Most Overrated coach?

[Lawrence Wright]

When you start arguing with a straight face that Mississippi State is a worse or even comparable job to Vanderbilt, that should make it obvious that people will bend over backwards to defend Mullen.

Or....when objective information is presented regarding historical success at both programs, that should make it obvious that people will bend over backwards to discredit Mullen.

 

[NashVol11]

Or....when objective information is presented regarding historical success at both programs, that should make it obvious that people will bend over backwards to discredit Mullen.

Do you think Vanderbilt is an easier job than Mississippi State? Keep in mind that if you say no, you’re discrediting said objective information just like I am

 

[DaddyChad]

Mike Bellotti and Lloyd Carr are in the Hall of Fame. Snyder is a good coach, he’s not some Top 5 coach like some seem to think.

Lol. It's Kansas state man. Seriously have you ever even been in the area. It's nothing there. Snyder literally put the program on the map and has one of the best coaching lineages in college football. Saying he's not a HOF coach makes you look clueless.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Do you think Vanderbilt is an easier job than Mississippi State? Keep in mind that if you say no, you’re discrediting said objective information just like I am

Both jobs suck quite honestly. Mississippi State is the stepchild school in the SEC West's stepchild state. Vandy's administration doesn't care if they win another football game this decade.

Historically Vandy and Mississippi State have both been SEC doormats, difference being Mississippi State actually cares about football.

Outside of Dan Mullen's recent stint and Jackie Sherrill cheating his ass off, Mississippi State has been an afterthought.

Getting back on point, I don't think Dan Mullen is overrated, primarily because of what he accomplished at Mississippi State.

 

[NashVol11]

Lol. It's Kansas state man. Seriously have you ever even been in the area. It's nothing there. Snyder literally put the program on the map and has one of the best coaching lineages in college football. Saying he's not a HOF coach makes you look clueless.

Where did I say that?

 

[NashVol11]

Both jobs suck quite honestly. Mississippi State is the stepchild school in the SEC West's stepchild state. Vandy's administration doesn't care if they win another football game this decade.

Historically Vandy and Mississippi State have both been SEC doormats, difference being Mississippi State actually cares about football.

Outside of Dan Mullen's recent stint and Jackie Sherrill cheating his ass off, Mississippi State has been an afterthought.

Getting back on point, I don't think Dan Mullen is overrated, primarily because of what he accomplished at Mississippi State.

That’s a nice copout. Even Croom was going 8-5 and pulling Top-25 classes at MSU. Outside of Franklin, Vandy is largely 2-10 and recruiting about 60th. Your “difference” is a big one and you know it.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

That’s a nice copout. Even Croom was going 8-5 and pulling Top-25 classes at MSU. Outside of Franklin, Vandy is largely 2-10 and recruiting about 60th. Your “difference” is a big one and you know it.

What are we arguing, whether or not Mullen is overrated, or are we judging a tallest midget contest between Mississippi State and Vandy?

I say MSU and Vandy are historic SEC doormats, and Mullen is not overrated...not yet at least. If he runs off three straight 5-loss seasons in Gainesville, then absolutely.

You say Mullen is overrated in spite of his success at Mississippi State, as if he underachieved based on the expectations of that program....and I disagree with you.

 

[VOLNPA]

Bielema. Go...

 

[JMSqb11]

That’s a nice copout. Even Croom was going 8-5 and pulling Top-25 classes at MSU. Outside of Franklin, Vandy is largely 2-10 and recruiting about 60th. Your “difference” is a big one and you know it.

Croom had one good season. He hardly did anything of significance in Starkville.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Bielema. Go...

His wife game is extremely underrated.

 

[NashVol11]

What are we arguing, whether or not Mullen is overrated, or are we judging a tallest midget contest between Mississippi State and Vandy?

I say MSU and Vandy are historic SEC doormats, and Mullen is not overrated...not yet at least. If he runs off three straight 5-loss seasons in Gainesville, then absolutely.

You say Mullen is overrated in spite of his success at Mississippi State, as if he underachieved based on the expectations of that program....and I disagree with you.

You appear to have missed both points.

Regarding MSU and Vandy, I asked a direct question that you don’t want to answer for obvious reasons. If Vandy is a worse program, then the “objective information” about their all-time record is mostly worthless, like I said—and you’d be agreeing, presumably as someone who’s not “bending over backwards to discredit Mullen,” thus destroying your own point.

Re: Mullen, I’ve never said he underachieved. People just apparently think that making a below-average team into an above-average team makes one an elite coach, which it does not. He’s good, not great; many think he is great, which makes him overrated.

 

[NashVol11]

And, the fact that people are even pretending Mississippi State is a Vandy-level program is evidence that they are overrating what he accomplished there. Making MSU 10-3 isn’t near the same accomplishment as that record would be at Vandy.

 

[hatingbamaisawayoflife]

Saban
Has most talent in country ever year. Still doesn’t win it all
Best recruiter ever. Best coach NO

 

[Boston Vol]

Saban
Has most talent in country ever year. Still doesn’t win it all
Best recruiter ever. Best coach NO

Delete your account

 

[SaintLouisVol]

Delete your account

And throw your computer, phone and any other internet capable device in the trash.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

.

 

[Boston Vol]

Saban
Has most talent in country ever year. Still doesn’t win it all
Best recruiter ever. Best coach NO

You were saying?

 

[WhitewaterVol]

Jimbo Fisher

This would be my bet for worst hire this season. I have a feeling A&M is going to regret backing up the Brinks truck for Fisher.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

This thread is pretty offbase overall. Everyone is picking coaches that had *RECENT* disappointing seasons and the the media is already piling onto. How is Harbaugh "overrated" when like 80% of the media and CFB fans are saying "HE'S ON THE HOT SEAT!"? If anything, the better claim is that Harbaugh is underrated, because fans are judging him based on 1 freaking season at an overrated program (other than Nebraska, Michigan is the toughest "prestige program" job; recruiting is tough there).

An "overrated coach" is one that has had one or two good seasons recently, but there's little evidence that he can sustain that success, or his success is primarily due to other factors, but the media and general public give too much credit. Based on that criteria, most overrated:

1. Paul Chryst. I've said it numerous times, but Wisconsin's success has more to do with AD Barry Alvarez than any individual coach. Every Wisconsin coach looks great when they are at Wisconsin, but suddenly looks not nearly as great anywhere else. See Bret Bielema and Gary Andersen. Andersen was 19-7 at Wisconsin, but 7-23 at Oregon State. Bielema was 68-24 at Wisconsin and 29-34 at Arkansas with greater resources. Paul Chryst was very very mediocre at Pitt. Chryst is easily the most overrated coach in the US. Put him at Auburn or Texas A&M and suddenly, he's a 5 or 6 win coach.

2. Les Miles. Not an active coach, but extremely overrated. LSU has the best recruiting turf in America and consistently pulls in top 10 classes. With the massive talent at LSU, winning 9-10 games per season is pretty easy. Too many people act like Miles is a top 5 coach for taking the best talent in America and having 10-3 and 8-5 type seasons with it. I'd be surprised if Miles could win 6 games at somewhere like Ole Miss or Miss State. While some of LSU's underperformance can be attributed to its crappy AD, that still doesn't explain why Les Miles didn't have a functional offense at any point in his last 5 or 6 seasons.

3. Chip Kelly. Had a great 4 year run at Oregon. I'm not convinced that he's not the next RichRod: a guy who's offensive system worked very well until it didn't. Remember back in '06 and '07, RichRod was considered a hot commodity; a "home run hire" for any program that could get him. He was 32-5 from 2005 - 07. From that point onward, he's 58-57 with 1 good season out of 9. So what does RichRod have to do with Kelly? Very similar profiles. Nick Saban is successful not because he's a great X's and O's coach, but because he's a great recruiter, an excellent manager (who can hire the best assistants and make them work well together), and a spectacular program builder. Chip Kelly was a great X's and O's guy, whose offense frustrated virtually every defense in America 5-10 years ago. Now, defenses have figured out his system much better. I could be wrong, but guys like Saban who know how to "build and maintain great programs" tend to fare better over the long-run than guys like Kelly who are "offensive innovators" but lack good program-building attributes. (There are some "offensive innovators" like Steve Spurrier that were more fully rounded, but I don't think Kelly fits into that bucket.)

4. Neal Brown. I'm not saying he's not a good coach. He may very well turn out to be a very good coach in due time, but his entire reputation right now is based on 1 win versus Ed Orgeron. Plenty of coaches in CFB history that have had 1 or 2 big wins and then never really did much after that. So more "unproven" and getting too much "benefit of the doubt" right now, but could be a very good coach.

 

[MSUDuo]

To me, overrated coaches would begin with the Mack Brown and Rich Rod types. Kiffin gets a lot of hoopla for very little return as well. Harbaugh is trending in the direction

 

[NashVol11]

This thread is pretty offbase overall. Everyone is picking coaches that had *RECENT* disappointing seasons and the the media is already piling onto. How is Harbaugh "overrated" when like 80% of the media and CFB fans are saying "HE'S ON THE HOT SEAT!"? If anything, the better claim is that Harbaugh is underrated, because fans are judging him based on 1 freaking season at an overrated program (other than Nebraska, Michigan is the toughest "prestige program" job; recruiting is tough there).

An "overrated coach" is one that has had one or two good seasons recently, but there's little evidence that he can sustain that success, or his success is primarily due to other factors, but the media and general public give too much credit. Based on that criteria, most overrated:

1. Paul Chryst. I've said it numerous times, but Wisconsin's success has more to do with AD Barry Alvarez than any individual coach. Every Wisconsin coach looks great when they are at Wisconsin, but suddenly looks not nearly as great anywhere else. See Bret Bielema and Gary Andersen. Andersen was 19-7 at Wisconsin, but 7-23 at Oregon State. Bielema was 68-24 at Wisconsin and 29-34 at Arkansas with greater resources. Paul Chryst was very very mediocre at Pitt. Chryst is easily the most overrated coach in the US. Put him at Auburn or Texas A&M and suddenly, he's a 5 or 6 win coach.

2. Les Miles. Not an active coach, but extremely overrated. LSU has the best recruiting turf in America and consistently pulls in top 10 classes. With the massive talent at LSU, winning 9-10 games per season is pretty easy. Too many people act like Miles is a top 5 coach for taking the best talent in America and having 10-3 and 8-5 type seasons with it. I'd be surprised if Miles could win 6 games at somewhere like Ole Miss or Miss State. While some of LSU's underperformance can be attributed to its crappy AD, that still doesn't explain why Les Miles didn't have a functional offense at any point in his last 5 or 6 seasons.

3. Chip Kelly. Had a great 4 year run at Oregon. I'm not convinced that he's not the next RichRod: a guy who's offensive system worked very well until it didn't. Remember back in '06 and '07, RichRod was considered a hot commodity; a "home run hire" for any program that could get him. He was 32-5 from 2005 - 07. From that point onward, he's 58-57 with 1 good season out of 9. So what does RichRod have to do with Kelly? Very similar profiles. Nick Saban is successful not because he's a great X's and O's coach, but because he's a great recruiter, an excellent manager (who can hire the best assistants and make them work well together), and a spectacular program builder. Chip Kelly was a great X's and O's guy, whose offense frustrated virtually every defense in America 5-10 years ago. Now, defenses have figured out his system much better. I could be wrong, but guys like Saban who know how to "build and maintain great programs" tend to fare better over the long-run than guys like Kelly who are "offensive innovators" but lack good program-building attributes. (There are some "offensive innovators" like Steve Spurrier that were more fully rounded, but I don't think Kelly fits into that bucket.)

4. Neal Brown. I'm not saying he's not a good coach. He may very well turn out to be a very good coach in due time, but his entire reputation right now is based on 1 win versus Ed Orgeron. Plenty of coaches in CFB history that have had 1 or 2 big wins and then never really did much after that. So more "unproven" and getting too much "benefit of the doubt" right now, but could be a very good coach.

*Comes in to say that everyone in the whole thread is “offbase” and that he knows better*

*Proceeds to say it’s tough to recruit to Michigan, which has had top 10 classes under every coach since forever*

 

[NashVol11]

Also, Chip Kelly—the one who made the playoffs in the NFL and is 45-7 including a title game appearance in college—is absolutely nothing like Rich Rod having like 3 good years beating nobodies in the Big East.

 

[NashVol11]

This thread is pretty offbase overall. Everyone is picking coaches that had *RECENT* disappointing seasons and the the media is already piling onto. How is Harbaugh "overrated" when like 80% of the media and CFB fans are saying "HE'S ON THE HOT SEAT!"? If anything, the better claim is that Harbaugh is underrated, because fans are judging him based on 1 freaking season at an overrated program (other than Nebraska, Michigan is the toughest "prestige program" job; recruiting is tough there).

An "overrated coach" is one that has had one or two good seasons recently, but there's little evidence that he can sustain that success, or his success is primarily due to other factors, but the media and general public give too much credit. Based on that criteria, most overrated:

1. Paul Chryst. I've said it numerous times, but Wisconsin's success has more to do with AD Barry Alvarez than any individual coach. Every Wisconsin coach looks great when they are at Wisconsin, but suddenly looks not nearly as great anywhere else. See Bret Bielema and Gary Andersen. Andersen was 19-7 at Wisconsin, but 7-23 at Oregon State. Bielema was 68-24 at Wisconsin and 29-34 at Arkansas with greater resources. Paul Chryst was very very mediocre at Pitt. Chryst is easily the most overrated coach in the US. Put him at Auburn or Texas A&M and suddenly, he's a 5 or 6 win coach.

2. Les Miles. Not an active coach, but extremely overrated. LSU has the best recruiting turf in America and consistently pulls in top 10 classes. With the massive talent at LSU, winning 9-10 games per season is pretty easy. Too many people act like Miles is a top 5 coach for taking the best talent in America and having 10-3 and 8-5 type seasons with it. I'd be surprised if Miles could win 6 games at somewhere like Ole Miss or Miss State. While some of LSU's underperformance can be attributed to its crappy AD, that still doesn't explain why Les Miles didn't have a functional offense at any point in his last 5 or 6 seasons.

3. Chip Kelly. Had a great 4 year run at Oregon. I'm not convinced that he's not the next RichRod: a guy who's offensive system worked very well until it didn't. Remember back in '06 and '07, RichRod was considered a hot commodity; a "home run hire" for any program that could get him. He was 32-5 from 2005 - 07. From that point onward, he's 58-57 with 1 good season out of 9. So what does RichRod have to do with Kelly? Very similar profiles. Nick Saban is successful not because he's a great X's and O's coach, but because he's a great recruiter, an excellent manager (who can hire the best assistants and make them work well together), and a spectacular program builder. Chip Kelly was a great X's and O's guy, whose offense frustrated virtually every defense in America 5-10 years ago. Now, defenses have figured out his system much better. I could be wrong, but guys like Saban who know how to "build and maintain great programs" tend to fare better over the long-run than guys like Kelly who are "offensive innovators" but lack good program-building attributes. (There are some "offensive innovators" like Steve Spurrier that were more fully rounded, but I don't think Kelly fits into that bucket.)

4. Neal Brown. I'm not saying he's not a good coach. He may very well turn out to be a very good coach in due time, but his entire reputation right now is based on 1 win versus Ed Orgeron. Plenty of coaches in CFB history that have had 1 or 2 big wins and then never really did much after that. So more "unproven" and getting too much "benefit of the doubt" right now, but could be a very good coach.

And, if you don’t think Saban is a great X’s and O’s coach after what he did at Michigan State and LSU (against our favorite team, directly, at that) then you don’t have the first clue what you are talking about.

 

[CardsNVols]

And, if you don’t think Saban is a great X’s and O’s coach after what he did at Michigan State and LSU (against our favorite team, directly, at that) then you don’t have the first clue what you are talking about.

He didn't do anything particularly special at Michigan State. He had them built up into a good program by his final year, but it took him a while to get it going.

I tend to agree with DG. I wouldn't go so far as to say Saban isn't a good X's and O's guy, he definitely knows his s***, but his strength has always been his ability to build and recruit much more so than simply out-scheming folks. Dude is the ultimate CEO type, and a damn good one at that.

 

[Grand Vol]

He didn't do anything particularly special at Michigan State. He had them built up into a good program by his final year, but it took him a while to get it going.

I tend to agree with DG. I wouldn't go so far as to say Saban isn't a good X's and O's guy, he definitely knows his s***, but his strength has always been his ability to build and recruit much more so than simply out-scheming folks. Dude is the ultimate CEO type, and a damn good one at that.

And pick good coordinators and position coaches.