Manning / Brady -

#51
#51
5 MVPs.

You'd take Brady, but I'd take Belichick over any coach Peyton's had and Peyton would have his 3 or 4 Super Bowl wins. Watching Belichick against Dungy was as painful as watching Spurrier coach circles around Phil.

QB ratings for playoffs:
Brady 87.5
Manning 89.2
and, incidentally, Montana 95.6 (over 100 before his KC days brought the numbers down)

If I recall correctly, Brady had two nice drives that produced game-winning field goals for two Super Bowl wins, and two complete sputters with the game on the line vs the Giants (both times). (And, incidentally, if Super Bowl wins make you the best, then Eli is greater than Brady based on beating him twice in the Super Bowl -- which is absolute nonsense.)

Most talented offense since 2007? Only because Peyton made it so. It's Eric Decker for goodness sakes. I know they're all young, but none of these guys were on the map before Peyton showed up. Yesterday, you saw their "talent". Every last one of them looked like they were wearing Seahawk players as backpacks. They never got open. (And the offensive line got whipped.)

Moreno is serviceable at best. Peyton's not had a great running back since Edgerrin James. (I've got hopes for Montee, but we shall see.)

And, no, Manning doesn't get a pass. The first int was terrible, a few of the other throws were almost as bad as Brady was against the Broncos.
 
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#52
#52
OP I'd like to first guide you through one source NFL.com that will admit superbowl wins are not a determining factor in how great a QB is on an individual basis. Check out the 49ers under NFL.com and look at the top 5 most overrated players ever to wear the uniform...number 5 is Joe Montana on that list. Personally I take nothing away from the man, he was very very good. Many will tell you they think he is the GOAT, many for the same reason as the Brady homers....winning the big one, many times. However here are some interesting things to think on...When Manning went down for the entire season with Indy, Indy started the season 0-13. When Brady went down for the entire season they won 12 games that season, with Matt Cassel. So, just as Joe was put into a heck of a scheme to fit his ability, the same is true with Brady. Just like Joe was under a mastermind where the league first saw the West Coast offense with short dump offs and quick releases...Oh Bill in NE has an amazing system. Now look at the defenses they won the superbowl with...you said he led a bunch of missfits...but you had them ranked as the number 1,2, and 6 defense in the league with superbowl wins in NE. The year he broke the TD record, he broke it with Randy Moss. They're are several subjective things to look at and study for why you can still consider Manning better than Brady. The most significant to me is look at the MVP status....Without Manning his teams don't win near as many games. Without Brady, the Pats have and will win.

*honorable mention comment - was also discovered that Ol' Bill cheated too. I'm sure that didn't help Brady any in those playoff runs.
 
#53
#53
If super bowl wins is the criteria to determine the greatest, then neither Manning or Brady is the greatest. That would belong to Bradshaw...if super bowl wins are the only criteria.
 
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#56
#56
Aerie Vol said:
Switch Peyton to Belichick's Pats team for his entire career and he would hold at least 4 rings, maybe 5 or 6 by now. Brady may have gotten one with the Colts.

Belichick made Brady what he is. John Fox lost that game for Peyton last night. Broncos totally out-coached in nearly every phase of the game. Darth Bill would've put Carrol in his place, and I'm no fan of his.

AV
Click to expand...

Silly.
 
#58
#58
CTVolsfan14 said:
Just wondering cause I'm curious. I know I'm going to get killed for this, but I reallyhave to ask. I'm a diehard Vols / Patriots fan. I love Peyton and Timmy Tommy Brady equally probably as much as anyone. I like to think because of that I'm pretty unbaised when it comes to this argument.. but To people who think Peyton is the greatet ever, why? cause he wore orange?

Was last night Peytons fault? Absolutely not. But he still had 3 pro bowl caliber recievers.. a pro bowl caiber tight end. a running back who will get a nice 4 year deal somewhere in FA.. and he laid a "duck" in the big one. Seattle had the better team.. but irregaurdless. If Rodger, Brady, or even frieken Romo played like that last night they get crucified.. Peyton gets the free pass.. why?
The worst part of the game to me as i was not even surprised to see peyton struggle so much. Tom Brady missed 2 throws in the AFC title and that STUNNED me. I saw Tom Brady take a band of misfits to 13 wins and I saw Peyton (With phenom. stats) have the most talented offense in the league since 07 pats play horrendously.


SO FINALLY I ASK - why do my vol fans so strongly believe Peyton is better then Brady? Is it the stats? As a patriot vol fan.. I'm taking Tom.. 100 out of 100 times. Peyton is the GREATEST regular season qb ever.. but that isnt whats most important.. ask Dan marino.

and to you, if the SB race ends 3-1 brady, (i think its likely atleast one of them wins again), how do youjustify Peyton over Brady?

Just to be clear.. this isnt about last night. Seattle dominated, period. This is comparing Brady from 2000-present to Manning 99-present.
just curious.. sorry for the length.:peace2:
Click to expand...


Nothing is free in this world, if he gets a pass, it's because he earned it.:hi:
 
#59
#59
BearCat204 said:
Not sure how you can argue that Brady is money when it comes to Super Bowl performances. Montana is up there too, but he had many more HOF weapons at his disposal.
Click to expand...

Montana actually only had one HOF weapon at his disposal Jerry Rice, and that was just 2 of his Super Bowls. People seem to think Montana played with 10 HOFers, it was only 3.

Ronnie Lott for all 4.
Fred Dean for his first 2.
Jerry Rice for his last 2.

He did have a top 5 coach for 3 of them, but Montana was flawless in the biggest game.
 
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#60
#60
pastorvol said:
If super bowl wins is the criteria to determine the greatest, then neither Manning or Brady is the greatest. That would belong to Bradshaw...if super bowl wins are the only criteria.
Click to expand...

Bradshaw and Montana both have 4 rings. Bradshaw doesn't even get considered by most people as the GOAT because he dosn't have great stats, but Montana does. I'm afraid that Manning will fall short in this argument unless he wins his second. If you look at the Superbowl winners most of the time the team with the best defense usually wins the game. You can't go by Superbowl wins alone in determining the GOAT, you have to look at the totality of regualar season, playoffs and Superbowls played in and won. Therefore, I would have to put Montana and Brady at the top of the list with others looking up. Manning needs to win one more and I believe he will go down as the GOAT. JMO
 
#62
#62
BadJerry20 said:
Montana actually only had one HOF weapon at his disposal Jerry Rice, and that was just 2 of his Super Bowls. People seem to think Montana played with 10 HOFers, it was only 3.

Ronnie Lott for all 4.
Fred Dean for his first 2.
Jerry Rice for his last 2.

He did have a top 5 coach for 3 of them, but Montana was flawless in the biggest game.
Click to expand...
A strong argument for Clark, Taylor, and Craig can be made as far as HOF. I believe Taylor and Craig will get in one day.
 
#64
#64
beneVOLence said:
Bradshaw and Montana both have 4 rings. Bradshaw doesn't even get considered by most people as the GOAT because he dosn't have great stats, but Montana does. I'm afraid that Manning will fall short in this argument unless he wins his second. If you look at the Superbowl winners most of the time the team with the best defense usually wins the game. You can't go by Superbowl wins alone in determining the GOAT, you have to look at the totality of regualar season, playoffs and Superbowls played in and won. Therefore, I would have to put Montana and Brady at the top of the list with others looking up. Manning needs to win one more and I believe he will go down as the GOAT. JMO
Click to expand...

Personally I don't think he will ever unseat Montana.

Montana was just as clutch as it gets, and he was the definition of relaxed. He's the guy that on the game winning drive against the Bengals in Super Bowl 23 that came into the huddle and in the middle of all that drama says "Hey I just saw John Candy over there."
 
#65
#65
BearCat204 said:
A strong argument for Clark, Taylor, and Craig can be made as far as HOF. I believe Taylor and Craig will get in one day.
Click to expand...

Craig might and should IMO. Taylor won't, 3 seasons over 750 yards 2 of which were over 1000, wont get him in. He had a pretty short career as well.
 
#67
#67
again taking nothing away from Montana...the man was cool and collective, but as far as being the talent that Marino, Elway, Manning, and such are...talent wise he is not in that same category. The West Coast offense with one of the greatest coaches ever and stellar defenses had a lot to help Montana get them rings as well. From a talent standpoint he's not the greatest 49er QB...Steven Young has that title.
 
#68
#68
VolsSportsFan said:
Personally I don't think he will ever unseat Montana.

Montana was just as clutch as it gets, and he was the definition of relaxed. He's the guy that on the game winning drive against the Bengals in Super Bowl 23 that came into the huddle and in the middle of all that drama says "Hey I just saw John Candy over there."
Click to expand...

At the time I wonder what his teammates really thought when he said that? I bet the initial reaction wasn't oh look how calm he is, probably more like WTF. Lol
 
#69
#69
topdog4tn said:
again taking nothing away from Montana...the man was cool and collective, but as far as being the talent that Marino, Elway, Manning, and such are...talent wise he is not in that same category. The West Coast offense with one of the greatest coaches ever and stellar defenses had a lot to help Montana get them rings as well. From a talent standpoint he's not the greatest 49er QB...Steven Young has that title.
Click to expand...

If you're going pure talent Montana is way down the list, and you could argue Randall Cunningham is top 3-5. Talent alone does not=the Goat.
 
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#70
#70
Some of the responses on radio and the boards are ridiculous.
This was the all-time NFL record setting offense. And everyone is now acting like, no big deal. Not Peyton's fault. They weren't ready to play. The opening play saftey was a pretty solid indicator.

The int for a TD should have never been thrown. Watch the replay and Peyton knew the hit was coming. He had his eyes closed. He is scared to take a sack, which of course would have actually helped his team in that spot.
 
#71
#71
and superbowls alone don't equal the GOAT is what a many are trying to explain here. You got to have a team...you cannot deny the fact that Montana had better teams, and so has Brady...than the like of Manning and Marino. The superowl Manning did get he had a much improved defense from years past.
 
#72
#72
If anything, this game should be a pretty strong indicator of why Brady's early SBs shouldn't be the only deciding factor in the argument of him vs Manning.

Brady's D was superb in those SB wins and he was just so-so -- in the games since, where the D hasn't been as stellar and he's shouldered more of the responsibility, he's played downright pedestrian and mostly came up with performances like Peyton did last night (Giants SBs, AFC championships past two seasons) -- I mean the guy only threw one TD all postseason.

To win a SB is a complete team-based feat, and to my recollection, more often than not the team with a suffocating D has been the victor. In fact, all the multiple SB winning QBs I can think of all had amazing defenses (Bradshaw, Montana, Brady).

EDIT with this link provided for context:
GO FIGURE: No. 1 offenses' Super Bowl records smothered by top defenses' big game history | Star Tribune
 
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#73
#73
Interesting to note the biggest blowout in Super Bowl history, featured the #1 scoring offense vs the #1 scoring defense. The d got blasted.
 
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#74
#74
topdog4tn said:
and superbowls alone don't equal the GOAT is what a many are trying to explain here. You got to have a team...you cannot deny the fact that Montana had better teams, and so has Brady...than the like of Manning and Marino. The superowl Manning did get he had a much improved defense from years past.
Click to expand...

Its not about Super Bowl wins, my stance has and always will be the same. It's regular season+playoffs+super bowl performance, Joe wins. It's the same reason I consider MJ the basketball Goat. They both were flawless in title games.
 
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