Maybe the problem isn't with Jay Graham, Tee Martin, Vonn Bell...

#201
#201
JOEY'S ALL VOL !!! said:
That's my whole point, until anything is proven one way or another then it's going to be debated on a message board and there is absolutely nothing unfair about it, that's what message boards are for.

If I posted that Butch Jones is the man for the job and is going to take TN back to the top, would you proclaim that is unfair ? No, but you should, after all he hasn't proven it yet.
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You call it debating, I call it undermining, you choose to infer negatives, I choose to see positives.

You won't change my mind and I won't change yours, let's just agree to disagree :hi:.
 
#202
#202
oregonvol said:
...maybe it's the guy in charge? I like alot of the stuff Butch Jones says, but you have to wonder when all these guys say their heart is here but choose to go elsewhere as a "business decision"...they've seen this program up close, maybe Jones isn't what we want to believe he is. Maybe there's a reason he can only get mid major coaches or guys no one else wants for his staff (and has to give them huge raises to do so)?Maybe there's a reason he can't sign any of the top recruits who visited? Maybe, when you see things close-up, you see no progress being made.
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You are kidding right? The man only had 31 days to bring in a class and he has never coached a game for us but you think he is the problem?
 
#203
#203
What I find most worrisome is that we are going into likely the hardest schedule in NCAA football next year with a new coach.
Hate to say it but even coach nick satan would have a tough time with this team and this schedule. That being said how many vol fans are " going to the mattresses" and pulling out pitchforks mid season.
Gonna be a bumpy ride this year no matter who is in charge. How bout we just act like real fans and cheer on this team and this coach and know that a miracle season isn't coming, but a rebuild is underway.
Just a thought
 
#204
#204
johndoevol said:
You call it debating, I call it undermining, you choose to infer negatives, I choose to see positives.

You won't change my mind and I won't change yours, let's just agree to disagree :hi:.
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Show me where I inferred anything negative, hell show me where I inferred anything at all.

We'll have to disagree because you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.
 
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#206
#206
Orange_Crush said:
I actually really like you, man. Post as you wish. I'm not the post Nazi. I was just making some points.

:)
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i'm good i really want be excited just not there yet. i liked jay to sucks he left. just hope jones goes and hires a proven stud recruiter and not manning. i've got a bottle of whiskey on hand incase that happens.lol
 
#207
#207
Butch Jones did not run Graham off, Graham chose to leave the program simple as that he is a grown man and can do what he chooses. Again Jones did not run Graham off. Not dissing Graham he did his best while at UT, but name me one big name RB he got to commit to UT?
 
#208
#208
Buddr said:
Butch Jones did not run Graham off, Graham chose to leave the program simple as that he is a grown man and can do what he chooses. Again Jones did not run Graham off. Not dissing Graham he did his best while at UT, but name me one big name RB he got to commit to UT?
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Jabo Lee?
 
#209
#209
Too many posts to read, so I'm just skipping ahead and apologize if this has already been said. The CBJ era is off to a rocky start. He wasn't our first choice, I'm not sure how far down the list he even was, but if we're being honest, he's who we settled for because Hart and Cheek didn't want to spend the money. Take that as a negative if you want, but it seems like truth to me. So along comes CBJ proclaiming we'll have the best staff in the country, then proceeds to bring almost his entire staff from Cincinnati. Again, let's be honest, that certainly doesn't sound like the best staff in the country.

So let's move forward to recruiting, where we were promised big results. Remember all those excited tweets about great news and so forth? And how many big names did we get? And yes, you can absolutely make a point that our recent history hurts us, but common sense says don't make promises you can't keep. Do I understand CBJ's desire to excite everyone? Of course, but IMO it's not smart to excite a fanbase that's been down and let them down again. And yeah, some here will argue we had a good class. Again, I say let's be honest. We didn't address our key needs and arguably the only big name we landed is North.

And then we have today's cluster****. When CBJ came in and brought his best staff in the country with him, he made sure his guys got paid. Jay was on the low end of the payscale if I remember correctly. Please let me know if I'm wrong. So why is it any surprise Jay would take a higher paying job? Fans want our alum to coach here and be VFL's, but they shouldn't have to do it at bargain basement prices. Fans want loyalty, but what about our loyalty to them? CBJ could have divided the money differently when he came, but he didn't. He took care of his guys. Remember in his opening presser when he said he wanted this staff to have a Tennessee feel? Yeah, I ain't feeling it. Some are going to blame Jay, but how do you blame a man for taking a higher paying job? Who on here can honestly say they would turn down a payraise to do basically the same job somewhere else? I don't blame Jay, I blame Cheek, Hart, and yes, CBJ. All hold some amount of sway on the purse strings and I've yet to hear of FSU's offer being matched by UT. If that Tennessee feel is what Butch wants, why didn't he fight for it?

So take that as you will. I'm not saying CBJ will fail. I'm not saying I hope he fails, because I'm ready to win again. I am saying the start of his tenure has been ugly, scarred by broken promises and counterproductive statements. I honestly hope he rights the ship, but right now, he has given me enough to doubt. For all those who say support the coach or gtfo, remember how well that worked with Dooley. I support CBJ at the moment, but I'm not a blind follower. He's made several missteps, now it's time to see if he can overcome them.

BTW, I'm absolutely pissed that Jay is leaving, but as I said, I can't blame him. I blame UT for wanting their former players to come cheap. Pay them what they deserve.
 
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#210
#210
Buddr said:
Butch Jones did not run Graham off, Graham chose to leave the program simple as that he is a grown man and can do what he chooses. Again Jones did not run Graham off. Not dissing Graham he did his best while at UT, but name me one big name RB he got to commit to UT?
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I'm old, and my memory isn't so good anymore, but wasn't this Jay's first full recruiting season with UT? Every interview I read about a high rated RB considering UT pretty much said Graham was the basis for their interest. And I'm thinking if FSU comes knocking offering him more money, he must be doing something right. Sounds like UT is missing out by not matching the offer and trying to get him to stay. But then again, what good does consistency do for a program?
 
#211
#211
mdrew27 said:
I agree. Nothing so far has made me said "wow!!"
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And nothing ever will. You strike me as one of those people who even if we went undefeated in 2013, you'd say you weren't impressed because we didn't score enough points.

Jesus folks! Stop lamenting what we don't have or haven't yet seen and enjoy what we do have while getting excited about what we might see next season.
 
#212
#212
champyvol said:
exactly. the wow factor is at 0. nothing i have seen so far has led me to believe he can coach any better than he recruits. i fear stoops is doing a better job at UK.
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wow....

can you tell me another coach that has taken a 60 is class to #20 in 31 recruiting days ? It seems to be an accomplishment

I am not even speculating as to if he will be a successful coach ...but cannot resist point out the outlandishness of your post. Do you even realize what you just said?
 
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#214
#214
champyvol said:
out recruited by 10 other sec teams. just lost the second best recruiter on the staff. the staff sucks. looks like he may turn us around in 10 to 20 years. people are saying no to trooper, i say hell yeah we suck anyway. there is a chance he can help, not going to matter if we have sanctions against us anyway.
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Out recruited in 31 days, thats rational. You guys need to calm down and not look like 16 year old chicks that dont get a date to the prom. If you dont blame VFL then donet blame a coach that has been here this short of time.
 
#216
#216
champyvol said:
emotional reason " losing "
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Not trying to confuse you or interrupt your whining... but Jones hasn't been a part of UT's losing. For that matter... Graham was.

I understand the emotional attachment to Graham but the "best recruiter" stuff seems to be a bit overblown. Graham was UT's RB coach. Remind me which highly rated RB UT was in on signed with the Vols...

Maybe behind all of this... the reason UT didn't match the offer is that Graham didn't actually pull those recruits.
 
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#217
#217
oregonvol said:
...maybe it's the guy in charge? I like alot of the stuff Butch Jones says, but you have to wonder when all these guys say their heart is here but choose to go elsewhere as a "business decision"...they've seen this program up close, maybe Jones isn't what we want to believe he is. Maybe there's a reason he can only get mid major coaches or guys no one else wants for his staff (and has to give them huge raises to do so)?Maybe there's a reason he can't sign any of the top recruits who visited? Maybe, when you see things close-up, you see no progress being made.
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Hard to see progress being made when the season hasn't started is it not?
 
#218
#218
sjt18 said:
Not trying to confuse you or interrupt your whining... but Jones hasn't been a part of UT's losing. For that matter... Graham was.

I understand the emotional attachment to Graham but the "best recruiter" stuff seems to be a bit overblown. Graham was UT's RB coach. Remind me which highly rated RB UT was in on signed with the Vols...

Maybe behind all of this... the reason UT didn't match the offer is that Graham didn't actually pull those recruits.
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Exactly! How is Jones supposed to win when the season hasn't even started?

A little premature in my opinion.
 
#219
#219
There's a difference between guys like Champy and the rest of us "wait and see" fans.

He's looking for a "wow" factor... to have his fancy tickled.

I am looking for a "win" factor... W's when it counts.

Can't remember what Champy thought of Kiffin but many posters like him felt that "tingle" up their leg when he came in with his "wow" factor. His net result was a failed 09 recruiting class, a 7-6 season, and an embarrassing betrayal of the program that pulled him out of the gutter.
 
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#220
#220
I'd also throw this out there. Jones' future depends on one thing and only one thing... winning. If anyone thought Graham were the critical difference between winning and losing... they would have matched the offer. Same for Tee.

I agree completely that Jones' hires will have a huge impact on recruiting and winning... but not that anyone on this board knows who the "best" staff to work for Jones is.
 
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#222
#222
The big wins probably wont come this coming season our schedule is a who's who of big boy football, however you never know what can happen when you match a new coaching staff with a roster of young unknowns. In any case the program will have to generate wins through chemistry and fundamental football before anyone wants to affiliate their name with Tennessee a broken product. It's just how things are done in America, no one today dares have the courage to be that missing link, players and coaches alike. Sooner or later an overacheiving roster will come along, beat a few teams they aren't supposed to in an exciting manner and the rusty wheels of improved PR will begin to turn.
 
#223
#223
We have a terrible image problem. Kids who dreamed of playing here do not want to come here and former players do not want to coach here. This next hire is extremely important and CBJ first year is no freebie. Clock is ticking. Welcome to the SEC
 
#224
#224
I was one of the guys on here when cbj was hired that didn't nec jump on board like a lot of others. I wanted to take a wait and see approach since the university kind of fouled things up with other potential coaches.

I havent posted in a while bc it's all a process. Recruiting, coaches, workouts, spring practice, and the list goes on. We live in a day where social media allows everyone to get info more quickly and react quickly. Some are gonna fall in love with whomever is the head coach bc of the love of Tennessee. Some are gonna be quick to judge bc of the love for tennessee. No matter your feelings, being a fan and hoping for the best is why we all read and react on VolNation.

I think cbj did a pretty good job with the limited time he had to recruit. Did he fill every need? Did he land every player he wanted or the fanbase wanted? No he didn't but the effort was there. He worked very hard in my opinion. Now, the job turns to getting our team ready for spring, summer, and the season.

Is he going to win every game? Probably not but if he wins 6 with the schedule that we have, I consider it a job well done for his first year. Sit back and watch things unfold and give the man a chance. After his first season, reflect and give your opinion on what you see and progress or lack there of. Either way, hoping is part of being a fan.

As for graham, I hate to see him go. He's a great recruiter and coach from what we know. Could we not match money? Was there something else we don't know? Who knows but all we can do is hope we fill the void and get a man the players will work hard for.

I'm not saying our situation doesn't suck, but things can get better. We have to hope they will get better, right?
 
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#225
#225
ironic that this thread title had me thinking this thread was going to be about unrealistic, pathetic fans. but, i guess it is in a way
 
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