finally, it unleashed aggressive emotions hitherto known in Europe only during war or social revolution.

I am not claiming vaccination is Fascism by design or default. But the discussion of where my rights end and the interests of the community begin is relatable to Fascism.
 
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#91,043
#91,043
bamawriter said:
I don't know enough about your industry to really have an opinion. I can only go by the case law I've read.
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Again, I think this is a different animal because there is no requirement for a flu vaccine. Unless the general population can be require by law to have this, (and THAT is a frightening idea) then I don't really see how a company can require it. But the legal system is completely corrupt, so there's that.

Let's take your example though. Tetanus vaccinations for a crew that runs a high risk of being cut by rusty metal in their job. The company that employs those workers probably has insurance on them and a tried and tested vaccine makes sense from the standpoint that their insurance costs could go up as a result of this type of infection. You could make the same argument about the ChinaFlu vaccine except that it has zero track record, and zero proof that it actually does anything to reduce/eliminate exposure or level of the disease itself. It is proven to be over 99% survivable with no vaccine. Not sure you can say that about tetanus. When there is history and proof of effectiveness/safety, I'll consider it.
 
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#91,044
#91,044
McDad said:
As we discuss what an individual's responsibility to society's health is, I came across something interesting prompted by the "Ripe for Fascism" thread. This excerpt is particularly germane to the the discussion (bold by me).

[F]ascism redrew the frontiers between private and public, sharply diminishing what had once been untouchably private. It changed the practice of citizenship from the enjoyment of constitutional rights and duties to participation in mass ceremonies of affirmation and conformity. It reconfigured relations between the individual and the collectivity, so that an individual had no rights outside community interest. It expanded the powers of the executive—party and state—in a bid for total control. Finally, it unleashed aggressive emotions hitherto known in Europe only during war or social revolution.

I am not claiming vaccination is Fascism by design or default. But the discussion of where my right's end and the interests of the community begin are relatable to Fascism.
Click to expand...
this^^^^^^this^^^^^^this^^^^^^this^^^^^^this^^^^^^this^^^^^^this^^^^^^this^^^^^^this^^^^^^this^^^^^^
 
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#91,045
#91,045
SpaceCoastVol said:
Again, I think this is a different animal because there is no requirement for a flu vaccine. Unless the general population can be require by law to have this, (and THAT is a frightening idea) then I don't really see how a company can require it. But the legal system is completely corrupt, so there's that.

Let's take your example though. Tetanus vaccinations for a crew that runs a high risk of being cut by rusty metal in their job. The company that employs those workers probably has insurance on them and a tried and tested vaccine makes sense from the standpoint that their insurance costs could go up as a result of this type of infection. You could make the same argument about the ChinaFlu vaccine except that it has zero track record, and zero proof that it actually does anything to reduce/eliminate exposure or level of the disease itself. It is proven to be over 99% survivable with no vaccine. Not sure you can say that about tetanus. When there is history and proof of effectiveness/safety, I'll consider it.
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Those are all good, practical arguments. I don't know that they'll hold up in court. And I think your first point is a non-starter. A lawyer would tell you to avoid making a "I'm not required to do X so I can't be required to do Y" argument. That argument can be nullified by requiring that you do X.
 
#91,046
#91,046
bamawriter said:
Those are all good, practical arguments. I don't know that they'll hold up in court. And I think your first point is a non-starter. A lawyer would tell you to avoid making a "I'm not required to do X so I can't be required to do Y" argument. That argument can be nullified by requiring that you do X.
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I think it will be quite difficult to force the entire country to be vaccinated. There are millions of people that want nothing to do with this until there is proof of it's safety and effectiveness. If I am required to get it, then I will demand proof that every person I come into contact with... every passenger.... has it as well. If I am being forced to have this thrust upon me, then I have a right to know if you did... or more importantly... didn't, as well. My rights don't end where yours begin and I think that is the point of all this. #mybodymychoice, right? There is no proof that these vaccines stop the spread of the ChinaBug, and until it does, and is PROVEN safe, I'll pass. Just answer this: Why were the manufacturers given specific immunity (ironic) from culpability from harm? That scares the hell out of me frankly.

Oh. And I HOPE that they would try the 'e'rrybody has to get a flu shot before X'... I would love to watch that furball as well. And that vaccine has a PROVEN safety record and people are afraid of it.
 
#91,047
#91,047
McDad said:
As we discuss what an individual's responsibility to society's health is, I came across something interesting prompted by the "Ripe for Fascism" thread. This excerpt is particularly germane to the the discussion (bold by me).

[F]ascism redrew the frontiers between private and public, sharply diminishing what had once been untouchably private. It changed the practice of citizenship from the enjoyment of constitutional rights and duties to participation in mass ceremonies of affirmation and conformity. It reconfigured relations between the individual and the collectivity, so that an individual had no rights outside community interest. It expanded the powers of the executive—party and state—in a bid for total control. Finally, it unleashed aggressive emotions hitherto known in Europe only during war or social revolution.

I am not claiming vaccination is Fascism by design or default. But the discussion of where my right's end and the interests of the community begin are relatable to Fascism.
Click to expand...

A couple of people just wet their pants.
 
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