Okay I was a bit harsh on Dooley.....

[sjt18]

This whole post is a troll...unless your about to post your entire military record on volnation you cant prove any of what you said. But commanding a military unit has nothing to do with coaching in the SEC, besides having leadership skills. Which is one very small part of the equation.

You really think leadership is a very small part of the "equation" for a HC? You are the one who felt compelled to dismiss my opinion with a wave of your hand. My only intent was to answer THAT.

Also if you truly did have all that experience, you would not be such an arse to people with differing opinions then you.

Timeout. You wrote about my opinions being "shat" and basically that I was too ignorant to respond to you about football... with others chiming in to ask if I know this is a message board... But I am the one being an "arse to people with differing opinions"? This whole exchange started because you were an "arse to" someone with an opinion that differed from YOURS.

As part of leadership is to accept and understand other peoples point of view and use that incorporated into your own actions. When you are more of the type that says your point of view is the only correct one. Successful commanders and business owners do not operate that way, or they would not stay in those positions very long.

I can absolutely assure you that my employees can and do convince me on a daily basis to choose their ideas over mine. In fact, as long as an idea will work... I'd rather let people use an idea that they believe in and have ownership of. I surround myself with competent people, let them know expectations, then let them do their jobs. If someone is the type that has to be baby sat or have someone else thing for them... They don't survive long working for me.

FWIW though... there are LOTS of successful leaders who operate like tyrants. It is very, very difficult to pull off... but they do exist. They NEVER exist long without success though. Take a guy like Patton.

Message boards as you know aren't real life. Most of us would probably never argue in real life.

The day you can make me angry over a post on a message board is the day I quite the internet all together .

Not angry. This is fun. It is like a relief valve. I enjoy sparring with you guys. There are only two folks here that I even have a slight degree of dislike for... maybe a couple more during my whole time posting here though thousands have come and gone. Only twice have I put someone on "ignore".

And to say you do not troll when instead of having an actual discussion all you do is put people down and make fun of them is laughable at best. Making fun of other people and passing opinions off as facts (I.E. your math and history coward comment) are not valid debate tactics.

So I would be accurate saying you trolled here? So a simple math calculation vs wishful thinking isn't a matter of facts? If not... let me see your version of math that gets UT to a top 10 much less top 5 class. There has been one class according to Rivals to make the top 10 without having a star avg above 3.5. Miami did it while signing 33 players.

They are however the common tactics used by trolls and bullies. So go ahead and try to convince yourself you never troll. Your actions say otherwise.

Again, so you are trolling and bullying now? Is having a different opinion or style of writing unacceptable because you say so? That IS where this all started you know?

What is it called when a person demands a standard of someone else that they don't apply to themselves?

 

[sjt18]

Be interesting to see how may assistants UT went through from 2009 to 2013.. He number could be 20 or more

Could be. I don't know. Dooley was probably cooked by the end of '11... but he was definitely done when Wilcox walked.

 

[KoachKletus]

29 more days...................................................

 

[BornAndRaisedVOL!]

I agree that the buyout should have never been what it was. But I was here when it was being negotiated and UT really had no choice. They'd gone down the "list" and been turned down by several coaches. IIRC, that included Marrone and Muschamp. They got to Dooley who was willing to take the job for less money than others... but being a lawyer he "wisely" wanted and got a big buyout.

I'm not arguing that he should/should not have been given a buyout. In the coaching profession for college & NFL, it's "the price of doing business" so to speak.

My point is that he was paid more than 99% of Americans for three years and most accounts indicate that he was incompetent from the beginning. Once we decided that he would never become competent, he was paid more than a lot of people make in a lifetime because that was what he negotiated. Good for him, bad for us. In my view, he was well compensated for whatever humiliation/pain & suffering/PTSD/erectile dysfunction he had to endure because he sucked at his job.

Call me crazy, but I'll reserve my sympathy for people who really DO get the sh!t end of the stick.

:hi:

 

[BowlBrother85]

This is so sad. Move on people. The guy did his best and it wasn't good enough. He did a lot of good as well as bad. He jeopardized his health and put his self in the line of fire so you could sit on a computer and *****. He upgraded the facilities, started some good programs, and brought in some good talent, he wasn't able to make the most of that talent, but he did give it a go...it just wasn't good enough. That was a potent high scoring offense he fielded. We paid him for his efforts and he moved on, so should you. Just get on with your lives.

He upgraded the facilities? In what capacity? That lame ass MMA Cage? That's a stretch...

 

[LA Vol]

I think Dooley mentally threw in the towel after the UK loss. That, as Dooley might say, "took the starch right out of his britches."

 

[thebjd]

I have not unfairly criticized the staff and won't start now. They did not get all that was possible out of the '13 roster. They did not show signs of being an elite staff. I still hold out hope that Jones has a plan and they'll turn out to be the type of staff that Daj's numbers suggest they are... overachievers. But if I learned anything from Fulmer and then Dooley... its that you don't have to close your eyes to the bad to be "fair" to a coach or appreciate the good they do.

FTR, Kiffin didn't inherit a team with ideal personnel. Dooley didn't either. Both made do with what they had and managed not to lose to anyone they shouldn't have lost to. MY HOPE is that Jones is a coach so disciplined to his scheme and system that it takes more than one season for players to really begin to execute it regardless of talent or whatever. I'm hoping that it really is THAT much more critical for Jones to have players that are suited and developed for his "system" than other successful coaches.

Those are my HOPES... but they won't cause me to ignore facts that aren't so positive.

Kiffin should not have lost to UCLA. Dooley should not have lost to Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi State and Vanderbilt.

 

[sjt18]

I think Dooley mentally threw in the towel after the UK loss. That, as Dooley might say, "took the starch right out of his britches."

He probably quit on that season when Hunter went done. I remember them showing him on the sideline and you could literally see it on his face.

He seemed to think that Sunseri would save him... that didn't quite work. IMHO, if they had not fired him, he might have quit.

 

[sjt18]

Kiffin should not have lost to UCLA. Dooley should not have lost to Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi State and Vanderbilt.

I was just talking about the first season but you are probably right about UCLA.

 

[Biopsyman]

Kiffin should not have lost to UCLA. Dooley should not have lost to Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi State and Vanderbilt.

The call to run the ball in on 4 and 3 against UCLA was a horrible call against UCLA.

 

[Biopsyman]

I think Dooley mentally threw in the towel after the UK loss. That, as Dooley might say, "took the starch right out of his britches."

Really should have been fired in the locker room at the UK lost..

 

[LA Vol]

He probably quit on that season when Hunter went done. I remember them showing him on the sideline and you could literally see it on his face.

He seemed to think that Sunseri would save him... that didn't quite work. IMHO, if they had not fired him, he might have quit.

I think he would have liked to quit, but legally could not. IMO, we could have renegotiated a mutually satisfactory deal after 2011. He was done. Our mistake was keeping him another year to save money. It cost us a higher price.

 

[BowlBrother85]

The call to run the ball in on 4 and 3 against UCLA was a horrible call against UCLA.

And why not try to move the ball closer after the onside kick against Bama? Did he really expect Lincoln to make that last kick even if it wasn't blocked?

 

[sjt18]

Really should have been fired in the locker room at the UK lost..

In retrospect, you are probably right.

But most of us agree that you have to give a coach at least 3 years, right? Would Jones deserve to be fired if he went 5-7 this year and lost to UK or Vandy again? 4-8?

 

[sjt18]

I think he would have liked to quit, but legally could not. IMO, we could have renegotiated a mutually satisfactory deal after 2011. He was done. Our mistake was keeping him another year to save money. It cost us a higher price.

You could very well be right about all of that. The AD or someone in the AD would have had to have pushed that idea.

 

[Biopsyman]

I think he would have liked to quit, but legally could not. IMO, we could have renegotiated a mutually satisfactory deal after 2011. He was done. Our mistake was keeping him another year to save money. It cost us a higher price.

When you have a severance or money left on a contract.. Never quit.. Rather be fired

 

[sjt18]

And why not try to move the ball closer after the onside kick against Bama? Did he really expect Lincoln to make that last kick even if it wasn't blocked?

That was a 14-0 NC team... it took an outstanding coaching job for UT to even be in it at that point. They were completely outmanned. Bama's front 7 included several future NFL players... UT's OL included two 265 lb walkons.

 

[LA Vol]

Really should have been fired in the locker room at the UK lost..

Agree. I thought that would happen. If we had Pat Haden, Dooley would never have gotten on the team bus.

Even if the W-L had been the same with another coach in 2012, the morale would have been better and the negativity surrounding the program would have been less.

 

[sjt18]

When you have a severance or money left on a contract.. Never quit.. Rather be fired

Just wondering out loud... but do you not think he would have quit? There were rumors that he tried after '11 to just get out of his contract and leave.

 

[Biopsyman]

Just wondering out loud... but do you not think he would have quit? There were rumors that he tried after '11 to just get out of his contract and leave.

Hard to believe he would walk away from that type of money unless he had something lined up.. On the other hand, he was different

 

[Ttucke11]

Dooley was a pompous know it all, who knew next to nothing about motivational or leadership skills. I almost think he was trolling the fan base for three years. Biggest joke of a hire in UT sports history.

 

[LA Vol]

You could very well be right about all of that. The AD or someone in the AD would have had to have pushed that idea.

Dooley was apparently open to discussions, but the UTAD wouldn't consider it for financial reasons. Dooley still had a long rope for 2012, but the clusterfrick that was the Vandy game made it impossible to keep him without losing booster $$$.

 

[wolfe]

Some people have never held a position of responsibility nor observed someone in that kind of position sinking. It produces a level of stress most of you will never know. It is humiliating and crushes a person's ego completely. Different people react differently but virtually all will enter a stage of deep depression. Dooley's behavior is consistent with someone trapped in depression created by a massive personal failure.

He's not the devil and, no, not even if he lashed out at people around him. He's just a guy who was not up to the job, had everything go wrong against him that could, and was completely swallowed up by failure.

Good grief! You sound like an Obama liberal who can't accept reality. Dooley was a coach who never should have been hired by UT. He had no credentials,except that his daddy was a good coach at Georgia.

 

[wolfe]

Agree. I thought that would happen. If we had Pat Haden, Dooley would never have gotten on the team bus.

Even if the W-L had been the same with another coach in 2012, the morale would have been better and the negativity surrounding the program would have been less.

Ummm,Pat Hayden hired Kiffin.

 

[Biopsyman]

In retrospect, you are probably right.

But most of us agree that you have to give a coach at least 3 years, right? Would Jones deserve to be fired if he went 5-7 this year and lost to UK or Vandy again? 4-8?

So much was riding on that UK game.. Could have went to a bowl and UK was horrible....

Jones is a little different as the momentum is with him. Dooley has lost the fan base prior to that game. I see you point but Jones is pushing all of the right buttons currently, Wins have to follow..