Nothing Against Coach Martin...

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#226
#226
oklavol said:
Hinson coached there 9 seasons. He never had a losing season over 9 years.
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First, this appears to be false. In 2000-2001 they finished 13-16, from what I can find.

Second, Hinson's best record in 9 seasons was 23 wins. Martin won 24 and 26 the last two seasons.

I'm not sure you can make a case that Martin is a great up-and-coming coach yet; but it appears to be pretty easy to make the case that Martin is better than Hinson.
 
#227
#227
StepCross said:
First, this appears to be false. In 2000-2001 they finished 13-16, from what I can find.

Second, Hinson's best record in 9 seasons was 23 wins. Martin won 24 and 26 the last two seasons.

I'm not sure you can make a case that Martin is a great up-and-coming coach yet; but it appears to be pretty easy to make the case that Martin is better than Hinson.
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I think that is completely fair. I'm not saying Hinson is better then Martin, he's obviously not, Martin did a better job. I'm just saying the rebuilding job Martin did at Missouri State is a little overstated. His main goal there was to make the NCAA tournament.
 
#228
#228
oklavol said:
I think that is completely fair. I'm not saying Hinson is better then Martin, he's obviously not, Martin did a better job. I'm just saying the rebuilding job Martin did at Missouri State is a little overstated. His main goal there was to make the NCAA tournament.
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How many coaches have taken a last place team to on the bubble in 3 years?
Any stats on that?
 
#229
#229
oklavol said:
I think that is completely fair. I'm not saying Hinson is better then Martin, he's obviously not, Martin did a better job. I'm just saying the rebuilding job Martin did at Missouri State is a little overstated. His main goal there was to make the NCAA tournament.
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And he won his conference this year for the first time in school history. The team tripped up in the conference tournament, but Martin was getting them close. You have to finish the job and winning the regular season is clearly not enough - but I think that Mo St was quite happy with his progress toward getting them to the NCAAs.
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#230
#230
oklavol said:
I'm going strictly by the numbers of the two coaches, you ae the one struggling to be objective.
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Right. Find a post where I've touted Martin or said he's going to win championships. Discounting the roster situation is the epitome of taking things out of context to try to reflect your opinion on the hire.
 
#231
#231
TennTradition said:
And he won his conference this year for the first time in school history. The team tripped up in the conference tournament, but Martin was getting them close. You have to finish the job and winning the regular season is clearly not enough - but I think that Mo St was quite happy with his progress toward getting them to the NCAAs.
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They didn't get invited to the NCAA tournament even though they won the conference. They choked in the NCAA tournament, they were the favorite to win it.

He showed improvement in games won each year.
 
#232
#232
LawVol13 said:
Right. Find a post where I've touted Martin or said he's going to win championships. Discounting the roster situation is the epitome of taking things out of context to try to reflect your opinion on the hire.
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Yes he had 5 scholarship players his first season and went 11-22 with them. Wow that is so impressive.
 
#233
#233
oklavol said:
Yes he had 5 scholarship players his first season and went 11-22 with them. Wow that is so impressive.
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No, but winning 24 and 26 his last two seasons considering the roster situation he inherited is impressive. That's why comparing his overall record to Hinson doesn't reflect reality.
 
#234
#234
oklavol said:
They didn't get invited to the NCAA tournament even though they won the conference. They choked in the NCAA tournament, they were the favorite to win it.

He showed improvement in games won each year.
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If we had to rely on winning the conference tournament to go dancing, we'd certainly have had more free time the last six Marches. Pearl improved our team and increased our odds of winning our conf tournament. It never happened, but he clearly improved our team. A lot can go wrong in a tournament. Slamming Martin because he and his team dropped the ball in this years tournament is only so fair. While you want a coach that can finish, we haven't had one for the past 6 years. Hopefully Martin can learn how.
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#236
#236
oklavol said:
They weren't last place until Martin's first season, they were 17-16 the year before.
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Right. It's a shame that Martin didn't take advantage of that stacked roster that Hinson left him. Really disappointing.
 
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#237
#237
LawVol13 said:
That just goes to show you what other people think of your "opinions."
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I was told no one wanted to sort through my arguments to find information on our new coach. This was in a thread titled Clay Travis Pooped the bed and was currently discussing sports cities.

On topic, I don't see how anyone can really have an opinion on Martin. He seems like a good human being. That would make me lean towards less success at UT. He did a good job in 3 years at MO state of winning games. He certainly doesnt have much of a track record to debate.
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#238
#238
LawVol13 said:
Right. It's a shame that Martin take advantage of that stacked roster that Hinson left him. Really disappointing.
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Do you say Martin had 5 scholarship players in every one of your posts? Why dont you make that the footnote under all of them.

I'm sure you will want to leave out that 11-22 record he got with them.
 
#239
#239
oklavol said:
Do you say Martin had 5 scholarship players in every one of your posts? Why dont you make that the footnote under all of them.

I'm sure you will want to leave out that 11-22 record he got with them.
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When I see you grossly take things out of context and act as if Martin was responsible for the destruction of the program his first year, I will respond in a similar fashion.
 
#240
#240
oklavol said:
Do you say Martin had 5 scholarship players in every one of your posts? Why dont you make that the footnote under all of them.

I'm sure you will want to leave out that 11-22 record he got with them.
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You really don't see the disadvantage in having a bench full of non-scholarship players?
 
#242
#242
TennTradition said:
If we had to rely on winning the conference tournament to go dancing, we'd certainly have had more free time the last six Marches. Pearl improved our team and increased our odds of winning our conf tournament. It never happened, but he clearly improved our team. A lot can go wrong in a tournament. Slamming Martin because he and his team dropped the ball in this years tournament is only so fair. While you want a coach that can finish, we haven't had one for the past 6 years. Hopefully Martin can learn how.
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In NCAA basketball, as we all know, comes down to winning the games when everything is on the line, to me he hasn't shown he can do that.

JZVOL said:
You really don't see the disadvantage in having a bench full of non-scholarship players?
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I see it, I just don't think going 11-22 with 5 scholarship players as the miracle job people here seem to believe it was.
 
#244
#244
He's basically had two legitimate shots at the NCAAs.

He lost his conference tournament in his second year, with a team that *could* have won it, and then this year with a team that should have won it.

That's not many data points.

He's gone to two post-season tournaments. He won one, lost in the first round of the next.

Again, not many data points.
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#247
#247
LawVol13 said:
No one did. Just another gross exaggeration.
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I don't agree with this guys assertion that having a poor first season makes him a bad coach, but I definitely see the skepticism in Martins entire record. It's hard to defend him. It's also hard to bash him.
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#248
#248
HendersonVol said:
I don't agree with this guys assertion that having a poor first season makes him a bad coach, but I definitely see the skepticism in Martins entire record. It's hard to defend him. It's also hard to bash him.
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There shouldn't be skepticism at all of the guy's record. What can be taken from his record is that he did a pretty damn good job at Missouri State considering what he inherited. Where the skepticism should come in is when we consider, 1) can he win at this level; 2) can he recruit at this level. The Missouri State record is a positive not a negative.
 
#249
#249
LawVol13 said:
There shouldn't be skepticism at all of the guy's record. What can be taken from his record is that he did a pretty damn good job at Missouri State considering what he inherited. Where the skepticism should come in is when we consider, 1) can he win at this level; 2) can he recruit at this level. The Missouri State record is a positive not a negative.
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It's obviously better than if he went .500 for 3 straight years. It certainly doesn't insinuate that he will have any shred of success here. Hopefully, his nice guy image doesn't keep him from rolling in the mud a little.
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