Official "eat crow" because Butch was hired here thread

#401
#401
chavisut said:
Charlie Strong won a BCS game in three years. Did Butch?

Oh wait, head to head is the true measure. Damn the time frame and circumstances.

Tommy Tuberville is better than Nick Saban ya'll.
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I'm actually more of a Strong fan myself. Just sayin...
 
#402
#402
hohenfelsvol said:
You're thinking too deep. Looking at head to head stats over three years is an indication and a trend. I agree there are many other variables but that one variable cannot be discounted. I'm only speaking to the head to head record. In the end, fifty years from now, that is all someone will see. Not if it was snowing, or a key player was hurt, or Butch felt off that day because he couldn't make it to the barber.
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Fifty years from now Tubs is better than Saban? You can find many head to heads where the coach ahead is not better than the other.

Three years doesn't prove Butch is better than Strong was my point and I still believe that.
 
#403
#403
chavisut said:
Fifty years from now Tubs is better than Saban? You can find many head to heads where the coach ahead is not better than the other.

You asked for a three year turn around and Strong did just that.
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Strong is bald. How about them apples?
 
#405
#405
chavisut said:
Who had their team more turned around after three years? Who won a BCS game?

So, is Butch better because he went 2-1 against Strong, even though Strong reached higher success.
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I would say they pretty much equivalent. If Cinci had won that UL game in overtime, they would have been in the BCS game. You're pretty much splitting hairs by this point in the argument.
 
#409
#409
chavisut said:
Ifs and buts and all that jazz.
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Yah. The point being that Cinci took them to OT, so it was close-- thus the "splitting hairs" and "equivalent" addition.

They have shown themselves as pretty equivalent so far. Time will tell.

I believe that they are both quality coaches. I would have been excited to get CCS. After looking at his resume, I am excited to have CBJ. Time will tell the tale for both of them.

:hi:
 
#410
#410
Orange_Crush said:
Yah. The point being that Cinci took them to OT, so it was close-- thus the "splitting hairs" and "equivalent" addition.

They have shown themselves as pretty equivalent so far. Time will tell.

I believe that they are both quality coaches. I would have been excited to get CCS. After looking at his resume, I am excited to have CBJ. Time will tell the tale for both of them.

:hi:
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I know. I was just messin. I always liked Strong, but in hindsight I wished Cincy had one that game. Would be another pitch for CBJ with recruits.
 
#412
#412
VKAman said:
This made sense. But I'll assume you're talking about Escape Goat, since he brought it up.



Here is what my stance is based on.

Record pre-arrival
Jones: 12-1, 7-0 Big East
Strong: 4-8, 1-6 Big East

Record in last season
Jones: 10-3, Belk Bowl
Strong: 11-2, Sugar Bowl

Record vs. Big East
Jones: 12-9 (when inheriting a team that had gone 17-4 the three seasons prior)
Strong: 13-8 (inheriting 5-16)

Record vs. teams with 8+ wins
Jones: 2-13
Strong: 8-4

You're certainly free to think what you want to think, but to me it's pretty obvious.
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Even though I don't like comparing the two because both are good coaches IMO.

Jones had a rebuilding job when he first came to Cincinatti. A lot of the best players left or graduated. Records never tell the whole story. No one expected him to turn around Cincinatti as fast as he did. That's coming from a Cincy writer too, not a vol writer or fan.

Also with the record argument. I saw that Charlie Strong was 6-8 against teams with 8 or more wins. Including 4 losses to teams with losing records.

Butch Jones had 7 of those 13 losses in his first year as a head coach at Cincy. His losses to the 2 8+ winners in 2011 came without Zac Collaros, who got injured and was never fully healty.
 
#414
#414
hohenfelsvol said:
Well, if they are in the same conference it's about as close to apples vs apples as you can get.
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Agree. If you play pretty much the same competition and play head 2 head 3 times that's a pretty valid sample size. I'll take the guy who won 2 of 3 and lost the third in OT. Could just be me.
 
#415
#415
BaldBiker said:
Can you break down who the teams were? Since, apparently this dead horse is going to continue to be beaten, let's at least see who they were. A win against...say... an 8+ win Murry St. wouldn't carry as weight as a win against a bigger name school.
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That's not good for Jones, since one of his two wins of that nature was over a 10-4 Miami of Ohio team. (The other was 8-5 NC State.) I don't remember all of Strong's off the top of my head, and it may actually be 9-4 after beating Florida, but you guys are free to look those up.
 
#417
#417
Orange_Crush said:
It's been well documented that Brian Kelly left UC with a LOT of roster problems, especially on defense. I don't really feel like going back and finding the posts, but I posted the references and documentation in two separate threads within the last month. Feel free to go dig them out.

In any event, the team that CBJ inherited was NOT an 11-1 roster, and he had a bit of a rebuild on his hands.
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Do you think he inherited a roster equivalent to a team that had gone 5-16 in the Big East the last three years?
 
#418
#418
VKAman said:
Do you think he inherited a roster equivalent to a team that had gone 5-16 in the Big East the last three years?
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I haven't compared the rosters in detail. I do know that his first roster was described as such by Cinci media coverage that followed the year (note the descriptions of "stunning" and "catastrophic"):

Quote:
Throughout my postmortum on the Bowl-less campaign of 2010 a couple of themes have begun to make their presence know. First among them is the stunning lack of general depth on the roster, while this deficit is visible at all positions, it is along the lines, both offensive and defensive where this issue came to bear most emphatically.


Quote:
...

The biggest issue with the defensive line last year, in my opinion at least, was a catastrophic lack of depth, and that was something that became apparent pretty early in the season.


Quote:

...

The bottom line though is that Kelly reached on a lot of defensive line prospects, he certainly didn't recruit that position group at a BCS level. He reached on a lot of kids, most of whom are likely to be back ups at best going forward.


Grading The Defensive Line - Down The Drive
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So, what's your point? Both inherited a rebuild at some level. CBJ went 2-1 against CCS with a single overtime loss. I've made the statement that I see the two coaches as pretty equivalent to one another. But I've noted that, due to head-to-head records, both with rebuilding jobs, it is not at all "laughable" if someone were to consider CBJ the better coach.

What else do you want?
 
#420
#420
chavisut said:
I know. I was just messin. I always liked Strong, but in hindsight I wished Cincy had one that game. Would be another pitch for CBJ with recruits.
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What pitch??? "Yeah I beat a big east team 3/3 times." ????? Yeah I bet that would work....
 
#423
#423
Spartacavolus said:
How many people actually give a ****? You and who else?
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Well, for someone who doesn't give a ****, you're pretty emotional about it.

Then again, you've been b*tching about pretty much everything lately. If you're having a bad week or something, I'm sorry, but like I said I'm not the one that brought it up.
 
#424
#424
chavisut said:
Why do you give a **** if he gives a ****?
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Same reason why you give a **** if I give a **** about him giving a ****.
It was the first thing that came to my mind when I read his post.

Doesn't mean I'm angry by any means. Got a puppy in my lap. Just the first thing that popped in.
 
#425
#425
VKAman said:
Well, for someone who doesn't give a ****, you're pretty emotional about it.

Then again, you've been b*tching about pretty much everything lately. If you're having a bad week or something, I'm sorry, but like I said I'm not the one that brought it up.
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It was the first thing I thought of man. Not emotional. Calm down. Sitting here looking at all this positive recruiting stuff where I am and you are arguing about stuff that happened years ago at another school. I thought the argument was silly, and I don't believe many people really care about what you are debating at this time, as it correlates to our current football situation at UT.
Instead of explaining all of that, I just said who gives a ****.
 
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