New Commit

[smokey0625]

So if the same board awarded me the Thorpe, would the claim that I am the best DB in the nation be beyond dispute?

Also, I have to ask for my sanity. Did they even consider you for the Thorpe Award? I mean you brought it up and I'm sorry if I have upset you about bringing up how they might have slighted you. That may explain your hatred for said Thorpe committee. I am on board with you now. That board is a bunch of jerks now that I know my beloved message board friend did not get nominated for the Thorpe Award. Or should I call it the Thorpe Crap Award? See how I'm on your side. I called it the Thorpe Crap Award.

 

[norriscraftbasser]

I believe Banks played hurt for half of the season but I could be wrong.

 

[EastT]

Is this still the "New Commit" thread, I was kinda hoping to read something about his on the field accomplishments or measurables.

 

[smokey0625]

Is this still the "New Commit" thread, I was kinda hoping to read something about his on the field accomplishments or measurables.

Yeah, I'm sorry but bammer wanted to discuss how good dbs were.

 

[bamawriter]

Tell you what, Smokey. Since you aren't comfortable with observations, I'll provide stats:

J. Banks performances in 2012 (with the ranking of the QB by passer rating, so one can appreciate whether the feat was terribly impressive or not):

vs. Jackson St - No interceptions, no passes defended (DII QB not ranked)
*In fairness to Banks, he barely played because of the level of competition.

vs. Auburn - 2 Ints, 0 PDs (K. Frazier did not play enough to qualify for ranking; out of all QBs who threw even a single pass, his ranking is 337/446)

vs. Troy - 0 Ints, 0 PDs (C. Robinson ranked 48th in nation)

vs. South Alabama - 1 Int, 2 PDs (R. Metheny ranked 103rd in nation)

vs. Kentucky - 0 Ints, 0 PDs (J Whitlow didn't qualify, but ranks 340/446; even worse than K Frazier)

vs. Tennessee - 0 Ints, 1 PD (T Bray ranked 30th in nation)

vs. MTSU - 1 Int, 2 PD (L Kilgore ranked 47th in nation)

vs. Alabama - 0 Ints, 0 PDs (A McCarron ranked 1st in nation)

vs. Texas A&M - 0 Ints, 0 PDs (J Manziel ranked 15th in nation)

vs. LSU - 0 Ints, 1 PDs (Z Mettenberger ranked 72nd in nation)

vs. Arkansas - 0 Ints, 0 PDs (T Wilson ranked 36th in nation)

vs. Ole Miss - 0 Ints, 1 PDs (B Wallace ranked 34th in nation)


Draw whatever conclusion you want. But "best in the country"? Please...

 

[bamawriter]

Yeah, I'm sorry but bammer wanted to discuss how good dbs were.

You brought it up.

 

[smokey0625]

You brought it up.

Do you honestly believe that stats determine if you are a good db? He dominated Tennessee. We didn't throw his way the entire game and he had a monstrous strip when we were attempting a comeback. He dominated the UT game. You have lost whatever credibility you had left after claiming that you should have won the Thorpe Award. Those stats are incredible though. I am impressed you knew how to attempt to present a reasonable argument with actual facts. However, facts don't determine if you are a good db. If a team doesn't throw at you then you don't get the picks. My boy is growing up though using his big boy arguments.

 

[bamawriter]

Do you honestly believe that stats determine if you are a good db? He dominated Tennessee. We didn't throw his way the entire game and he had a monstrous strip when we were attempting a comeback. He dominated the UT game.

Let me make sure I follow the steps in your debate:

- I make observations about multiple games that I watched, you say that's unpersuasive because he won an award

- I present stats, you say they don't determine how good of a DB you are

- You make observation of one game that you watched...

All you've done is confirmed what I said earlier: you only watched Banks in one game this entire year.

 

[smokey0625]

Let me make sure I follow the steps in your debate:

- I make observations about multiple games that I watched, you say that's unpersuasive because he won an award

- I present stats, you say they don't determine how good of a DB you are

- You make observation of one game that you watched...

All you've done is confirmed what I said earlier: you only watched Banks in one game this entire year.

I never said I only watched one game. You assumed. I said that I watched the UT game and you assume that my banks watching days died out like the dignity that you once had before you came on this thread. Also, I never claimed that I was a banks expert. I claimed that I was a Thorpe award winner expert. I claimed that that award is recognized by many throughout our country as the award that goes to the best db. I claimed that you sit say that you have seen multiple games but that isn't factual because it cannot be proven in a court of law much less on a message board. I claimed that I supported you in your complaint against the Thorpe committee because you demanded that you were good enough to win the award. You have yet to bring anything but interceptions stats to the table. As we have stated earlier, that is a terrible way of determining whether a db is good or not. I simply said that your argument is flawed because I know at least one time where the stats lie. You sir have been measured and found wanting.

 

[bamawriter]

I never said I only watched one game. You assumed.

Then break down the other games. So far you're produced two pieces to support your argument for Banks:

1. The Thorpe Award (logic only works if awards always go to the players they should; Charles Woodson says "hi")

2. The UT game (logic only works if this game was the norm for Banks, but it wasn't)

 

[smokey0625]

Then break down the other games. So far you're produced two pieces to support your argument for Banks:

1. The Thorpe Award (logic only works if awards always go to the players they should; Charles Woodson says "hi")

2. The UT game (logic only works if this game was the norm for Banks, but it wasn't)

I need no argument. He is the best. He has a nationally recognized trophy that says johnthan bank you are the best db in the country despite bammer's opinion that you were garbage in the fifteen games he saw you play. I paraphrased what the actual trophy said. You are upset because Sabans corners were not as good. It's alright bammer. You are in the dance versus the domers. Life is good for you. Enjoy the grass while you can because eventually satan will retire and gene stallings has or will pass away and won't retake the job. You cannot make an argument as to why banks is not the best other than the I don't think so. He has the hard ware and that's it. I bet you argue that Obama isn't really the president because you don't think so. I like your arguments though because all you have to do is say I don't think so and to you it's over. Good day sir and Wharton is awesome and will hopefully bring the best dbs to tennessee like banks from Miss State. Go butch and suck it all naysayers.

 

[bamawriter]

You are upset because Sabans corners were not as good.

Milliner is better than Banks. Milliner had better games against the teams that abused Banks.

But the Thorpe should have gone to the Thomas kid from Fresno St.

 

[VOODOOVOL]

No, I have an argument. You point to an award voted on by a board of guys in Oklahoma as inarguable proof that Banks was the best DB in the nation. You haven't actually talked about a single game, or a single play, to defend your position. I'm betting that's because you never watched Banks play other than the UT game.

If you think the award is determined by a board in Oklahoma, you're just ignorant.

 

[VOODOOVOL]

Milliner is better than Banks. Milliner had better games against the teams that abused Banks.

But the Thorpe should have gone to the Thomas kid from Fresno St.

So if I'm reading you correctly, you think you know more about football than the former players and coaches that voted for Banks?

 

[Jacksonvol]

3 losing seasons. If you want a team full of 5 stars go pull for Bama. You know the team full of 5 stars that were out played by an A&M team full of 3 stars. Maybe we should go and get some more 5 stars like Brice Brown, Nukeese Richardson, DaRick, or Janzen. See how good those turned out for us. Stars are not everything fellas.

:victory:

 

[VFL 24/7]

I don't see how he's a "big time" pickup.. 3 star recruited by vandy & miss. state. Wake me up when we gettn 4 and 5 star recrutis.

This is how far we have fallen, 3 star commits are "big time" now

 

[VonVol]

Just a thought here. Seems like using just interception and pass defended statistics doesn't really tell the whole story for a corner. I honestly didn't watch enough of Mississippi State to say one way or the other. I do know that a lot of the best corners don't get a ton of opportunities. Adding a players pass efficiency to the equation only seems to justify that thought. Wouldn't a qb who is smart and experienced avoid throwing his way? Wouldn't one who makes dumb decisions(Frazier) get burned by a good corner?
Another thing. Using an ESPN.com poll to say "America thought Millner was better" is just as silly as saying that awards always get it right. A bunch of Bammers voting over and over on their computer in their Mom's basement does not constitute America's choice. Just saying.

 

[bamawriter]

If you think the award is determined by a board in Oklahoma, you're just ignorant.

So if I'm reading you correctly, you think you know more about football than the former players and coaches that voted for Banks?

The board in OK selects the pre-season watchlist, the 10-12 semifinalists, and the 3 finalists. Then a whopping total of 50 people select from those three, and only from those three.

So yes, I think the award is determined by a board in Oklahoma.

 

[bamawriter]

Just a thought here. Seems like using just interception and pass defended statistics doesn't really tell the whole story for a corner. I honestly didn't watch enough of Mississippi State to say one way or the other. I do know that a lot of the best corners don't get a ton of opportunities. Adding a players pass efficiency to the equation only seems to justify that thought. Wouldn't a qb who is smart and experienced avoid throwing his way? Wouldn't one who makes dumb decisions(Frazier) get burned by a good corner?

Bama, A&M, LSU, and Ole Miss went after Banks all day long. None of those teams schemed around him. In fact, teams seemed to be more scared of Slay, the guy playing opposite of Banks.

 

[smokey0625]

Bama, A&M, LSU, and Ole Miss went after Banks all day long. None of those teams schemed around him. In fact, teams seemed to be more scared of Slay, the guy playing opposite of Banks.

Just proves my point genius. I said they had the two best corners and you just said that teams were afraid of the corner not named banks. If one corner won the Thorpe award and teams were worried about the other corner, then the math says two good corners. Does that mean that they have two of the best corners? The answer Trabec is what is yes? Insert foot into your mouth. Hahaha. Also, how do you know what teams were game planning? You are really good bammer. You get to game plan with every coach and find out who they were avoiding. That's awesome.

 

[bamawriter]

Just proves my point genius. I said they had the two best corners and you just said that teams were afraid of the corner not named banks. Does that mean that they two of the best corners? The answer Trabec is what is yes? Insert foot into your mouth. Hahaha

No, that would mean you could consider Slay to be one of the best corners, and Banks to be a liability on the deep ball and against play action.

MSU finished ranked 47th against the pass. Even with a below average pass rush, you don't wind up 47th if you have the best CB duo in the nation.

 

[smokey0625]

No, that would mean you could consider Slay to be one of the best corners, and Banks to be a liability on the deep ball and against play action.

I need an emoticon that is confused. Question, I said that? You bammer folk are good at reading into what people say. I thought I meant what is said but apparently I meant all that crap you said. You bammer folk are just too smart I guess. Let me speak slower for you. That...is...not...what...I...meant. Let me inform everyone of your résumé. Bammer should have won the Thorpe award (according to him), he has watched 27 films of Banks this past season, he game plans with other teams to see if they avoid Banks or Slay, and he has watched 31 films on Banks.

 

[VonVol]

Bama, A&M, LSU, and Ole Miss went after Banks all day long. None of those teams schemed around him. In fact, teams seemed to be more scared of Slay, the guy playing opposite of Banks.

Like I said,I didn't see two of those games at all. What you are saying could very well be the case. I'm just saying that a better statistic might be how many times he was targeted and how many yards he allowed. I honestly don't know who is better. I know Millner has a lot more talent around him than Banks does. Seems like Bama got burned deep more than usual this year. Although it did seem like it was Belue that was getting beat.

 

[bamawriter]

Like I said,I didn't see two of those games at all. What you are saying could very well be the case. I'm just saying that a better statistic might be how many times he was targeted and how many yards he allowed. I honestly don't know who is better. I know Millner has a lot more talent around him than Banks does. Seems like Bama got burned deep more than usual this year. Although it did seem like it was Belue that was getting beat.

Belue had a few bad moments this year. The second half of LSU and the first half of A&M were tough to watch. That said, he settled down against A&M and actually played okay in the second half. Too little too late though.

As for Banks, there are 2 TDs against Bama, 1 against A&M, 1 against LSU, and 3 against Ole Miss that were totally on him. That's not counting other big non-scoring plays. It was pretty much a given: if MSU's opponent made a bowl game, that opponent wore Banks out.

 

[bamawriter]

I need an emoticon that is confused. Question, I said that? You bammer folk are good at reading into what people say. I thought I meant what is said but apparently I meant all that crap you said.

Let me make it easier for you. I'll only copy the sentence you wrote that my comment directly referenced:

Does that mean that they have two of the best corners?

Which I followed up with:

No, that would mean you could consider Slay to be one of the best corners, and Banks to be a liability on the deep ball and against play action.

Since Banks is not one of the best corners, there is no scenario in which MSU has two of the best. And in reality, I don't think Slay is either, but he's better than Banks.