Look... we needed Gruden

[Orange_Crush]

I don't know about them being the talk of college football, that may be a little much. However there is no doubt that they are far more relevant and being talked about more than the Vols, which is highly embarrassing.

And now, we get to the real talking points for a large segment of VolNation. "We are down. I am embarrassed. Let me vent some irrational garbage to feel better."

 

[Orange_Crush]

It's Valentines week so he had to bring this up again!

lol:

Love FEST 2013! IMO

Tennesseeduke

 

[VOL6479]

Volnation, I really like Butch Jones. Dooley turned me off almost as soon as he arrived on campus. While the majority of you were praising "Showergate," and "Looking for Rommel" and "pick up the phone and call me" I was telling you that Dooley was auditioning for a TV gig as our head coach. And I didn't like it. And that's exactly what he did.

Butch was always behind the 8-ball. He actually walked into a worse situation than Dooley (which is saying something in a big way). He almost created his next problem. He did what he had to do - he went after elite talent. Problem is, he didn't land the elite talent. I've said for awhile this 2013 class would define his tenure. He swung for the fences (which makes me like him), but he didn't connect. Strike.

Daj is absolutely right - it starts with talent. That's why we needed Gruden so bad, and the CryptKeeper and Booger dropped the ball. I said at the time Hart still had the power to screw the pooch. He did. Ego. BMOC. Hart couldn't handle Gruden being Big Man on Campus. And it will haunt us for a decade.

CBJ still has a chance. He has to lean on our offensive line. He has to restore confidence to the defense. He has to go +2 in the talent column, and that is his record. I fear though he was +2 in the Big East, but the SEC is the best of best. Second tier these days is Steve Spurrier. Let that sink in. Even Muschamp is proving he is worthy of the league. Franklin has the nation talking about Vandy --- VANDY!

Folks, we needed Gruden. It wasn't a pipe dream, but we had to roll out the red carpet, absolutely. The CryptKeeper failed. We've got to hope Coach Butch Jones is +2. I want him to be +2. He's still got a chance, but he's got to take some big scalps 2013.

I don't think with only 31 days you could say the 2013 class would define his tenure. That would be next years class IMO.

 

[Ez_Vol]

We have the fanbase of a little league softball team. Pathetic.

 

[supersmo18]

CBJ has an Nfl caliber OL with yrs of experience, and 2 QBs that have been on campus. So how did Dooley have more to work with than CBJ?

You need to re-read my post, or, learn how to read, first.

 

[jhen713]

Oskie...He was disagreeing with that.

You're right. Coach Jones has alot more to work with.

I don't know that I agree with this. Dooley Had a pretty good D coming in that he made worse. We just lost our top 4 pass catchers. Dooley had 2 sr wrs that had great hands and 2 stud freshmen in Hunter and Rodgers. QB sitiuation is about the same. Jones has to come in adn change the image of a program taht has fallen into mediocracy over the past 5 years. Not saying Jones sitiuation is worse, but it's not better either.

 

[YorkVol]

Volnation, I really like Butch Jones. Dooley turned me off almost as soon as he arrived on campus. While the majority of you were praising "Showergate," and "Looking for Rommel" and "pick up the phone and call me" I was telling you that Dooley was auditioning for a TV gig as our head coach. And I didn't like it. And that's exactly what he did.

Butch was always behind the 8-ball. He actually walked into a worse situation than Dooley (which is saying something in a big way). He almost created his next problem. He did what he had to do - he went after elite talent. Problem is, he didn't land the elite talent. I've said for awhile this 2013 class would define his tenure. He swung for the fences (which makes me like him), but he didn't connect. Strike.

Daj is absolutely right - it starts with talent. That's why we needed Gruden so bad, and the CryptKeeper and Booger dropped the ball. I said at the time Hart still had the power to screw the pooch. He did. Ego. BMOC. Hart couldn't handle Gruden being Big Man on Campus. And it will haunt us for a decade.

CBJ still has a chance. He has to lean on our offensive line. He has to restore confidence to the defense. He has to go +2 in the talent column, and that is his record. I fear though he was +2 in the Big East, but the SEC is the best of best. Second tier these days is Steve Spurrier. Let that sink in. Even Muschamp is proving he is worthy of the league. Franklin has the nation talking about Vandy --- VANDY!

Folks, we needed Gruden. It wasn't a pipe dream, but we had to roll out the red carpet, absolutely. The CryptKeeper failed. We've got to hope Coach Butch Jones is +2. I want him to be +2. He's still got a chance, but he's got to take some big scalps 2013.

Let's examine this for a minute.

First, everyone said Gruden would not be available until after his last MNF show on Dec 17th. So, if he was to come the announcement would have happened on Tuesday the 18th. Give him and university a couple of days for the staff to get hired and call it Thursday the 20th before they are all announced. At this point, Butch and his staff have already been on the road talking with prospects directly from the 9th until the 16th.

Second, given that Gruden would most likely have brought in a staff of mostly NFL coaches and he, himself, has limited college recruiting experience, it would have been a steep learning curve for him and his staff. Could he have handled this part? Sure, he's a smart guy, so it would only have taken a couple of days for him and his staff to be up to speed on the rules. So, lets say by Saturday the 22nd, they are set and able to take calls.

Of course, we all remember that 17 Dec to Jan 3rd is a dead period where they can't call recruits directly, nor visit them. Instead they are tweeting out requests for phone calls, or other indirect contacts.

Third, does he know who to contact? Is he just going to go down the ESPN 100 and start tweeting people? I'm sure he has a method for evaluating players, but does it work for HS Seniors? Will they fit his system? Again, Gruden is a smart and experienced coach, but this process has to happen and in this case it is happening on the fly as they figure things out. Butch and staff had a system in place and knew who they wanted before he moved from Cincinnati. He changed many of the targets, but he already knew who fit and who didn't.

Forth, jump to Jan 11th, the first real time Gruden and team can go and visit recruits. They get 24 days to lock in as many of their current commits as well as any new targets. Can they do it? Possibly the celebrity status and super bowl ring will sway a few. But, you can just as easily say that the other coaches would be in the ear of those recruits and their moms saying all the things people said against Gruden on this board. So, in my mind it is a 50/50 split. Gruden's celebrity could have swayed every blue chip recruit out there, but it is just as likely that we end up with exactly the same class.

Fifth, jump to Spring training. Would he be able to coach in 2 hours what he used to take all day coaching? Does he realize he has to teach fundamentals. What about dealing with homesickness, girl friend problems, failing courses, failing piss tests and so forth. He's been dealing with grown men who are professionals. Can his methods translate successfully to college kids?

Finally, jump to the next season. Gruden's offense is complex and would have taken some time to implement. Can our boys handle it? Sure, eventually. But would we be patient and give him the first year or two to get it working? Could we have handled another losing season in 2013?

I think Gruden would have been fun and I think on most of these issues, he would have succeeded eventually. But, the transition from pro to college, especially when he hadn't been at this level in decades, would have taken longer than we would want to wait. We would have either run him out of town, or he would have bolted for greener pastures within a year or two.

So, in the end, I'm glad we got a college coach with a record of success. I'm excited that he sees this as a dream job and is willing to put in the work needed to make it successful soon.

Off my soap box.

 

[sjt18]

By most reports powers associated with UT pursued Gruden. Every time they met his expectations, he raised them again. He was looking for the place UT could not go and found it.

The OP is wrong on many, many levels not the least of which was "needing" Gruden. Gruden would have had a "splash" effect. He probably gets a bunch of high caliber recruits in this class. But there is NO guarantee that what he does well as a coach translates to the college game. Mike Sherman was a better NFL coach. He went to TAM where talent is more abundant than UT. He FAILED and was FIRED.

It is every bit as much a possibility that Gruden would not have wanted to put in the hours and work required to win at the college level as it is there would have been any sustained positive effect from his "star power".

I don't know if Jones is the guy to bring UT back or not. He was behind with this recruiting class and faces a couple of tough years where he has to prove he can get it done in the SEC. But the completely deluded hangers on like the OP need to just let it go. Nobody screwed it up. Gruden didn't want the job and kept pushing UT to give him a reason to say "no"... and there's NO GUARANTEE that he would have been any better than a guy who has proven he can win at the college level.

 

[utvolpj]

nicely done YorkVol. I fully expected to see a " Hallelujah! Holy ****! Where's the Tylenol?" at the end though

 

[YorkVol]

nicely done YorkVol. I fully expected to see a " Hallelujah! Holy ****! Where's the Tylenol?" at the end though

lol:

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Gruden would have been an elite recruiter on name only. The number 1 requirement for a coaching job at TN should be that you are an elite recruiter. If you are mediocre or below GTFO. It's won with the Jimmy and Joe's, ask Meyer if you don't think so. It would be the number 1 requirement to coach at UT. So far we have struck out in that department in a very big way. I am still amazed what Dooley did to us, damn I hate him, I believe he was working for the pay off from the minute he set foot on campus, such a pompous a hole.

Why is this so hard to understand? The Faildozer is rolling over everyone who said this thread was ridiculous a priori.

There is no doubt if CBJ lands one of the elite talent he went after - everything in the off-season is looking up.

I said this when he was hired - he had to show something special this class. He was a hire with question marks (Dooley beat him convincingly), and this class was going to be his first stage to deliver. He didn't. I like his moxie; I like that he swung for the fences. But, we needed a sacrifice fly minimum, and we struck out.

It's far from over. Next year is most certainly crunchtime - I agree with everyone who has said so. Next year, unfortunately, has become harder for CBJ.

I do hope CBJ can do it. But if the CryptKeeper's ego prevented Gruden, then he should go even before the epic fail of the Booger-Eater.

@Fiji - Captain Hygiene was definitely working for his buy-out after the KY loss. There can be no doubt there.

 

[Orange_Crush]

By most reports powers associated with UT pursued Gruden. Every time they met his expectations, he raised them again. He was looking for the place UT could not go and found it.

The OP is wrong on many, many levels not the least of which was "needing" Gruden. Gruden would have had a "splash" effect. He probably gets a bunch of high caliber recruits in this class. But there is NO guarantee that what he does well as a coach translates to the college game. Mike Sherman was a better NFL coach. He went to TAM where talent is more abundant than UT. He FAILED and was FIRED.

It is every bit as much a possibility that Gruden would not have wanted to put in the hours and work required to win at the college level as it is there would have been any sustained positive effect from his "star power".

I don't know if Jones is the guy to bring UT back or not. He was behind with this recruiting class and faces a couple of tough years where he has to prove he can get it done in the SEC. But the completely deluded hangers on like the OP need to just let it go. Nobody screwed it up. Gruden didn't want the job and kept pushing UT to give him a reason to say "no"... and there's NO GUARANTEE that he would have been any better than a guy who has proven he can win at the college level.

Another nice post sjt...

The scary thing is the post that I quoted above that said it doesn't matter if he could coach at the college level..

And it was supported by likes.

Beats me...

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

@YorkVol - nice post.

I think you underestimate the Gruden factor. I think at Tennessee, Gruden is an elite recruiter without doubt. Elite recruits would seek HIM out. Right now, that is far, far more important than Xs and Os if we want to compete for the SEC.

I think we have a great Xs and Os coach (and a MAJOR upgrade over Fool-ey). However, Saban, Spurrier, Richt, Les Miles (staff), hell even Muschamp and Franklin - great Xs and Os coaches and elite recruiters. We've got to have both. He helps his cause immensely landing one of the big three.

 

[sjt18]

All we "know" is that Gruden was pursued. It is strongly indicated that monied interests were willing to meet his demands at several points until he changed them again.

Ultimately... it appears that Gruden never really wanted to coach anywhere at any level. That's probably the bottom line. Each time someone offered (UT or anyone else), he likely considered whether it was worth it to him... and said "no".

In addition to the points Yorkvol made, CFB coaching is just a hard job. The hours are long. The competition is stiff. There are no rules in place like the NFL to assure parity in talent. Your livelihood is often dependent on getting some prima donna 17 year old to choose you... often with no more reasoning applied than he gives to his prom date. I mean can you really imagine Gruden telling Michael Taylor that he had a "dream" about him?

In spite of the obvious maturity and well-reasoned arguments of someone who calls people "CryptKeeper" and "Booger-Eater"... there is NO proof Gruden ever wanted the job, gave a price that would actually bring him, or would have been successful if hired.

 

[KCVolLaw]

@YorkVol - nice post.

I think you underestimate the Gruden factor. I think at Tennessee, Gruden is an elite recruiter without doubt. Elite recruits would seek HIM out. Right now, that is far, far more important than Xs and Os if we want to compete for the SEC.

I think we have a great Xs and Os coach (and a MAJOR upgrade over Fool-ey). However, Saban, Spurrier, Richt, Les Miles (staff), hell even Muschamp and Franklin - great Xs and Os coaches and elite recruiters. We've got to have both. He helps his cause immensely landing one of the big three.

Lose the Van Halen screen name before you jinx the band and they break up.

 

[Oskie Volum]

Oskie...He was disagreeing with that.

You're right. Coach Jones has alot more to work with.

Oh sorry. I pressed quote on the wrong one. Thanks for catching for me. I would like to know more on that topic though. Other than a couple of TN coaches that may be on here bashing him anyway.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Why is this so hard to understand? The Faildozer is rolling over everyone who said this thread was ridiculous a priori.

People did not dismiss it a priori. They dismissed it after reading the collection of fail that was bundled together in the OP.

There is no doubt if CBJ lands one of the elite talent he went after - everything in the off-season is looking up.

He landed several elite talents that he went after. Your opinion per talent is not the deciding factor per his success.

I said this when he was hired - he had to show something special this class.

You were wrong then too.

He was a hire with question marks (Dooley beat him convincingly), and this class was going to be his first stage to deliver.

It is not his first stage to deliver. He's won at two stages before now.

CDD beat him with a fully-loaded UT team, before the injuries on offense that crippled them, and that would probably have given most in the SEC all they could handle.

Speaking of stages, I just re-watched the Cinci-Vandy bowl game. CBJ has more SEC wins than Gruden.

He didn't. I like his moxie; I like that he swung for the fences. But, we needed a sacrifice fly minimum, and we struck out.

You're not a baseball umpire are you? Struck out? Really? From high forties to low twenties, flipping several highly regarded recruits, bringing in two elite-11 QBs, etc, in three weeks recruiting time?

Really? Struck out?

lol (I don't say that a priori. I say that because the statement is ignorant and ignores reality.)

It's far from over. Next year is most certainly crunchtime - I agree with everyone who has said so. Next year, unfortunately, has become harder for CBJ.

Wasn't it you that said CBJ's career here would be defined by his first recruiting class? Now it's far from over?

I do hope CBJ can do it. But if the CryptKeeper's ego prevented Gruden, then he should go even before the epic fail of the Booger-Eater.

Go do some investigative journalism, package together some evidence about what went down behind the scenes, and I'll carry the torches for you. Or... We could float some baseless rumors about you and then ask your boss to fire you over it.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

All we "know" is that Gruden was pursued. It is strongly indicated that monied interests were willing to meet his demands at several points until he changed them again.

This is not the story at all. What was clear is Hart was among the last to approach Gruden, when he should have been among the first.

Ultimately... it appears that Gruden never really wanted to coach anywhere at any level. That's probably the bottom line. Each time someone offered (UT or anyone else), he likely considered whether it was worth it to him... and said "no".

Admitted possibility. But again, what is not clear is the UTAD made Gruden priority #1.

In addition to the points Yorkvol made, CFB coaching is just a hard job. The hours are long. The competition is stiff. There are no rules in place like the NFL to assure parity in talent. Your livelihood is often dependent on getting some prima donna 17 year old to choose you... often with no more reasoning applied than he gives to his prom date. I mean can you really imagine Gruden telling Michael Taylor that he had a "dream" about him?

Gruden would be an elite recruiter at TN. Anyone suggesting otherwise is simply playing ostrich.

In spite of the obvious maturity and well-reasoned arguments of someone who calls people "CryptKeeper" and "Booger-Eater"... there is NO proof Gruden ever wanted the job, gave a price that would actually bring him, or would have been successful if hired.

If I had time to make gifs I would and thereby demonstrate my true maturity on an anonymous fan board.

See above. Suggesting the Grude would not be an elite recruiter at Tennessee is insulting to our institution, IMHO.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Also, the band is a perfect example.

If you fire David Lee Roth, do you make Sammy Haggar your absolute priority or do you take a chance on Gary Cherone???????????

 

[Oskie Volum]

Regarding your "where did Dooley break relationships with HS coaches?" I can tell you with virtually every significant HS program in and around Nashville. Had virtually no presence over here. Heard the Brentwood Academy coach squirm out of coming right out and saying that Dooley didn't have anything to do with his school/players and pretty much sucked. If he's not willing to work with and stay close to his instate schools/coaches where it should be a slamdunk, why the hell does anyone think he would do so in Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, California, etc?

I get you pt but let's be honest TN talent as a whole isn't going to bring UT back. Was Dooley not doing well in GA? I know Norcross seemed to be a school that he had been doing well at. Frankly I'd take thier talent pipeline over Nashbille schools. IMHO the had to build relationships and focus on areas he could. Not enough time in the world to do it. Now if he builds GA, the Carolina's, Virginia, Florida, etc and gets great talent and builds UT back then he wouldn't have to do jack in the state. In state kids would want to come. The fact they don't know isn't Dooley's problem but previous admins. He tried Miss and it bit him in the butt early. Wasn't him or just the way that state is?

When Dooley was hired with less than 2 weeks to NSD and he brought with him the ability to tap into the GA talent. Proved it with sealing up both hunter and DR. Who weren't committed to Kiffin. CBJ had 2 months and all he could do is try to mend in state issues because he had nothing else to offer. Will it help for next yr sure, but Dooley had been working on top talent for '14 until he got the hint he was no longer going to be here. I love how people accuse him of ruining things when they forced him out since before OCT. Which of us on here would keep going into people's houses and tell them to play for UT with a straight face when he knows he is fired??? No one.

It's like the Aggies that whined about sherman not going into the recruits house after he was fired over the phone while sitting in the kids drive-way. :ermm:

 

[KCVolLaw]

Also, the band is a perfect example.

If you fire David Lee Roth, do you make Sammy Haggar your absolute priority or do you take a chance on Gary Cherone???????????

Sammy Haggar was never coming man

 

[photovol]

But, But, But, we have the best coaching staff in America. Butch will coach em 2*'s up to be 6*'s...
sadly we are left with what we have....we'll take em sticks to the gun fight and poke em in the eye and if that doesn't work we'll just be the Volsintears
Go Vowels

 

[EnglewoodVol]

Volnation, I really like Butch Jones. Dooley turned me off almost as soon as he arrived on campus. While the majority of you were praising "Showergate," and "Looking for Rommel" and "pick up the phone and call me" I was telling you that Dooley was auditioning for a TV gig as our head coach. And I didn't like it. And that's exactly what he did.

Butch was always behind the 8-ball. He actually walked into a worse situation than Dooley (which is saying something in a big way). He almost created his next problem. He did what he had to do - he went after elite talent. Problem is, he didn't land the elite talent. I've said for awhile this 2013 class would define his tenure. He swung for the fences (which makes me like him), but he didn't connect. Strike.

Daj is absolutely right - it starts with talent. That's why we needed Gruden so bad, and the CryptKeeper and Booger dropped the ball. I said at the time Hart still had the power to screw the pooch. He did. Ego. BMOC. Hart couldn't handle Gruden being Big Man on Campus. And it will haunt us for a decade.

CBJ still has a chance. He has to lean on our offensive line. He has to restore confidence to the defense. He has to go +2 in the talent column, and that is his record. I fear though he was +2 in the Big East, but the SEC is the best of best. Second tier these days is Steve Spurrier. Let that sink in. Even Muschamp is proving he is worthy of the league. Franklin has the nation talking about Vandy --- VANDY!

Folks, we needed Gruden. It wasn't a pipe dream, but we had to roll out the red carpet, absolutely. The CryptKeeper failed. We've got to hope Coach Butch Jones is +2. I want him to be +2. He's still got a chance, but he's got to take some big scalps 2013.

I'm comforted by the fact that just because you say something doesn't make it true.

 

[SolidRockGolf]

This is why we should have an age limit on members.

 

[k-town_king]

I get you pt but let's be honest TN talent as a whole isn't going to bring UT back. Was Dooley not doing well in GA? I know Norcross seemed to be a school that he had been doing well at. Frankly I'd take thier talent pipeline over Nashbille schools. IMHO the had to build relationships and focus on areas he could. Not enough time in the world to do it. Now if he builds GA, the Carolina's, Virginia, Florida, etc and gets great talent and builds UT back then he wouldn't have to do jack in the state. In state kids would want to come. The fact they don't know isn't Dooley's problem but previous admins. He tried Miss and it bit him in the butt early. Wasn't him or just the way that state is?

When Dooley was hired with less than 2 weeks to NSD and he brought with him the ability to tap into the GA talent. Proved it with sealing up both hunter and DR. Who weren't committed to Kiffin. CBJ had 2 months and all he could do is try to mend in state issues because he had nothing else to offer. Will it help for next yr sure, but Dooley had been working on top talent for '14 until he got the hint he was no longer going to be here. I love how people accuse him of ruining things when they forced him out since before OCT. Which of us on here would keep going into people's houses and tell them to play for UT with a straight face when he knows he is fired??? No one.

It's like the Aggies that whined about sherman not going into the recruits house after he was fired over the phone while sitting in the kids drive-way. :ermm:

If we get Bell, Elder, Herron, Harris and Ramsey this year that helps get us back. If we get Hurd who Dooley also slipped on it helps us get back. So he was not working on top 14 talent. Dooley did a horrible job all around recruiting and coaching. The only reason Dooley got those recruits the first class is BECAUSE OF KIFFIN. Stop trying to make Dooley look better. You still are making up stuff to make him look better. How do Saban and Meyer have time to build relationships with TN coaches while not ignoring those other states?