Maybe the problem isn't with Jay Graham, Tee Martin, Vonn Bell...

#251
#251
hog88 said:
1- Staff will have an orange flavor - NO!!! Hell Fl State has more of an orange tint than we do.
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if they don't want to be here he can't force them. He has hired a couple former Vols for his staff though (just in case you missed it)
 
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#253
#253
utvolpj said:
if they don't want to be here he can't force them. He has hired a couple former Vols for his staff though (just in case you missed it)
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Your right, but something appears to be amiss since they don't want to be here.

Could it be they just don't want to take a ride on a sinking ship?
 
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#254
#254
hog88 said:
Your right, but something appears to be amiss since they don't want to be here.

Could it be they just don't want to take a ride on a sinking ship?
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there have only been 2 and one probably wasn't even serious with the effort. I don't see how anyone can make the leap to this leading to impending doom for UT football
 
#255
#255
hog88 said:
Your right, but something appears to be amiss since they don't want to be here.

Could it be they just don't want to take a ride on a sinking ship?
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It could be...

It could also be several of a million different possibilities.
 
#256
#256
utvolpj said:
there have only been 2 and one probably wasn't even serious with the effort. I don't see how anyone can make the leap to this leading to impending doom for UT football
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I want to believe, trust me I do. I want CBJ to win and win big, be here for the next 20 years running a power house program.

He just hasn't given me anything to believe in yet. So far it's just been words, words that have not rang true.

Also if he is hell bent on installing the read option, running QB offense, I think he will fall flat on his face.
 
#257
#257
hog88 said:
He just hasn't given me anything to believe in yet. So far it's just been words, words that have not rang true.
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what was he supposed to be doing? He can't go win any games right now. He can't get practice started and put the players in pads. He had trouble mounting a serious recruiting effort because of the stink bomb set off around the country by the last staff. He hasn't had the opportunity to do anything and people are already knocking him. It's insane and ridiculous
 
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#258
#258
utvolpj said:
what was he supposed to be doing? He can't go win any games right now. He can't get practice started and put the players in pads. He had trouble mounting a serious recruiting effort because of the stink bomb set off around the country by the last staff. He hasn't had the opportunity to do anything and people are already knocking him. It's insane and ridiculous
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Just reading the smoke signals. Time will tell, I hope to hell that I'm wrong and he brings us back to the promise land.
 
#259
#259
champyvol said:
no i just don't like stupid statements like best staff in the country and changed attitude. talk is talk show it. to me it is just garbage talk untill you prove it. you don't usually hear big time coaches talk like this. it sounds like kiffin honestly. also this is just my opinion some people love to hear a coach talk like this.
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I guess if he was as smart as you, he would know exactly what to say to please all of these people who are impossible to please. This is about as ridiculous as anything I have ever heard. There is NOTHING he could say that would please people like you, and as the new head coach of UT he can't give a bunch of no comments. I think he did a better than passable job of recruiting given the timing and what he walked into. Dooley obviously pissed off the in-state schools and local kids that would otherwise be a lock to go to UT.
Also, based on what I read, they offered to raise Graham's pay to 300,000. Seems reasonable to me. Maybe the budget wouldn't allow more. We just don't know. I know this: I neither played at or attended UT, but I have been a Vol fan my whole life. Given the opportunity and if the pay was close, I would rather be at UT than anywhere in the country. No way would I choose Kiffin and USC or FSU and Jimbo over UT. Don't really know why Tee and Jay chose elsewhere. May never know. Somehow, though, I find it hard to believe that it is Butch's fault. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. But Butch isn't responsible for the current mess at UT. I say he deserves a fair shot at fixing it. So far, everything I read and see (outside of baseless opinions of this board) are positive. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. :peace2:
 
#260
#260
#1Volfaninmo said:
I guess if he was as smart as you, he would know exactly what to say to please all of these people who are impossible to please. This is about as ridiculous as anything I have ever heard. There is NOTHING he could say that would please people like you, and as the new head coach of UT he can't give a bunch of no comments. I think he did a better than passable job of recruiting given the timing and what he walked into. Dooley obviously pissed off the in-state schools and local kids that would otherwise be a lock to go to UT.
Also, based on what I read, they offered to raise Graham's pay to 300,000. Seems reasonable to me. Maybe the budget wouldn't allow more. We just don't know. I know this: I neither played at or attended UT, but I have been a Vol fan my whole life. Given the opportunity and if the pay was close, I would rather be at UT than anywhere in the country. No way would I choose Kiffin and USC or FSU and Jimbo over UT. Don't really know why Tee and Jay chose elsewhere. May never know. Somehow, though, I find it hard to believe that it is Butch's fault. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. But Butch isn't responsible for the current mess at UT. I say he deserves a fair shot at fixing it. So far, everything I read and see (outside of baseless opinions of this board) are positive. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. :peace2:
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i agree with most of what you are saying. pay is close i'm the same way i would be parked in knoxville. didn't say it was jones fault, i don't think anybody knows. i just hope he did everything he could to keep him. the only thing we disagree on is you don't jack up anticipation saying you are going to bring the best staff in the country and hire cincy's. i'm sorry that is a downer. i also disagree with recruiting it was not good, but alot of that wasn't on him. next year he does the same in recruiting might as well make a change. also outside of this board most thought dooley was doing great till his 3rd year. time will tell all. hope he is as good as his talk.
 
#261
#261
champyvol said:
i agree with most of what you are saying. pay is close i'm the same way i would be parked in knoxville. didn't say it was jones fault, i don't think anybody knows. i just hope he did everything he could to keep him. the only thing we disagree on is you don't jack up anticipation saying you are going to bring the best staff in the country and hire cincy's. i'm sorry that is a downer. i also disagree with recruiting it was not good, but alot of that wasn't on him. next year he does the same in recruiting might as well make a change. also outside of this board most thought dooley was doing great till his 3rd year. time will tell all. hope he is as good as his talk.
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Short of bringing in Rich Rod, Urban Meyer and the head coach at Oregon as coordinators, he may very well have hired the best staff in the nation to come here and install his system and perform the rebuild that he envisions.

They have been together for years. They have won together everywhere they've been. They know what he wants and how he wants it.

The whole "best staff" judgment is such an objective thing, it's a bit pointless.
 
#262
#262
Orange_Crush said:
Short of bringing in Rich Rod, Urban Meyer and the head coach at Oregon as coordinators, he may very well have hired the best staff in the nation to come here and install his system and perform the rebuild that he envisions.

They have been together for years. They have won together everywhere they've been. They know what he wants and how he wants it.

The whole "best staff" judgment is such an objective thing, it's a bit pointless.
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ok still trying to be good so let's just say most fans were not expecting cincy's staff when he said that. maybe he should have picked his words alittle better. more like you explained it. honestly i was expecting some major recruiters, more than thigpen.
 
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#263
#263
champyvol said:
ok still trying to be good so let's just say most fans were not expecting cincy's staff when he said that. maybe he should have picked his words alittle better. more like you explained it. honestly i was expecting some major recruiters, more than thigpen.
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I don't fault you for your expectations. That the danger in making a statement built on such a subjective premise. It is what it is. Due to previous success, I have great hopes. But as we've both agreed, only time will tell.

:hi:
 
#264
#264
Orange_Crush said:
I don't fault you for your expectations. That the danger in making a statement built on such a subjective premise. It is what it is. Due to previous success, I have great hopes. But as we've both agreed, only time will tell.

:hi:
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true that. i want some wins.
 
#265
#265
hog88 said:
I really want to jump on the Butch train but so far I'm having a hard time justifying the ticket.

1- Staff will have an orange flavor - NO!!! Hell Fl State has more of an orange tint than we do.
2- Best staff in he country - NO!!! Unless Cincy just had them hidden away.

Yes he has only been here a short time but so far nothing he has said has panned out. I also have a problem with the idea of us moving to a spread option O. Not going to win the SEC running that offense without a Tebow or Newton behind center.
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First off, I don't buy this we need Orange flavored guys to be competitive. How many on Saban/Miles/Spurriers/Kelly's staff are alumnus of their respective schools? Few, if any. Yet, Volnation wants to inseminate everything we do with people who played here. Why? Just because someone has worn orange does not make them uniquely qualified for a position as coach. If that was the case, every staff in America would be full up with former UT players and coaches. The truth is, contrary to what most want to believe, assistant coaches are largely interchangeable within a reasonable range. What you are looking for is a team of coaches who can work together and all pull in the same direction, within the same system.

It isn't like Graham had THE secret to how to run the ball. Coaching running backs is about instilling and repeating sound fundamentals. Those principles are basically the same they have been for decades.

My basic premise is this: we are paying a head coach to assemble and be responsible for a coaching staff that will ultimately be his greatest asset or greatest liability. I will defer judgment to him, because it is his head on the chopping block should he choose poorly. Recruiting and coaching isn't about skin color, or where you attended school, it is about a unique set of personality traits and drive.
 
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#266
#266
oregonvol said:
...maybe it's the guy in charge? I like alot of the stuff Butch Jones says, but you have to wonder when all these guys say their heart is here but choose to go elsewhere as a "business decision"...they've seen this program up close, maybe Jones isn't what we want to believe he is. Maybe there's a reason he can only get mid major coaches or guys no one else wants for his staff (and has to give them huge raises to do so)?Maybe there's a reason he can't sign any of the top recruits who visited? Maybe, when you see things close-up, you see no progress being made.
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Yeah, I mean why would Jay want to better his career. Why would he want to work at a job with no chance of moving up the ladder. He probably wants to be the stereotypical black cattle rancher (recruiter) and that would be his position for the next 35 years or until he dies.
 
#267
#267
Yea most people on here wouldnt take a 50,000 to 100,000 raise at thier job just because they have been there a long time and feel obligated. Yea dream on I don't care if I played at UT donated to UT loved UT bled UT. For enough money I would jump ship in a heartbeat, and better my retirment. Remember the economy is in the tank and prices are only going to go up from here on out. Yea why on earth would he want a job where he makes more money to store away in the bank for his kids and grand kids.....Some on this board are not very smart at all.
 
#268
#268
EastTN said:
Yea most people on here wouldnt take a 50,000 to 100,000 raise at thier job just because they have been there a long time and feel obligated. Yea dream on I don't care if I played at UT donated to UT loved UT bled UT. For enough money I would jump ship in a heartbeat, and better my retirment. Remember the economy is in the tank and prices are only going to go up from here on out. Yea why on earth would he want a job where he makes more money to store away in the bank for his kids and grand kids.....Some on this board are not very smart at all.
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According to most reports we offered to match his FSU offer.

8 jobs in 13 years..and we had his services for 15 months...sounds about right. In most professions that kind of hopping around would give a prospective employer pause.
 
#269
#269
The man had 31 days to recruit, cut him some slack. The problem is instability. Dooley had no business here and the word from the recruits since he left confirms that. Butch Jones at least has the local talent looking toward Knoxville, and he is an up tempo guy. He is a worker and I like him so far. Let's blindly support him till he gives us a good reason to get rid of him. No since in trying to predict failure. He can't force assistants to stay this one is on JG not CBJ.
 
#270
#270
CBJ made Cincy a winning team... He took over an in one month turned a recruiting class that was ranked in the 40s and turned it into a class in the 20s. He didn't lose any recruits were had committed and he got 12 guys to change their mind and come here. He didn't lost Vonn Bell. Dooley didn't recruit anyone the last few month because he knew he was gone. The fact Bell and others even considered coming here shows he can do his job. Winning at Cincy shows he can coach. Give the guy a year at least before you jump on his back. We got better players with him in one month of work than I had expected we would have got with Dooley having a couple years to talk to these guys. He is already working on the next 2 classes and has some major names already saying UT is in the top of their lists.
 
#271
#271
Its funny how just a week ago I was being bashed for calling out the fan base for being so miserable. Smh

At the end of the day imho...we don't know if he left cause of more money, if he just frankly just didn't see this new staff bettering him and would grow better under Fisher and Sanders, wanted the RC position and saw he would be better off somewhere else, etc. My problem is with the higher ups at this pt. Cheek can be a problem for sure but the guy does more than just UT Football. Hart is the one I'm getting more concerned with at this pt. If the issues weren't fixed Hart shouldn't have fired Dooley, so anything that is still around from when he walked in is all on him to fix. CBJ needs to be able to be just HC and not worry about any of the backoffice AD crap.
 
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