Nashville School Shooting

#77
#77
Jax_Vol said:
I am all for banning AR's. I am also all for the Vols football winning national championships in football, basketball (both teams}, softball, baseball, tennis and golf.

But, while we work on those goals, give guns to more people in the school system. Or, pay to have a snipers revolving on roofs. A drone over school border. Cameras everywhere. Fortify the schools. Same as air marshalls...there doesn't have to be one there every time. Just the threat of it, will send these sicko's on to other public places away from the children.

I don't need a concrete bunker. If you shoot out a door window and enter my house, I will drop you in the threshold.
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Why are you for banning AR's? Or is that already posted in the gun control thread in the PF?
 
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#78
#78
turbovol said:
Please. Turning schools into armed fortresses doesn't solve the problem, does it? Yea, really intelligent: Let's give more guns to more people---in schools and everywhere else, since mass shootings happen everywhere nowadays--so that we can protect ourselves from all the maladjusted people walking around America with guns! Yea, makes total sense.

This is conservative thinking: "Well, Harriet, we've got so much gun violence now that I'm going to build a concrete bunker in front of our house and put a machine gun in there. That'll show them." Guns are the problem. The idea is to build a //more civilized// society--not a less civilized society. A society that doesn't have the good sense and responsibility to ban assault rifles is a society that's jumped the shark. Actually, American society hasn't gotten shamefully irresponsible--a large majority of Americans want to ban assault rifles, and they oppose permit-less carry (another incredibly stupid, irresponsible idea)--but GOP politicians do not care. They not only do not care about public safety, they've passed laws that clearly make American increasingly less safe. Ask law enforcement officials how they feel about permit-less carry. They've said the obvious--it will make states more dangerous--which is obvious. I used to live in Japan. There is no gun violence in Japan--none, zero--because there are no guns in Japan.
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If someone on school staff wants to go armed for defense of the school, and is suitable and well trained, why not? It's one more safeguard. Discounting defensive measures and going solely straight for an unconstitutional gun ban isn't going to help anything.
Look at the big picture. What changes in the last 30+ years have resulted in all these school shootings? Let's address that, and defend the schools, before we go on a misguided witch hunt.
 
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#80
#80
EasternVol said:
If someone on school staff wants to go armed for defense of the school, and is suitable and well trained, why not? It's one more safeguard. Discounting defensive measures and going solely straight for an unconstitutional gun ban isn't going to help anything.
Look at the big picture. What changes in the last 30+ years have resulted in all these school shootings? Let's address that, and defend the schools, before we go on a misguided witch hunt.
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All these mass shootings involve assault rifles that are capable of killing multiple people in a very short period of time. Nobody needs them and nobody should have them. They are very dangerous--and they should not be for sale in America. They had been banned for, I think, about 10 years---but it was a temporary ban, probably the price Democrats had to pay to get Republicans to vote for the ban. Now of course assault rifles are easily available again.

It's a disgrace that Republicans haven't voted to ban assault rifles given all the mass shootings in America and the regular murder of students in their schools. A disgrace. It's a disgrace that young students have to walk out of their schools and march to statehouses to plead with these fat GOP cowards to start regulating dangerous weapons. These GOP clowns pretend to shocked and alarmed by mass shootings, but they do nothing--and have a long history of doing nothing and trying to blame the problem on everything but guns. They're not fooling anybody.

In fact, guns are one big part of a two-part problem. The second part is that there is a HUGE number of people in America with mental-health problems of one kind or another: Depression, anger issues, drug and alcohol addiction, along with a broad range of more serious psychological problems. The vast majority of people with mental issues are not even diagnosed, much less treated. Many people don't have insurance, many people don't want to get checked out by doctors/psychiatrists, and insurance plans that cover mental-health counseling/treatment have tight limits. This isn't going to change anytime soon--if it ever changes. Indeed, Republicans vote against bills to expand mental-health treatment programs as they vote against most things that seek to solve problems. You combine a vast number of people with mental troubles with the easy availability of dangerous weapons and it's pretty easy to see why we have an epidemic of mass shootings in a country that is supposed to be "advanced" but clearly isn't anymore owing to a bunch of pusillanimous politicians more worried about their cushy jobs than the safety of the public. Fact.
 
#81
#81
turbovol said:
All these mass shootings involve assault rifles that are capable of killing multiple people in a very short period of time. Nobody needs them and nobody should have them. They are very dangerous--and they should not be for sale in America. They had been banned for, I think, about 10 years---but it was a temporary ban, probably the price Democrats had to pay to get Republicans to vote for the ban. Now of course assault rifles are easily available again.

It's a disgrace that Republicans haven't voted to ban assault rifles given all the mass shootings in America and the regular murder of students in their schools. A disgrace. It's a disgrace that young students have to walk out of their schools and march to statehouses to plead with these fat GOP cowards to start regulating dangerous weapons. These GOP clowns pretend to shocked and alarmed by mass shootings, but they do nothing--and have a long history of doing nothing and trying to blame the problem on everything but guns. They're not fooling anybody.

In fact, guns are one big part of a two-part problem. The second part is that there is a HUGE number of people in America with mental-health problems of one kind or another: Depression, anger issues, drug and alcohol addiction, along with a broad range of more serious psychological problems. The vast majority of people with mental issues are not even diagnosed, much less treated. Many people don't have insurance, many people don't want to get checked out by doctors/psychiatrists, and insurance plans that cover mental-health counseling/treatment have tight limits. This isn't going to change anytime soon--if it ever changes. Indeed, Republicans vote against bills to expand mental-health treatment programs as they vote against most things that seek to solve problems. You combine a vast number of people with mental troubles with the easy availability of dangerous weapons and it's pretty easy to see why we have an epidemic of mass shootings in a country that is supposed to be "advanced" but clearly isn't anymore owing to a bunch of pusillanimous politicians more worried about their cushy jobs than the safety of the public. Fact.
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You need to double check that claim, if you do you will find out that few mass shootings involve what you are incorrectly calling an assault rifle.
 
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#82
#82
turbovol said:
All these mass shootings involve assault rifles that are capable of killing multiple people in a very short period of time. Nobody needs them and nobody should have them. They are very dangerous--and they should not be for sale in America. They had been banned for, I think, about 10 years---but it was a temporary ban, probably the price Democrats had to pay to get Republicans to vote for the ban. Now of course assault rifles are easily available again.

It's a disgrace that Republicans haven't voted to ban assault rifles given all the mass shootings in America and the regular murder of students in their schools. A disgrace. It's a disgrace that young students have to walk out of their schools and march to statehouses to plead with these fat GOP cowards to start regulating dangerous weapons. These GOP clowns pretend to shocked and alarmed by mass shootings, but they do nothing--and have a long history of doing nothing and trying to blame the problem on everything but guns. They're not fooling anybody.

In fact, guns are one big part of a two-part problem. The second part is that there is a HUGE number of people in America with mental-health problems of one kind or another: Depression, anger issues, drug and alcohol addiction, along with a broad range of more serious psychological problems. The vast majority of people with mental issues are not even diagnosed, much less treated. Many people don't have insurance, many people don't want to get checked out by doctors/psychiatrists, and insurance plans that cover mental-health counseling/treatment have tight limits. This isn't going to change anytime soon--if it ever changes. Indeed, Republicans vote against bills to expand mental-health treatment programs as they vote against most things that seek to solve problems. You combine a vast number of people with mental troubles with the easy availability of dangerous weapons and it's pretty easy to see why we have an epidemic of mass shootings in a country that is supposed to be "advanced" but clearly isn't anymore owing to a bunch of pusillanimous politicians more worried about their cushy jobs than the safety of the public. Fact.
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I’m genuinely courious. Do you own a gun? If so is it for defense or sport? Have you ever been in a fight defending yourself or someone else? Have you served in our military?
 
#83
#83
EasternVol said:
Or a major wuss.
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I'd call him intelligent. You don't think gun owners are illogically paranoid? That's why many men buy guns in the first place--a crazy fear that a Muslim
terrorist or some "bad guy" is going to pop out of the bushes.
 
#84
#84
Wireless1 said:
I’m genuinely courious. Do you own a gun? If so is it for defense or sport? Have you ever been in a fight defending yourself or someone else? Have you served in our military?
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No, I don't own a gun--you might have surmised that from my posts. I have no need for a gun--and I live in a fairly large city and have lived in major cities.
Never had a problem. The self-defense argument by which so many guns have been sold has always been little more than a marketing ploy by the NRA, which as you know represents gun makers, which, as you know, have an interest in selling guns. How to do that? You need a sales hook--and that has been self-defense, protect your family. Fits well with certain people. Scare men into thinking that dangers lurk around every corner and they can be the "good guy with a gun" who saves the day. It's all about 95 percent nonsense, of course. A gun owner is much more likely to either shoot himself or some innocent person than a "bad guy" with a gun.

And here's another NRA/gun-crowd myth: The "responsible gun owner." Everybody's responsible...until they're not. There's this notion that if somebody is "responsible" today, they'll be responsible tomorrow, and three months from now, or a year or two years from now. Wrong. Circumstances change, people change, things happen; men blow their tops, and if they own guns when that happens, they often shoot people. Angry men going through bitter divorce/custody battles shoot their wives/ex-wives. Sacked employees return and shoot up the office. The Las Vegas shooter--how many did he kill, 65 or so, with 200 wounded, whatever the numbers---would have been called a "responsible gun owner" the day before he unloaded on a concert crowd with an array of high-powered weapons.

This country is chock full of people with mental troubles of one kind or another--fact--and yet the gun crowd apparently thinks the non-gun-owning public is supposed to be comforted by the fact that YOU are walking around with a gun--because YOU think you're responsible. Really? And, now, in Tennessee, Florida and 20 other states, you don't even need a permit to roam around with a concealed gun. And that's supposed to make the American public safe? Please. The opposite is true. There's also the fact that a majority of Americans want assault rifles banned and tighter gun regulations, and oppose permit-less concealed carry--and yet a minority of defiant, irresponsible, corrupt GOP politicians don't give a damn what the majority thinks and continue to loosen gun laws in a country that's been suffering from a major gun-violence problem for a long time. It's embarrasing--pathetic.
 
#86
#86
turbovol said:
All these mass shootings involve assault rifles that are capable of killing multiple people in a very short period of time. Nobody needs them and nobody should have them. They are very dangerous--and they should not be for sale in America. They had been banned for, I think, about 10 years---but it was a temporary ban, probably the price Democrats had to pay to get Republicans to vote for the ban. Now of course assault rifles are easily available again.

It's a disgrace that Republicans haven't voted to ban assault rifles given all the mass shootings in America and the regular murder of students in their schools. A disgrace. It's a disgrace that young students have to walk out of their schools and march to statehouses to plead with these fat GOP cowards to start regulating dangerous weapons. These GOP clowns pretend to shocked and alarmed by mass shootings, but they do nothing--and have a long history of doing nothing and trying to blame the problem on everything but guns. They're not fooling anybody.

In fact, guns are one big part of a two-part problem. The second part is that there is a HUGE number of people in America with mental-health problems of one kind or another: Depression, anger issues, drug and alcohol addiction, along with a broad range of more serious psychological problems. The vast majority of people with mental issues are not even diagnosed, much less treated. Many people don't have insurance, many people don't want to get checked out by doctors/psychiatrists, and insurance plans that cover mental-health counseling/treatment have tight limits. This isn't going to change anytime soon--if it ever changes. Indeed, Republicans vote against bills to expand mental-health treatment programs as they vote against most things that seek to solve problems. You combine a vast number of people with mental troubles with the easy availability of dangerous weapons and it's pretty easy to see why we have an epidemic of mass shootings in a country that is supposed to be "advanced" but clearly isn't anymore owing to a bunch of pusillanimous politicians more worried about their cushy jobs than the safety of the public. Fact.
Click to expand...

The bunch of pusillanimous politicians are addicted to the power they derive from their cushy jobs.
 
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#87
#87
turbovol said:
Please. Turning schools into armed fortresses doesn't solve the problem, does it? Yea, really intelligent: Let's give more guns to more people---in schools and everywhere else, since mass shootings happen everywhere nowadays--so that we can protect ourselves from all the maladjusted people walking around America with guns! Yea, makes total sense.

This is conservative thinking: "Well, Harriet, we've got so much gun violence now that I'm going to build a concrete bunker in front of our house and put a machine gun in there. That'll show them." Guns are the problem. The idea is to build a //more civilized// society--not a less civilized society. A society that doesn't have the good sense and responsibility to ban assault rifles is a society that's jumped the shark. Actually, American society hasn't gotten shamefully irresponsible--a large majority of Americans want to ban assault rifles, and they oppose permit-less carry (another incredibly stupid, irresponsible idea)--but GOP politicians do not care. They not only do not care about public safety, they've passed laws that clearly make American increasingly less safe. Ask law enforcement officials how they feel about permit-less carry. They've said the obvious--it will make states more dangerous--which is obvious. I used to live in Japan. There is no gun violence in Japan--none, zero--because there are no guns in Japan.
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What is an "assault rifle?" What about assault pistols? Or assault knives? Or those scary assault vehicles the police SWAT units drive?!?!
 
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#88
#88
turbovol said:
Please. Turning schools into armed fortresses doesn't solve the problem, does it? Yea, really intelligent: Let's give more guns to more people---in schools and everywhere else, since mass shootings happen everywhere nowadays--so that we can protect ourselves from all the maladjusted people walking around America with guns! Yea, makes total sense.

This is conservative thinking: "Well, Harriet, we've got so much gun violence now that I'm going to build a concrete bunker in front of our house and put a machine gun in there. That'll show them." Guns are the problem. The idea is to build a //more civilized// society--not a less civilized society. A society that doesn't have the good sense and responsibility to ban assault rifles is a society that's jumped the shark. Actually, American society hasn't gotten shamefully irresponsible--a large majority of Americans want to ban assault rifles, and they oppose permit-less carry (another incredibly stupid, irresponsible idea)--but GOP politicians do not care. They not only do not care about public safety, they've passed laws that clearly make American increasingly less safe. Ask law enforcement officials how they feel about permit-less carry. They've said the obvious--it will make states more dangerous--which is obvious. I used to live in Japan. There is no gun violence in Japan--none, zero--because there are no guns in Japan.
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Welp. Only last year:

Shinzo Abe, the former prime minister of Japan and a serving member of the House of Representatives, was assassinated on 8 July 2022 while speaking at a political event outside Yamato-Saidaiji Station in Nara City, Nara Prefecture, Japan.

While delivering a campaign speech for a Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) candidate, he was shot from behind at close range.
 
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#89
#89
turbovol said:
I'd call him intelligent. You don't think gun owners are illogically paranoid? That's why many men buy guns in the first place--a crazy fear that a Muslim
terrorist or some "bad guy" is going to pop out of the bushes.
Click to expand...
You must be from the burbs. Gun owners, with very few exceptions, are not illogically paranoid. Get out more and see how people are.
 
#90
#90
turbovol said:
I'd call him intelligent. You don't think gun owners are illogically paranoid? That's why many men buy guns in the first place--a crazy fear that a Muslim
terrorist or some "bad guy" is going to pop out of the bushes.
Click to expand...
I own guns, and I'm not paranoid. It seems as though your every argument is coming straight from your political feelings from news you watch, because you have no clue about what facts are. You're literally trying to use politics to blame the gun violence on a particular party, when 99 percent of the gun violence is not from "right wing extremist". You think all the shootings in Atlanta and Chicago every day are republicans? You think the 5 recent arrests of transgenders are republican? The shooter in Nashville? I'm not even a republican, but you're trying to use that as an argument, and you're trying to state your political feelings as facts, and I'd guarantee you it's because of the news you watch. You're literally no different than the argument your making. My guns have nothing to do with fear, Muslims, the republican party, or anything you said. That's why you anti gun grabbers are so annoying, you haven't got a clue, you just spew political opinion, and it's wrong. All you want to do is attack legal, non criminal, gun owners, and we're not the ones doing this stuff. Not once, in any of your rambling or others like you, do you offer a solution for the people that's the actual problem, you only make false statements about people like me, and try to blame republican people. I agree, something needs done, so how about we start with you going downtown Atlanta, and removing guns from people who aren't supposed to have them? I'll go with you, and record the whole thing for the world to see how it goes. Every single day, literally, someone is shot in Atlanta by someone who shouldn't have a gun. So, let's do this, or are you going to be a hypocrite, and just sit here trying to make people like me the problem?
 
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#92
#92
joevol33 said:
And I probably shouldn't have said anything, but name calling every gun owner is both ignorant and lazy, especially when not once do you blame the people actually doing the crimes.
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If he'd just have blamed KY born GA fans he'd have had a lot of agreement.
 
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#94
#94
turbovol said:
All these mass shootings involve assault rifles that are capable of killing multiple people in a very short period of time. Nobody needs them and nobody should have them. They are very dangerous--and they should not be for sale in America. They had been banned for, I think, about 10 years---but it was a temporary ban, probably the price Democrats had to pay to get Republicans to vote for the ban. Now of course assault rifles are easily available again.

It's a disgrace that Republicans haven't voted to ban assault rifles given all the mass shootings in America and the regular murder of students in their schools. A disgrace. It's a disgrace that young students have to walk out of their schools and march to statehouses to plead with these fat GOP cowards to start regulating dangerous weapons. These GOP clowns pretend to shocked and alarmed by mass shootings, but they do nothing--and have a long history of doing nothing and trying to blame the problem on everything but guns. They're not fooling anybody.

In fact, guns are one big part of a two-part problem. The second part is that there is a HUGE number of people in America with mental-health problems of one kind or another: Depression, anger issues, drug and alcohol addiction, along with a broad range of more serious psychological problems. The vast majority of people with mental issues are not even diagnosed, much less treated. Many people don't have insurance, many people don't want to get checked out by doctors/psychiatrists, and insurance plans that cover mental-health counseling/treatment have tight limits. This isn't going to change anytime soon--if it ever changes. Indeed, Republicans vote against bills to expand mental-health treatment programs as they vote against most things that seek to solve problems. You combine a vast number of people with mental troubles with the easy availability of dangerous weapons and it's pretty easy to see why we have an epidemic of mass shootings in a country that is supposed to be "advanced" but clearly isn't anymore owing to a bunch of pusillanimous politicians more worried about their cushy jobs than the safety of the public. Fact.
Click to expand...

I have a legal Armilite Rifle AR-15. I am a law abiding gun owner. Why do you want my gun, I did nothing wrong? I will not debate why I have one or if I should have one because thats not applicable to the problem. If you ban AR-15's it will simply create a blackmarket for the weapons and they will actually become more easily available than before. There are so many guns out there that gun laws or even bans will not stop the killing. Propose an an action that is feasible and that will stop the killing and I will jump on your bandwagon. Crying for weapons ban is not a legitimate solution.
 
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#95
#95
VOLtaism said:
I have a legal Armilite Rifle AR-15. I am a law abiding gun owner. Why do you want my gun, I did nothing wrong? I will not debate why I have one or if I should have one because thats not applicable to the problem. If you ban AR-15's it will simply create a blackmarket for the weapons and they will actually become more easily available than before. There are so many guns out there that gun laws or even bans will not stop the killing. Propose an an action that is feasible and that will stop the killing and I will jump on your bandwagon. Crying for weapons ban is not a legitimate solution.
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Same here. I have owned guns my entire life and neither myself or my guns have committed a crime. Why should honest, law abiding citizens be impacted while society get's softer on crime and criminals? Most people crying for gun control can't provide a definition of an AR. Plus, the second amendment guarantees us the right to own firearms without having to provide a need or reason. The problem is the condition of the heart & soul, not guns. Our society started down the toilet when when the traditional family, discipline and other christian values were pushed aside.
 
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#96
#96
Big Orange Rob said:
Same here. I have owned guns my entire life and neither myself or my guns have committed a crime. Why should honest, law abiding citizens be impacted while society get's softer on crime and criminals? Most people crying for gun control can't provide a definition of an AR. Plus, the second amendment guarantees us the right to own firearms without having to provide a need or reason. The problem is the condition of the heart & soul, not guns. Our society started down the toilet when when the traditional family, discipline and other christian values were pushed aside.
Click to expand...

My point was, while I am a steadfast 2nd amendment guy, I would do anything that would assure me tomorrow my kid was safe in school. I am on the side of the kids. These advocates of gun control are acting like banning AR-15's is the solution to the problem. Its not, the killers could still use hand guns or other weapons purchased legally or illegally. I need a real solution that solves the problem right away and so far there is only one.
 
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#97
#97
VOLtaism said:
I have a legal Armilite Rifle AR-15. I am a law abiding gun owner. Why do you want my gun, I did nothing wrong? I will not debate why I have one or if I should have one because thats not applicable to the problem. If you ban AR-15's it will simply create a blackmarket for the weapons and they will actually become more easily available than before. There are so many guns out there that gun laws or even bans will not stop the killing. Propose an an action that is feasible and that will stop the killing and I will jump on your bandwagon. Crying for weapons ban is not a legitimate solution.
Click to expand...

What is your use / need for an Armilite Rifle AR-15?
 
#98
#98
VOLtaism said:
My point was, while I am a steadfast 2nd amendment guy, I would do anything that would assure me tomorrow my kid was safe in school. I am on the side of the kids. These advocates of gun control are acting like banning AR-15's is the solution to the problem. Its not, the killers could still use hand guns or other weapons purchased legally or illegally. I need a real solution that solves the problem right away and so far there is only one.
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Well said. I think we are basically on the same page.
 
#99
#99
VOLtaism said:
My point was, while I am a steadfast 2nd amendment guy, I would do anything that would assure me tomorrow my kid was safe in school. I am on the side of the kids. These advocates of gun control are acting like banning AR-15's is the solution to the problem. Its not, the killers could still use hand guns or other weapons purchased legally or illegally. I need a real solution that solves the problem right away and so far there is only one.
Click to expand...

Don't be ridiculous. An assault rifle is a very dangerous weapon and to suggest that it wouldn't help curtain mass shootings is complete and utter nonsense. We're tired of hearing this "Gee, we really don't think there's anything to be done about it." Assault rifles were banned for a decade or so--and mass shootings went way down. They quite obviously should be banned. The notion that we should give more guns to more people to protect ourselves from all the fools roaming around with guns now is embarrassingly stupid.

The gun crowd likes to blather about how self-defense is important. Really? Then let's ban assault rifles AND handguns. If we did that, America would be IMMENSELY safer--but the gun crowd wouldn't go for it and pretend otherwise. "Uh, but what about knives; uh, but what about heavy pillows; uh, but what about metal chairs." There are a lot of seriously misguided and pathetic politicians in this country. Actually, they are the problem and so are the people they represent. When enough red-state kids get killed, the people and their pathetic political representatives might decide to stop showing the world what a backward country we've become.

One had to chuckle at the GOP legislature, which kicked out the two black members but not the white member. Classic! The 1950s are alive and well. There was no reason to expel the two members, obviously. But the Republicans were embarrassed and humiliated--as well they should be--by protest by the young people, and so like the lowlifes they are, had to lash out at those members who were rightly on the side of the kids and public safety.
 
#100
#100
VOLtaism said:
I have a legal Armilite Rifle AR-15. I am a law abiding gun owner. Why do you want my gun, I did nothing wrong? I will not debate why I have one or if I should have one because thats not applicable to the problem. If you ban AR-15's it will simply create a blackmarket for the weapons and they will actually become more easily available than before. There are so many guns out there that gun laws or even bans will not stop the killing. Propose an an action that is feasible and that will stop the killing and I will jump on your bandwagon. Crying for weapons ban is not a legitimate solution.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. Remind me again how these kids--and everybody is--is being killed? Oh, now I remember: They're being shot...with assault rifles. Your suggestion that a black market for assault rifles would make them more easily available than they are now--when anyone can buy one in a store--is utter nonsense. The gun crazies are quite well-practiced at spewing excuses for doing nothing. We've become a very backward country because we have a lot of backward people. The idea is for people and nations to become more advanced and civilized as time goes on. The U.S. is going in the opposite direction--mostly because we have a minority of politicians who pay no attention to what the majority wants or advocates. It's 2023. You're a "law-abiding gun owner," are you? So was the Las Vegas shooter. So was the individual who killed the kids in the Nashville school...until....
 
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