Okay I was a bit harsh on Dooley.....

[NashVol11]

Just a personal observation... but it seems there's just a conformist attitude of some VN posters to jump on the bandwagon of hurdling insults toward someone - once someone else has tossed out the first stone.

It appears to me that sjt has done nothing more than shared his perspectives in a sports forum, and in most cases has attempted (whether you agree with his logic or not) to provide reason for his opinions. Others have simply responded with various personal attacks while offering little if any substance to support their posts.

If there is, in fact, any trolling going on... then it would appear to be from posters other than sjt.

Again... just a personal observation.

Sjt's perspective is that the worst coach in UT history was actually better than everyone else thinks, but sjt is the only one capable of understanding this because he's the only one who has been in a position of power like Dooley was.

That deserves all the ridicule in the world.

 

[sjt18]

Sjt your refusal to acknowledge any of the positives that Butch and his staf have accomplished is the main thing that bothers me.

But that's not true. I just seem to end up arguing more with people who refuse to see anything wrong he's done or any weakness.

IMO, his best coaching effort was probably the UGA game. UT really had no reason talent wise to be in that. Yes injuries hurt UGA but Jones outcoached Richt IMO by a wide margin. USCe was also impressive but I always thought it was a good match up for UT. He's done an excellent PR job with fans and supporters. He seems to be popular among coaches. Without being ridiculous like Kiffin, he's played some "celebrity" stuff well. He's definitely done well with past players in a beneficial way. His S&C program seems to be very good. He's done extremely well with off the field discipline and academics. I'm sure if I took time I could come up with more.

Some of the things I like best about who he seems to be haven't even born fruit yet. I like that he's an execution and discipline to scheme coach. I NEVER liked the Fulmer "throw it all at them to see what sticks" approach. I think it cost UT when they went against the best teams... execution often broke down.

Dooley and Jones did not walk into the same job.

We've had this debate many times here. I won't split hairs with you... Just suffice it to say that both guys walked into very bad situations with big roster deficiencies facing very difficult schedules.

Dooley inherited a team 3 seasons removed from the SECCG and coming off of a winning season.

And a roster with very few contributors left from that team.

Jones inherited a team that had learned how to lose - 3 seasons in a row with a losing record. Zero wins against ranked teams. Broke the winning streak vs Kentucky. Dooley's teams got worse each year. 2012 was an abomination - hiring Sunseri shows how out of his depth Dooley really was - results were inexcusable based on the offensive weapons that team possessed. His teams simply knew how to quit. - they learned from him (see Mizzou 4th qtr 2012)

I don't disagree with most of this... only that a new coach's "winning attitude" is often one of the earliest impacts he makes.

All I've really asked for is for Jones to prove he's "the guy". Six to 8 wins this fall and I am fully satisfied... then continuous progress after that. Many want to excuse Jones from winning because Dooley was a loser... what difference should that make? Jones either does or does not stand on his own. He either can or cannot coach.

 

[sjt18]

Sjt's perspective is that the worst coach in UT history was actually better than everyone else thinks,

You may be the most dishonest or else delusional person I've seen on this or any other message board. Dooley failed and was rightly fired. This whole argument today wasn't about that but about whether it makes any sense at all to attack him personally NOW.

but sjt is the only one capable of understanding this because he's the only one who has been in a position of power like Dooley was.

That deserves all the ridicule in the world.

Again... nothing but falsehood. But I'm sure it makes you feel like a big man, huh?

 

[Biopsyman]

Think Dooley wears wranglers?

 

[sjt18]

I mean, seriously, Dooley was a clear and obvious disaster from he second he was hired. Sjt is JUST NOW realizing this. Why does anyone care what he thinks about Butch Jones?

Yeah. That's why I said ONLY that Dooley should get his shot and concluded by around the 8th game of '12 that he had to go... Yep... one of us is just catching up.

 

[UrbanCryer]

I think Jones has done a very good job recruiting and especially under the circumstances. I don't mind praising OR criticizing him. Too many here go into a tail spin at any suggestion of any flaw... Many just want everyone to have "faith" that he and his staff can coach. But they didn't show they could get it done at the SEC level last fall. They did not have a good record against teams with a winning record at Cincy. USCe was the first ranked team Jones beat though he'd played some.

None of that says he "won't" be a great coach... but it DOES prevent you from saying for sure that he will be. IT is a wait and see situation.

IMO the absolute worse thing that could happen is for UT to get a coach who is a great recruiter but not a good enough coach to turn the talent into championships... just "also rans".

Dooley got his shot. He was rightly fired... that, he deserved. I just don't think it is good to have contempt for someone just because they failed. Many here act as if Dooley failed to somehow spite them personally. It's pretty ridiculous.

I can live with that. you have to admit they had UGA beat and pulled a "dooley" though. haha

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Sjt's perspective is that the worst coach in UT history was actually better than everyone else thinks, but sjt is the only one capable of understanding this because he's the only one who has been in a position of power like Dooley was.

That deserves all the ridicule in the world.

Perhaps I've missed a post somewhere, but I don't recall seeing sjt claim anything similar to what you're suggesting above. I've also not seen anywhere that he's suggested that he's the only one that has "been in a position of power".

I would be interested if you could possibly quote those posts. If not... then you're just proving to be another poster who likes to take potshots at others without providing any supporting facts.

 

[LA Vol]

The really, really scary part is that he seemed to be safe if he had only made a bowl game. My opinion was that he needed that "signature" win or he needed to go. You were here and you know I argued for him to get his complete shot... just like I argued for Fulmer. But one he lost to USCe with no chance to beat anyone else who was relevant the decision should have been locked in. They could have even let him go at that point since he seemed to be tanking UT's recruiting class by no effort at all.

BUT... it was said at the time that he would be kept if he took a team that should have won 10 games and made a minor bowl with it.

You're right. Dave Hart was vocal about not wanting to fire Dooley. If Dooley had gotten to a bowl game and lost, he still would have been given another year-- to reduce the buyout and to avoid another coaching search. UT was totally unprepared for a coaching search, because Hart thought even Dooley could bumble his way to a rock-bottom bowl game with the talent he had on the roster.

Hart would have kept Dooley five years if he thought he could smooth it over with Big Money. In hindsight, we should have cut our losses after two years. After the UK loss, people would have happily ponied up for an upgrade.

 

[CountryBoyBob454]

The best thing about Dooley was he was such a complete failure that he was easily reconized and as such he was shown the door fairly quickly. That is much preferable to having a mediocre coach who hangs around longer.

 

[TVOL71]

Dooley was in over his head as head coach at the very least. Everything I hear second hand from people who were around him is not good.

In retrospect we should have hired an interim head coach and taken a year to do a search after Lane bolted.

Hopefully Jones gets us back on top and everything works out for the best.

 

[oldsmokey67]

I know he tried. I know he didn't have all good players. I appreciate his effort. I should not knock the guy. I agree.

Funny though how some defend a multi-millionaire coach and manage to harass, poke fun, ridicule players half his age their entire career at UT and think that's okay.

i'm glad i gave that jack arse a hard time.

 

[TNnative]

I know he tried. I know he didn't have all good players. I appreciate his effort. I should not knock the guy. I agree.

Funny though how some defend a multi-millionaire coach and manage to harass, poke fun, ridicule players half his age their entire career at UT and think that's okay.

He missed on too many quality players that would have come had he been a half way competent recruiter. He deserves every knock he gets. Appreciate his effort? WHAT effort?

 

[CANNONVOLRUN]

Who?

 

[majorvol]

I have moved on.

 

[NashVol11]

Perhaps I've missed a post somewhere, but I don't recall seeing sjt claim anything similar to what you're suggesting above. I've also not seen anywhere that he's suggested that he's the only one that has "been in a position of power".

I would be interested if you could possibly quote those posts. If not... then you're just proving to be another poster who likes to take potshots at others without providing any supporting facts.

Some people have never held a position of responsibility nor observed someone in that kind of position sinking. It produces a level of stress most of you will never know. It is humiliating and crushes a person's ego completely. Different people react differently but virtually all will enter a stage of deep depression. Dooley's behavior is consistent with someone trapped in depression created by a massive personal failure.

He's not the devil and, no, not even if he lashed out at people around him. He's just a guy who was not up to the job, had everything go wrong against him that could, and was completely swallowed up by failure.

Translation:
"Let me explain Dooley's mindset, because most of you don't understand responsibility the way Dools and I do. Even though he was a d*ck to everyone in the program, it wasn't because he was a d*ck but because of the stress created by responsibility. Don't worry; you wouldn't get it."

Then, some talk about how Dooley actually recruited about as well as you can expect, took over the worst situation ever and turned it into a good situation for Butch because of "stability," and how his tenure was actually not all bad. And if someone responds with something like, "well, he did lose to Kentucky and post the worst back-to-back seasons in a century," he'll respond with "But what do YOU know about responsibility? Because where I work, I have a lot, and let me tell you: it's hard."

Rinse, repeat, 50x per thread. Pay attention and you'll notice; it's kind of hard not to.

Oh, and by the way, Dooley had PLENTY of ego when he left UT. Sjt's little anecdote didn't even have a point.

 

[Tenacguy50]

Who sees Jones as turning program around?

Count me in...:hi:

 

[JoeltonVol]

Fulmer and Kiffin had a hand in it, but Dooley's utterly destroyed the football program.

 

[rickyyrs]

I know he tried. I know he didn't have all good players. I appreciate his effort. I should not knock the guy. I agree.

Funny though how some defend a multi-millionaire coach and manage to harass, poke fun, ridicule players half his age their entire career at UT and think that's okay.

Dooley didn't have a clue what it was like to run a big time college football program. If he did then he would not let both O-line and D-line graduate at the same time. He would of had some back up plan for that. But if he was gone (like he is) then it be the other coach's problem. Which Butch now has to deal with.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

Duck Fooley. I'm already catching tons of grief in other threads because of this stupid screen name. Dude threw in the towel on our team. You remember the rumors that he was trying to get them to fire him after 2011? I'm inclined to believe it's true since he hired Sal Sunseri to replace Wilcox.

 

[CANNONVOLRUN]

Duck Fooley. I'm already catching tons of grief in other threads because of this stupid screen name. Dude threw in the towel on our team. You remember the rumors that he was trying to get them to fire him after 2011? I'm inclined to believe it's true since he hired Sal Sunseri to replace Wilcox.

Didn't i read once that you attempted to change it but were not allowed. I wonder why you can't because being stuck with that screen name is harsh lol.

 

[sjt18]

Translation:
"Let me explain Dooley's mindset, because most of you don't understand responsibility the way Dools and I do. Even though he was a d*ck to everyone in the program, it wasn't because he was a d*ck but because of the stress created by responsibility. Don't worry; you wouldn't get it."

Yeah. Based on your graciousness and class here, I am certain that you are pleasure to be around when you are under stress... that likely comes nowhere close to what a college HC faces even under the best of circumstances. But... you know all, see all including the depths of the souls of other human beings. You're quite a guy I'm sure.

Then, some talk about how Dooley actually recruited about as well as you can expect, took over the worst situation ever and turned it into a good situation

Dooley did about as well as anyone could have expected for the first class. His 2nd class was OK. It included 11 players who are likely to start this fall. The last one he signed only included 5-7 players who will ever contribute in a meaningful way. It is accurate to say his recruiting declined and then he left Jones in horrible shape.

He took over a horrible situation. We've had the meaningless debate several times here about who was left in worse shape. Neither guy inherited a good situation... and it is unlikely that either guy would have gotten the job if the situation had been better.

for Butch because of "stability," and how his tenure was actually not all bad.

Yep... you're right. By definition when you say someone failed and should have been fired around the mid-point of their 3rd year... you REALLY mean that things were just fine.

And if someone responds with something like, "well, he did lose to Kentucky and post the worst back-to-back seasons in a century," he'll respond with "But what do YOU know about responsibility? Because where I work, I have a lot, and let me tell you: it's hard."

Well no. I'll respond just like I have... He failed. In 2012 in particular he took a team that should have won 10 and won 5. Not sure how much more clear I can be. Of course you don't actually read what people write... you just make crap up.

Oh, and by the way, Dooley had PLENTY of ego when he left UT. Sjt's little anecdote didn't even have a point.

If you ever rise very far in responsibility and the attitude you have here carries over to real life... you are likely to have that feeling one day. It isn't dissimilar from the stress of a divorce. Even as big of a jerk as you are, I don't wish this on you... but your attitude makes you a prime candidate.

The humorous thing about you is your rants about Dooley being arrogant, a jerk, et al... How's the cooking business Pot?

 

[BeattieFeathers]

Duck Fooley. I'm already catching tons of grief in other threads because of this stupid screen name. Dude threw in the towel on our team. You remember the rumors that he was trying to get them to fire him after 2011? I'm inclined to believe it's true since he hired Sal Sunseri to replace Wilcox.

I remember the rats jumping from the good ship Dooley that was sinking following the Kentucky debacle, and how a bunch of homers were spinning it as a good thing! Dooley was a lame duck in 2012 and some how could not cash in with one of the most prolific offenses in vol history. A total numb skull who changed his defense in the most critical year of his career.lol:

 

[sjt18]

I can live with that. you have to admit they had UGA beat and pulled a "dooley" though. haha

I personally can't fault anything related to the coaches in the UGA game. Jones had exactly the right strategy. They capitalized on their breaks. They didn't "stop" UGA's O but they were able to limit them enough. UT was clearly the more physical team.

Jones got them to the last play and came up literally an inch or two from beating a superior team. Very impressive IMO.

I wouldn't call it a "Dooley". I don't remember any undisciplined plays that cost last year's Vols the win. I don't remember any plays that yielded rule changes :loco:. I don't remember too many guys on the field.

It came down to a guy laying his all on the line and losing control of the ball a fraction of a second too soon.

To say it was a "dooley"... diminishes what those guys did IMO.

 

[sjt18]

I remember the rats jumping from the good ship Dooley that was sinking following the Kentucky debacle, and how a bunch of homers were spinning it as a good thing! Dooley was a lame duck in 2012 and some how could not cash in with one of the most prolific offenses in vol history. A total numb skull who changed his defense in the most critical year of his career.lol:

I disagree with you often but this is an excellent and accurate assessment.

 

[sjt18]

The best thing about Dooley was he was such a complete failure that he was easily reconized and as such he was shown the door fairly quickly. That is much preferable to having a mediocre coach who hangs around longer.

This is true. The worst thing UT can have in a HC is a guy who reaches the 7-10 win level but can never get over the hump to actually compete for and win the SEC.... I'm thinking someone like Shula.