Official Brexit Referendum Discussion

Nationalism at it peak caused WWII.

Nationalism was also the reason why Britain held the line against the Germans until the US got involved. Nationalism kept the French resistance fighting even after occupation. Nationalism kept hope alive in Belgium, the Netherlands, and other parts of Europe that continued to resist the Nazis. Yes nationalism can be bad if used in the wrong hands but it can also be a force for good too.
 
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The Brexit is a microcosm of everything wrong with Western democracy [sic].

First, there was no burning desire for a referendum. About 6 million strongly wanted it to begin with. Less than 10% - I won't call it an insignificant minority but no real momentum at all.

This was all about a power play with the Tory party where the Brit equivalent of Donald Trump has come out the victor. It's faux-democracy at its finest.

Those who voted to Leave were found Googling "What is the EU?" Cornwall voted strongly to Leave and then immediately begged to keep their £60M investment grant from Europe. What actually happened was a vote against the status quo from people who have long been disenfranchised with the political system and rightly so. Once again - INEQUALITY is the only politics that matter in the world right now (well, really since the Agricultural Revolution).

Which brings us to the Left [sic] and Europe itself. Despite a broad coalition of the young, what people call the Left, and half the Tory government no one was able to communicate successfully to the disenfranchised a message of why the EU was important. Which is because the EU is, in the main, an unequal alliance whose only real mission is to privilege German and French bankers and investor classes. Who, by the way, had short-term windfalls betting on the predictable decline in a fiat currency (a practice that would be illegal in any sensible and fair and merit-based government in the world).

Western democracy [sic] is broken (see Trump, Clinton for more details). Inequality is the only politics worth talking about in the world. The Brexit started as an internal power struggle amongst a party that, really, represents no more than 10% of Britain. Nobody actually has any idea what will happen.

The most likely outcome is at least a partial privatization of the NHS - which will be a disaster for Britain. History will trace back to the Brexit and the upcoming Trump victory as the final discrediting of the 1% parties in Western democracies which have ruled since the mid-1970s - much like Russian tanks rolling through Prague discredited the Left to this day.

And then Britain, as it was the center of the Industrial Revolution, will find itself the center of the New Left. Brexit / Trump victory / 50 years of neoliberalism will revitalise and reinvigorate Leftist movements everywhere. The yoke of Stalinism will be gone and forgotten, and the new Left with new ideas will rise. Although the Latin American Leftist movements will actually be the movers and shakers, Britain will find itself once again at the center of a Western revolution.

Of course, it will be too late as we will be beyond 450ppm CO2 - well beyond the point of no return for human timescales - and the world will be doomed to be much poorer, much more crowded, much more brutish, nasty, and short.

Only 10% wanted it, yet 70% of the population voted on it, with 52% saying leave? Might want to check your math.

A couple of false conclusions, their health care has already failed. And the EU was keeping them from restructuring. Privatizing may not happen and probably won't fix it but it's not the cause you are looking for.

Also a lot more than French and German bankers were betting on a fall. And a lot of those same guys betted both ways so they couldn't lose. Keep making up talking points. Anybody with half a braincell knew their finicials were going to take a reactionary hit.

When was the last time the Latin American leftists did anything, anything, of world value?
 
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Nothing like moving the goal posts when something doesn't go in your favor...

Brexit: Do you #Regrexit? - CNNPolitics.com



So someone didn't get the outcome they desired, so they change the parameters of the voting as well as the percentage. Almost sounds very Harry Reid like.

Remember the guy who would say "We'll flip for it" and after losing said "well, two out of three?"
 
I'm all for people's right to self determination. The larger the government and bureaucracy the more folks tend to get disenfranchised because they feel their vote doesn't count.
 
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Nothing like moving the goal posts when something doesn't go in your favor...

Brexit: Do you #Regrexit? - CNNPolitics.com



So someone didn't get the outcome they desired, so they change the parameters of the voting as well as the percentage. Almost sounds very Harry Reid like.

An interesting read. Granted they only found a few people and tweets with "regret", but I was suprised to see people saying they wouldn't have voted that way if they knew the outcome. Um, what? Your vote counts dummy. Were you voting as a prank? Were you voting to be ironic? They all count. I also don't think immediately following something like this any doomsday scenarios should be taken seriously. A lot of people that lost are bitter and attempting to foment panic and a revote.
 
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I made it all the way to "It's faux-democracy at its finest." And I can usually wade through almost everything.

Man the left is just doing whatever they can to gin up some good old fashioned fear mongering in an attempt to marginalize a free peoples right to vote and its outcome. Pat yourselves on the back morons.

Brexit is the biggest step backward since World War II - CNN.com

Only 10% wanted it, yet 70% of the population voted on it, with 52% saying leave? Might want to check your math.

A couple of false conclusions, their health care has already failed. And the EU was keeping them from restructuring. Privatizing may not happen and probably won't fix it but it's not the cause you are looking for.

Also a lot more than French and German bankers were betting on a fall. And a lot of those same guys betted both ways so they couldn't lose. Keep making up talking points. Anybody with half a braincell knew their finicials were going to take a reactionary hit.

When was the last time the Latin American leftists did anything, anything, of world value?

I have to address a theme being repeated throughout this thread. These are just examples, and maybe not the best, of a few consistent themes.

First, this vote was firmly against the status quo. As I mentioned most of the "Leavers" don't even know what the EU is. I don't blame them - most of the "Remainers" don't know why it would be good to Remain in the EU - at least they couldn't communicate one.

As here - as far as I can tell no one has enunciated one cogent fact or thought on either side of this debate. Not one single meaningful thought / fact on why it was good to Leave, why it was good to Remain. Faux-democracy at its finest. No one is informed and our "choices" are a coin flip.

The principle of Brexit is retrograde and conservative. It's not necessarily wrong but there is no denying it is retrograde. Personally, if we have liberated Capital, it is time to liberate people too. Free movement of all peoples everywhere. In a world of fierce Capitalist Inequality, Europe seems to be doing this as well / better than anyone else. Tear down those walls on the Rio Grande - BOTH WAYS. Once we could cross into Canada with less than a driver's license.

The world has global problems. It needs global citizens. That requires a New Woman and New Man. Akerloff's lemons, unfortunately, apply to people, even elites, as we have seen in glorious technicolor. Capitalism's relentless drive to lemons has affected people and culture too.
 
The final result was 17,410,742 votes for Leave (51.9 per cent) compared to 16,141,241 for Remain (48.1 per cent), on a turnout of 72 per cent.

That's really some crazy results. I mean for a vote of something of this magnitude and the results being so close they should have scrapped it. Leaving a union should be something on the lines of 65% maybe 70% or higher in favor. I mean there should be something really wrong going on and it should involve a good majority of the population.
 
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I know most conservatives are emotionally driven and are easy prey.. just ask Trump. Saying conservatives and liberals coming together to leave... come on man.. you guys are just getting ridiculous.

I know most libs are emotionally driven and never believe or look for the truth.. Just ask obozo's and hilLIARy. Workplace violence,video,no Islamic radicals, emails, guns, unemployment, illegal aliens

The obozo and hilLIARy love their blind sheep
 
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I'm arrogant in the sense I have no respect for the bashing of those that don't look like us for our own shortcomings.

You bashed people for being uneducated and of the working class.

Someone that's not like you. Someone who may not look like you or live the same lifestyle as you do.You are a bigot.

You are advocating class separation, as a great majority of poor working class people are of a different color you are a racist.

Are you also going to advocate extermination of working class people like the nazis did Jews?

Do you believe working class people should not have the right to vote?
 
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You bashed people for being uneducated and of the working class.

Someone that's not like you. Someone who may not look like you or live the same lifestyle as you do.You are a bigot.

You are advocating class separation, as a great majority of poor working class people are of a different color you are a racist.

Are you also going to advocate extermination of working class people like the nazis did Jews?

Do you believe working class people should not have the right to vote?

His mom once told him if you wanna live in the basement, you will be a democrat and a gator fan.
 
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The Netherlands will be holding their EU referendum within the next 12 months.

Any thoughts on the outcome? I would imagine that the Dutch, which have a fairly high standard of living and are great at trade, would favor leaving since they probably give more then they receive from the EU.
 
Here is a breakdown of the givers and takers...I would imagine that Poland would vote to stay 99% to 1% they seem to have the best deal...also notice that Belgium(head of the EU) also is a taker.
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