Obamacare already having effects

#53
#53
hog88 said:
Why would I bring that money back to the US and give 1/3 to Uncle Sam?
Click to expand...

That's a good question, but I think it's off topic a bit. I believe we are discussing the ability of companies to pass on health care cost increases wholesale. I think it will be difficult in this environment.

I also think a public option would control the costs everyone is worried about.

Here's a question for everyone - you get 2 choices (a) or (b) with no inbetween -

(a) we get ACA like it was passed
(b) we get ACA with public option

Which is better for business and why? And they both suck isn't an answer - I get that probably everone on this board with few exceptions would take that choice.
 
#54
#54
BigPapaVol said:
you serious
Click to expand...

Sure. Business exists to make money. They will continue to fight to make money no matter what rules or regulations are thrown in front of them. Does that make regulation good - not always. But I don't think something like increased health care costs is the deth knell in our economy.
 
#55
#55
You could "do the right and ethical thing" for your employees, and STILL turn a great profit, as hundreds of thousands of businesses already do... But that's not the American way.

Every man for himself!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#56
#56
TruthIsOutThere said:
Sure. Business exists to make money. They will continue to fight to make money no matter what rules or regulations are thrown in front of them. Does that make regulation good - not always. But I don't think something like increased health care costs is the deth knell in our economy.
Click to expand...

Less sick and dead Americans = More customers

Healthier employees = Happier employees
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#57
#57
Orlando Vol said:
BTW, this a complete and total BS cop out by PJs.

The cost of food is skyrocketing for Papa Johns right now. Cheese has nearly doubled in 2 years. Anything related to cow is sky rocketing right now because of the drought.

Blame that on Obama! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Well he owns the economy...and the climate...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#58
#58
TruthIsOutThere said:
Sure. Business exists to make money. They will continue to fight to make money no matter what rules or regulations are thrown in front of them. Does that make regulation good - not always. But I don't think something like increased health care costs is the deth knell in our economy.
Click to expand...

increasing costs of employment will hurt employment

Take a look at the 1937-38 recession which was caused by increasing taxes and the adding of Social Security. Sounds familiar to whats happening now doesnt it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#59
#59
VolsNSkinsFan said:
increasing costs of employment will hurt employment

Take a look at the 1937-38 recession which was caused by increasing taxes and the adding of Social Security. Sounds familiar to whats happening now doesnt it?
Click to expand...

Sure - but didn't business adapt and move on? Thrive even?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I believe uncertainty is more painful that anything. I think business can cope with and handle certainty with cost increases easier than complete uncertainty which is rampant in this political environment.
 
#60
#60
TruthIsOutThere said:
Sure. Business exists to make money. They will continue to fight to make money no matter what rules or regulations are thrown in front of them. Does that make regulation good - not always. But I don't think something like increased health care costs is the deth knell in our economy.
Click to expand...

businesses aren't just these generic entities that operate as money printers. Businesses are the riskiest investment in the world. The capital that makes them happen requires returns. What happens to the return hurdles in an inflationary environment?

We need investment capital to generate jobs, yet we're inducing inflation while also asking those making the investments to pay more taxes, further raising the bar. Good luck with that pitch to the investors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#61
#61
TruthIsOutThere said:
Sure - but didn't business adapt and move on? Thrive even?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I believe uncertainty is more painful that anything. I think business can cope with and handle certainty with cost increases easier than complete uncertainty which is rampant in this political environment.
Click to expand...

existing businesses can, but you're forgetting that our Capitalistic market is steeped in the base capital that makes businesses go. We are setting all sorts of incremental hurdles to investing, which is exactly the opposite of what we need to generate jobs.
 
#63
#63
BigPapaVol said:
businesses aren't just these generic entities that operate as money printers. Businesses are the riskiest investment in the world. The capital that makes them happen requires returns. What happens to the return hurdles in an inflationary environment?

We need investment capital to generate jobs, yet we're inducing inflation while also asking those making the investments to pay more taxes, further raising the bar. Good luck with that pitch to the investors.
Click to expand...

Would you draw a distinction between large business and small business in this assessment? I can see it potentiall hurting small business more.
 
#64
#64
TruthIsOutThere said:
Sure - but didn't business adapt and move on? Thrive even?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I believe uncertainty is more painful that anything. I think business can cope with and handle certainty with cost increases easier than complete uncertainty which is rampant in this political environment.
Click to expand...

If that's the rationale, let's tax business at 100% and watch them thrive!
 
#65
#65
TruthIsOutThere said:
Would you draw a distinction between large business and small business in this assessment? I can see it potentiall hurting small business more.
Click to expand...

No, it will discourage hiring for both. It's a small buisness killer.
 
#66
#66
BigPapaVol said:
existing businesses can, but you're forgetting that our Capitalistic market is steeped in the base capital that makes businesses go. We are setting all sorts of incremental hurdles to investing, which is exactly the opposite of what we need to generate jobs.
Click to expand...

Also, Face Book just raised 16 Billion through an IPO. Could it be that invesors are just dumb?

I've contunued to invest in Wal-Mart and while it's far from sexy, I've made great returns over the last year.
 
#67
#67
TruthIsOutThere said:
Also, Face Book just raised 16 Billion through an IPO. Could it be that invesors are just dumb?

I've contunued to invest in Wal-Mart and while it's far from sexy, I've made great returns over the last year.
Click to expand...

Yes!!!! There is a whole lot of folks making millions off of naive investors.
 
#69
#69
golfballs said:
If that's the rationale, let's tax business at 100% and watch them thrive!
Click to expand...

That would be dumb. But I do believe business evolves. As much as a micro organism in some cases. Add a stimuli (positive or negative) and the organism doesn't necessarily go extinct - it adapts and moves on. If it does go extinct - it is replaced by something else that thrives in it's place.

I think the biggest problem is that Papa Johns makes ****ty pizza.... :)
 
#70
#70
TruthIsOutThere said:
Also, Face Book just raised 16 Billion through an IPO. Could it be that invesors are just dumb?

I've contunued to invest in Wal-Mart and while it's far from sexy, I've made great returns over the last year.
Click to expand...

Investors are prone to market exuberance, especially when it comes to media darling IPOs. They're fortunate to have many agencies vetting investments for them prior to IPOs, or they'd get killed.

That's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about investors in individual businesses - professional types. The guys who do due diligence on financials and business verticals and management quality and vendor capabilities and such. Those guys, along with debt providers who require coverage ratios and the like make our job market happen by betting on individual companies. They make the bets for returns. Those returns are risk adjusted for everyone in the investment stack. Inflation reduces income into the investee company while simultaneously necessitating larger returns for the investors. That's burning the candle at both ends and it's an enormous problem for the community investing in the small and midsize businesses that employ the majority of Americans.
 
#71
#71
hog88 said:
No, it will discourage hiring for both. It's a small buisness killer.
Click to expand...

There is an example floating around where a small business may not hire their 50th employee because of the ACA. Ok, if a business want's to quit growing due to a law, doesn't that leave room for another business to enter the market?
 
#72
#72
TruthIsOutThere said:
Would you draw a distinction between large business and small business in this assessment? I can see it potentiall hurting small business more.
Click to expand...

it hurts hiring, period. Big companies and small ones alike view investments in their future on a risk weighted, cash flow basis. Big ones grow and hire by investing just like the small ones do.
 
#73
#73
TruthIsOutThere said:
That would be dumb. But I do believe business evolves. As much as a micro organism in some cases. Add a stimuli (positive or negative) and the organism doesn't necessarily go extinct - it adapts and moves on. If it does go extinct - it is replaced by something else that thrives in it's place.
Click to expand...
this suggests some sort of short term business cycle. That suggestion is wrong. The analogy is also a very tough fit. Some businesses evolve and some die. The replacement piece is the problem. Identifying new markets doesn't just happen. It damn sure doesn't happen without a truckload of capital investment.
 
#74
#74
BigPapaVol said:
Investors are prone to market exuberance, especially when it comes to media darling IPOs. They're fortunate to have many agencies vetting investments for them prior to IPOs, or they'd get killed.

That's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about investors in individual businesses - professional types. The guys who do due diligence on financials and business verticals and management quality and vendor capabilities and such. Those guys, along with debt providers who require coverage ratios and the like make our job market happen by betting on individual companies. They make the bets for returns. Those returns are risk adjusted for everyone in the investment stack. Inflation reduces income into the investee company while simultaneously necessitating larger returns for the investors. That's burning the candle at both ends and it's an enormous problem for the community investing in the small and midsize businesses that employ the majority of Americans.
Click to expand...

So, it comes back to the question - what do they do with their money then? Just sit on it and make 0? I understand risk, but is ACA really the biggest cause of the risk? I can think of quite a few other things.

Is your basic argumen that the ACA is killing investment, or that there are just too many laws/regs (period) that are killing it. WIth the burning the candle at both ends analogy, it sound like the latter and that you just see the ACA as adding to the pile. Am I right?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top