Maybe the problem isn't with Jay Graham, Tee Martin, Vonn Bell...

#301
#301
Jay was the only holdover and maybe the other guys didnt make him feel welcome. Maybe it was just a money thing, plus he played with TEE and Sanders was his coach. That said, there is something wrong about T and Jay coaching together at a place other than UT. One wonders exactly what the problem over there ( UT) is. Something is not right. Losing Jay will hurt the team this year and next. We should raid the Bama and Auburn staffs and hire their best recruiters. Our money is as good as theirs.
 
#302
#302
JACK8254 said:
Jay was the only holdover and maybe the other guys didnt make him feel welcome. Maybe it was just a money thing, plus he played with TEE and Sanders was his coach. That said, there is something wrong about T and Jay coaching together at a place other than UT. One wonders exactly what the problem over there ( UT) is. Something is not right. Losing Jay will hurt the team this year and next. We should raid the Bama and Auburn staffs and hire their best recruiters. Our money is as good as theirs.
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Martin is coaching at USC, Graham is going to FSU. that is pretty far apart. Also I think they only overlapped at UT for one year in 96 Martin's first year and Grahams's last so doubt they got to close.
 
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#303
#303
JACK8254 said:
Jay was the only holdover and maybe the other guys didnt make him feel welcome. Maybe it was just a money thing, plus he played with TEE and Sanders was his coach. That said, there is something wrong about T and Jay coaching together at a place other than UT. One wonders exactly what the problem over there ( UT) is. Something is not right. Losing Jay will hurt the team this year and next. We should raid the Bama and Auburn staffs and hire their best recruiters. Our money is as good as theirs.
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One opinion is that JG's feelings were hurt because Butch offered Tee 400k (to no avail, of course), and that burn made FSU all the more attractive.

As for raiding other staffs - it only works if it works (see Sunseri, Sal).
 
#304
#304
KBVol said:
Yeah unlike you .....I'm actually pulling for the guy to do well. Go freakin figure.
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I'm not asking if you want him to do well. I'm asking if you think he will. After 5 posts of trying to explain the difference to you, though, I'm beginning to think you're too dense to understand it.

Some people seriously have reading comprehension issues. Everyone on this site, aside from fans of other teams, wants Tennessee to do well.
 
#306
#306
soda23 said:
So what you really meant is that Jay Graham can't recruit ?
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The conclusion you're drawing doesn't even make sense. If you're suggesting he "can't recruit," but agree that he was the best recruiter on this staff, then we are completely screwed.
 
#308
#308
VKAman said:
I'm not asking if you want him to do well. I'm asking if you think he will. After 5 posts of trying to explain the difference to you, though, I'm beginning to think you're too dense to understand it.

Some people seriously have reading comprehension issues. Everyone on this site, aside from fans of other teams, wants Tennessee to do well.
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Typically "hell yeah I do think he'll take us to a BCS bowl" means ... Wait for it... Yes, I do think he'll take us to a BCS bowl. And I'm dense. Geez.
 
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#309
#309
KBVol said:
Typically "hell yeah I do think he'll take us to a BCS bowl" means ... Wait for it... Yes, I do think he'll take us to a BCS bowl. And I'm dense. Geez.
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Remind me which of your posts I quoted again. Oh, right, it was the one after that.

Just when I thought you had finally learned how to read, you follow it up with yet another "I'm rooting for him" post. Maybe after 5 more of those, you'll finally realize that how hard you're cheering for him is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
 
#311
#311
ChiroVol said:
This thread is toxic garbage.
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Which is why all the "best" like VKAman have shown up to "contribute" to it.

Just remember when you see him and a few others post here that they pretend to be "rational" but aren't. They draw an opinion early then argue as if that opinion were already established fact. So it makes them hostile when you point out to them that they're pov is not "true"... at least not yet. To them, their opinion IS already true. No evidence is needed other than it being their declaration of what IS. Their egos are just that large... and they are just that blind to it.
 
#312
#312
I do not know if given time to do his own recruiting Jones will succeed at getting enough good players to UT to win. Even if you are his strongest supporter there is absolutely nothing in his background that proves he will. IMO, his success rises and falls on that. (FWIW, neither Freeze nor Sumlin had highly rated recruiting classes either before taking SEC jobs).

Jones has a good track record of developing players. He seems to be a well above average game day coach. The latter was definitely not true of Dooley. But that won't be enough in the SEC like it has been for him elsewhere.

Contrary to the opinions of most here, I think Jones has to win some games this year... including one or two he "shouldn't" win. He has experience on the OL and at RB. He has experience and reasonably good depth on D except LB. He has no experience but does have talent at WR and QB. But if you look at the roster in total, this will be his best roster of the first 3 years considering both talent and experience. This past class was pretty critical to "early success". He needed guys that could be ready to fill big roles in '14. According to the recruiting svcs, he didn't get them. He needs a GREAT, not good, '14 class to have much of a chance of surviving.

I honestly do not believe a coach that does not have early success will survive more than 3 years at UT. IMO, he has to look like he's competing for the East at some point this fall and get a good bowl game. The next year and maybe two are going to be more difficult.

On the good side... the '13 Vols will be by far and away the most talented team he has ever coached. If he's the right guy, he could shock alot of people. If he's not... we'll know this December.
 
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#313
#313
Good synopsis, sjt.

I concur on the importance of the recruiting. No guarantee that CBJ will get it done, but, he recruited better at Cincy than CBK and now that CBK is in the big leagues at ND he is lighting it up.
 
#314
#314
sjt18 said:
Which is why all the "best" like VKAman have shown up to "contribute" to it.

Just remember when you see him and a few others post here that they pretend to be "rational" but aren't. They draw an opinion early then argue as if that opinion were already established fact. So it makes them hostile when you point out to them that they're pov is not "true"... at least not yet. To them, their opinion IS already true. No evidence is needed other than it being their declaration of what IS. Their egos are just that large... and they are just that blind to it.
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And some "rational" people like sjt can have all the evidence in the world that Derek Dooley sucks but still need him to be around for like 15 years before they realize it.
 
#315
#315
Oh by the way, sjt, I remember you talking up Jones based on his huge win over a "better" West Virginia team. Since you tend to disappear when proven completely wrong, I'm still waiting on an answer to my question of when exactly that happened...
 
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#316
#316
sjt18 said:
I do not know if given time to do his own recruiting Jones will succeed at getting enough good players to UT to win. Even if you are his strongest supporter there is absolutely nothing in his background that proves he will. IMO, his success rises and falls on that. (FWIW, neither Freeze nor Sumlin had highly rated recruiting classes either before taking SEC jobs).

Jones has a good track record of developing players. He seems to be a well above average game day coach. The latter was definitely not true of Dooley. But that won't be enough in the SEC like it has been for him elsewhere.

Contrary to the opinions of most here, I think Jones has to win some games this year... including one or two he "shouldn't" win. He has experience on the OL and at RB. He has experience and reasonably good depth on D except LB. He has no experience but does have talent at WR and QB. But if you look at the roster in total, this will be his best roster of the first 3 years considering both talent and experience. This past class was pretty critical to "early success". He needed guys that could be ready to fill big roles in '14. According to the recruiting svcs, he didn't get them. He needs a GREAT, not good, '14 class to have much of a chance of surviving.

I honestly do not believe a coach that does not have early success will survive more than 3 years at UT. IMO, he has to look like he's competing for the East at some point this fall and get a good bowl game. The next year and maybe two are going to be more difficult.

On the good side... the '13 Vols will be by far and away the most talented team he has ever coached. If he's the right guy, he could shock alot of people. If he's not... we'll know this December.
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Will our '13 schedule really be a fair assessment?:unsure:
 
#317
#317
sjt18 said:
Which is why all the "best" like VKAman have shown up to "contribute" to it.

Just remember when you see him and a few others post here that they pretend to be "rational" but aren't. They draw an opinion early then argue as if that opinion were already established fact. So it makes them hostile when you point out to them that they're pov is not "true"... at least not yet. To them, their opinion IS already true. No evidence is needed other than it being their declaration of what IS. Their egos are just that large... and they are just that blind to it.
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people can say the same thing about you bro. opinions are opinions that is it. rational people would have to say butch is off to a rocky start. if he is to blame is all up to opinion.:salute:
 
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#318
#318
they are likely leaving to make a lot more money somewhere else. UT is broke and can't pay market value.
 
#319
#319
VKAman said:
Oh by the way, sjt, I remember you talking up Jones based on his huge win over a "better" West Virginia team. Since you tend to disappear when proven completely wrong, I'm still waiting on an answer to my question of when exactly that happened...
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He's not one that will own it when he says something stupid, which happens frequently.
 
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#321
#321
VolunteerTitan3 said:
Will our '13 schedule really be a fair assessment?:unsure:
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It's a tough schedule, but I get that the personnel losses coupled with the rigors of the conference schedule alone will make 2014 tougher to have a breakout season than 2013. The coaches are smart enough to know what they've got and there's a good chance that if they don't think they have the weapons to win big in 2015 we will see some combination of rats jumping off the sinking ship and coaches tanking it on the recruiting trail. Same thing happened with Dooley's staff and six months ago 75% or more of the board was all about how hard working that bunch was. CBJ absolutely has to capitalize on the legacies and in-state talent and take a top 5-level class in 2014 or the proverbial goose is cooked.
 
#323
#323
oregonvol said:
I never said he wasn't the answer. But I think warning signs need to be recognized and questions need to be asked. Unlike the Doolovers with their "wait until the first game", "wait until the season's over", "wait until he has all his recruits", etc. silliness, I believe in making evaluations at every step along the way. Otherwise, why even post here?

After a poor recruiting class, an inability to sign any top notch assistants, and now your best recruiter leaving, you have to wonder about Butch Jones' ability to rebuild and compete in the SEC.
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What in the world are you talking about? "Warning signs" you have to be kidding me. "Poor recruiting class" logic is totally unrealistic. For 31 days I think CBJ did pretty well epically considering what we have done as a program the last several years! "Top notch assistants" is another ignorant comment. He got the assistants that knows his program and not "top notch assistants" that come and go with no loyalty to Tennessee or CBJ. I guess Saban is a terrible coach because he lost three assistants this year. "Best recruiter leaving" comment is another uninformed opinion. Nobody on volnation knows why Graham left. Why do you automatically assume the worst?

With all that said, how does your evaluations help the Tennessee program? Suppose everything you said is true, CBJ IS NOT LEAVING, period. He and his staff will be on the sidelines come next fall. I've got a great idea ...Give the man a chance before you start dumping!!! Some of you "sports experts" and supposed Vol fans really amaze me'
 
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#324
#324
VolunteerTitan3 said:
Will our '13 schedule really be a fair assessment?:unsure:
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First of all it would be for any coah. Even DD because Oregon the Florida to get the thing started is just wrong like it was in 2010. Everyone knows we'll get killed like 55-20 at Oregon. But the trick is how are we expected to come back across country, get prepared, then get our confidence up to play in the swamp.
 
#325
#325
GoVols15 said:
"Top notch assistants" is another ignorant comment. He got the assistants that knows his program and not "top notch assistants" that come and go with no loyalty to Tennessee or CBJ. I guess Saban is a terrible coach because he lost three assistants this year.
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Every single coach that left Bama got promoted either to a coordinator job or to the NFL.
 
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