Oregon could become 1st US state to decriminalize hard drugs

[Rickyvol77]

It's always a pleasure to engage in intellectual exchanges with people who speak in such broad generalizations......... LOL

Says the guy who left the board for 2 months after he posted Portland rioters were not being violent

You haven't been right about one thing in your dumb state, from gas pumping to mailing voting fraud to homeless/druggies/Antifa destroying Portland

 

[Rickyvol77]

Same can be said for alcoholics. Yet booze is readily available.

The problem is normal people drink alcohol and only those with addictive personalities become alcoholics and THAT small percentage do DUIs, domestic abuse, public intoxication, etc.

But people who use heroin, meth etc. ALWAYS become hardcore addicts at a 95-100% rate and they are responsible for those crimes plus many more AND 90% of them end up in jail or dead.
Not true of alcoholics

 

[utvolpj]

The opioid crisis and the crime associated with it is not directly caused by the laws that enforce drug possession.

Since the 1990s, the number of people put in prison simply for possession of a little amount or marijuana or harder drugs has been going down for decades.

The issue is that they are already on probation for OTHER multiple crimes (thefts, assaults, robberies, etc) or are actually selling drugs (which would not go away as a charge under legalization). Legalization will not decrease anything concerning arrests and will only lead to further type crimes being committed and more addicts

The issue with opioids is users are treated as criminals. Instead they need treatment not incarceration

MJ arrests are going down because of laws but there are still over a half million arrests for possession. That's higher than the arrests for violent crimes

Last paragraph is just bunk

 

[Rickyvol77]

The issue with opioids is users are treated as criminals. Instead they need treatment not incarceration

MJ arrests are going down because of laws but there are still over a half million arrests for possession. That's higher than the arrests for violent crimes

Last paragraph is just bunk

As someone who has spent years seeing both the criminal side and healthcare side of drug use, i can tell you that you are wrong

Opioid abusers are offered treatment instead of incarceration ALL THE TIME, all over the country and are given several chances at it. They CHOOSE not to go which leads them into a continious cycle of arrest and release.

500,000 arrests for "marijuana possession" is conflated with actual drug dealing of large amounts AND for being charged with it WHILE ALSO BEING CHARGED with other crimes. I've not seen someone arrested simply for simple possession of marijuana outside of a written citation for 10 years.

It's the truth

 

[utvolpj]

As someone who has spent years seeing both the criminal side and healthcare side of drug use, i can tell you that you are wrong

Opioid abusers are offered treatment instead of incarceration ALL THE TIME, all over the country and are given several chances at it. They CHOOSE not to go which leads them into a continious cycle of arrest and release.

500,000 arrests for "marijuana possession" is conflated with actual drug dealing of large amounts AND for being charged with it WHILE ALSO BEING CHARGED with other crimes. I've not seen someone arrested simply for simple possession of marijuana outside of a written citation for 10 years.

It's the truth

No, our system is not set up for real treatment. Other countries are able to do it. Real treatment drops usage and associated crimes

The arrests are record. Keep trying to conflate the numbers but more mj arrests than those for violent crimes is absurd. It's low hanging fruit for a large group of revenue collectors

 

[GoDucks349]

Says the guy who left the board for 2 months after he posted Portland rioters were not being violent

You haven't been right about one thing in your dumb state, from gas pumping to mailing voting fraud to homeless/druggies/Antifa destroying Portland

I'd forgotten how out of touch with reality you are. Bye

 

[Rickyvol77]

I'd forgotten how out of touch with reality you are. Bye

I can show you your own posts if you want to act like they didnt happen, everyone here was making fun of you for disappearing after

 

[Chris4Vols22]

As someone who has spent years seeing both the criminal side and healthcare side of drug use, i can tell you that you are wrong

Opioid abusers are offered treatment instead of incarceration ALL THE TIME, all over the country and are given several chances at it. They CHOOSE not to go which leads them into a continious cycle of arrest and release.

500,000 arrests for "marijuana possession" is conflated with actual drug dealing of large amounts AND for being charged with it WHILE ALSO BEING CHARGED with other crimes. I've not seen someone arrested simply for simple possession of marijuana outside of a written citation for 10 years.

It's the truth

Pretty big fallacy in your first sentence. You likely have zero experience with chronic users with no criminal records.

 

[Rickyvol77]

No, our system is not set up for real treatment. Other countries are able to do it. Real treatment drops usage and associated crimes

The arrests are record. Keep trying to conflate the numbers but more mj arrests than those for violent crimes is absurd. It's low hanging fruit for a large group of revenue collectors

Define "real treatment"?

Other countries don't have 340 million people of various ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds

There are not more marijuana arrests than violent crimes

 

[Rickyvol77]

Pretty big fallacy in your first sentence. You likely have zero experience with chronic users with no criminal records.

So only criminal drug addicts come to the hospital for treatment? Try again and read about what innovative programs the IVDA program was at UTMC and other hospitals have copied from Vanderbilt to Emory to places in California, Ohio, etc. I assure you that I know a great deal about the topic and have worked on a personal level with these patients

 

[Chris4Vols22]

So only criminal drug addicts come to the hospital for treatment? Try again and read about what innovative programs the IVDA program was at UTMC and other hospitals have copied from Vanderbilt to Emory to places in California, Ohio, etc. I assure you that I know a great deal about the topic and have worked on a personal level with these patients

Perhaps I misunderstood you. Were you saying that all people who do hard drugs are also violent criminals?

 

[hog88]

And we still issue DUIs, public intoxication, etc.

So you think legalization of drugs would allow driving while high or being high in public?

 

[hog88]

The problem is normal people drink alcohol and only those with addictive personalities become alcoholics and THAT small percentage do DUIs, domestic abuse, public intoxication, etc.

But people who use heroin, meth etc. ALWAYS become hardcore addicts at a 95-100% rate and they are responsible for those crimes plus many more AND 90% of them end up in jail or dead.
Not true of alcoholics

So? When they commit a crime put them in prison.

 

[Rickyvol77]

So? When they commit a crime put them in prison.

Thats fine, except because of lawsuits they dont stay in prison and they go to hospitals where taxpayers pay more for their medical care, until they leave and go back to the streets and commit even more crimes and the cycle continues until they finally die of sepsis, organ failure or overdose

 

[utvolpj]

Define "real treatment"?

Other countries don't have 340 million people of various ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds

There are not more marijuana arrests than violent crimes

See Switzerland

Arrest numbers:

According to the FBI’s 2019 report, police made 545,602 arrests for marijuana-related violations in 2019 — an 18% drop — and 495,871 arrests for violent crimes. About 92%, or 500,395, of the marijuana-related arrests were for possession.

 

[Rickyvol77]

See Switzerland

FBI numbers do not include assault, domestic assault, burglary, kidnapping, carjacking, stalking, arson etc. as violent crimes. People are arrested for violent crimes much much more often than marijuana possession and it's not even close, and also only counts stats from 16,000 agencies which each count the data differently.

There were over 1 million arrests for Assault alone last year

Arrests by offense, age, and race

As for the Swiss, that model will not work in the U.S. It's easy to have rich folks pay for a few thousand other rich folks to shoot up free heroin and meth and pay for needles, etc. But there is nothing like that that could be done with our large diverse population, and not only will taxpayers refuse (and should) to support others' drug habits, the FDA, and physicians will not agree to administering something that will be that harmful to the patients, and US lawyers will sue as soon as the first patient/visitor overdose death would happen.

It's just not practical, not to mention that NO ONE PERSON ever gets out of drug addiction without wanting to as the first step, so you have the same issue of forcing them or else.

 

[utvolpj]

FBI numbers do not include assault, domestic assault, burglary, kidnapping, carjacking, stalking, arson etc. as violent crimes. People are arrested for violent crimes much much more often than marijuana possession and it's not even close, and also only counts stats from 16,000 agencies which each count the data differently.

There were over 1 million arrests for Assault alone last year

Arrests by offense, age, and race

As for the Swiss, that model will not work in the U.S. It's easy to have rich folks pay for a few thousand other rich folks to shoot up free heroin and meth and pay for needles, etc. But there is nothing like that that could be done with our large diverse population, and not only will taxpayers refuse (and should) to support others' drug habits, the FDA, and physicians will not agree to administering something that will be that harmful to the patients, and US lawyers will sue as soon as the first patient/visitor overdose death would happen.

It's just not practical, not to mention that NO ONE PERSON ever gets out of drug addiction without wanting to as the first step, so you have the same issue of forcing them or else.

Our current system of which you claim to have been a part of doesn't work. That's clear to just about everyone. So how about we come up with some real ideas, ones that have actually worked elsewhere, instead of having people beholden to an archaic system shoot down every one in favor of more revenue collection

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Totally shocked the state of Oregon likes drugs.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Our current system of which you claim to have been a part of doesn't work. That's clear to just about everyone. So how about we come up with some real ideas, ones that have actually worked elsewhere, instead of having people beholden to an archaic system shoot down every one in favor of more revenue collection

I agree with overhaul but the issues are more much deep seated than "throw millions into it and see what happens".

The problem is a mix of criminal nature, family and societal structures, lack of resource for mental health and treatements, availablity of hard narcotics and the opioid crisis itself, government interference and regulations, etc. The "war on drugs" is about a lot of different things, but revenue collection from finding a joint on someone is NOT it

 

[Septic]

At a federal level? as with everything else too much money.

Locally, not much different than any other crime you are dealing with

Yeah? But we're not talking about "everything else", we're talking about what you equated to a slogan.

If you want to hold yourself out to be a conservative, then don't be flippant or cavalier with the TRILLION dollars of American taxpayer funds that have been flushed down the commode with a destined to fail program.

 

[Septic]

I agree with overhaul but the issues are more much deep seated than "throw millions into it and see what happens".

The problem is a mix of criminal nature, family and societal structures, lack of resource for mental health and treatements, availablity of hard narcotics and the opioid crisis itself, government interference and regulations, etc. The "war on drugs" is about a lot of different things, but revenue collection from finding a joint on someone is NOT it

Your version of reality is not congruent with the facts.



Capitalizing on Mass Incarceration: U.S. Growth in Private Prisons | The Sentencing Project

How Private Prisons Are Profiting Under the Trump Administration - Center for American Progress

Banking on Bondage: Private Prisons and Mass Incarceration

 

[utvolpj]

I agree with overhaul but the issues are more much deep seated than "throw millions into it and see what happens".

The problem is a mix of criminal nature, family and societal structures, lack of resource for mental health and treatements, availablity of hard narcotics and the opioid crisis itself, government interference and regulations, etc. The "war on drugs" is about a lot of different things, but revenue collection from finding a joint on someone is NOT it

Modern day policing is mainly about revenue collection at this point (for cities, prisons, etc). That's also a current goal of the WoD

If you look into what others have done is a very targeted approach. Actually providing the drugs and treatment led to less use and crime. Shooting down every idea in order to maintain the broken status quo is nonsense.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Yeah? But we're not talking about "everything else", we're talking about what you equated to a slogan.

If you want to hold yourself out to be a conservative, then don't be flippant or cavalier with the TRILLION dollars of American taxpayer funds that have been flushed down the commode with a destined to fail program.

Almost all federal programs fail, I dont know why you think that is a new concept

 

[Rickyvol77]

Your version of reality is not congruent with the facts.



Capitalizing on Mass Incarceration: U.S. Growth in Private Prisons | The Sentencing Project

How Private Prisons Are Profiting Under the Trump Administration - Center for American Progress

Banking on Bondage: Private Prisons and Mass Incarceration

The problem isn't the people being in prison, it's the constant letting the same criminals out of prison to commit more crimes for decades. Again the people actually in prison aren't just there for a simple possesion of a joint...no one is (outside of some 1960 case)

 

[C-south]

Your version of reality is not congruent with the facts.



Capitalizing on Mass Incarceration: U.S. Growth in Private Prisons | The Sentencing Project

How Private Prisons Are Profiting Under the Trump Administration - Center for American Progress

Banking on Bondage: Private Prisons and Mass Incarceration

Why do you have a problem with criminals being removed from society?