Penn State sanctions reduced

#76
#76
You guys keep saying current players shouldn't be punished, and I agree.... but they are also free to leave at anytime. But I believe the university for covering it up, the football program for covering it up, knowing what was going on, and to let it continue for years after, should be dealt the death penalty. . How would you feel if it was your kid?? If it was me, I'd want the whole damn place to burn to the ground.
 
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#80
#80
aredfox28 said:
You guys keep saying current players shouldn't be punished, and I agree.... but they are also free to leave at anytime. But I believe the university for covering it up, the football program for covering it up, knowing what was going on, and to let it continue for years after, should be dealt the death penalty. . How would you feel if it was your kid?? If it was me, I'd want the whole damn place to burn to the ground.
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They did. They fired everyone, then the state sent one to jail, the remaining guys are awaiting trial, and their football diety died.
 
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#81
#81
aredfox, if my kid got killed by a drunk driver, I'm not burning down Texas DPS offices. I'm going after the drunk.
 
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#82
#82
aredfox28 said:
You guys keep saying current players shouldn't be punished, and I agree.... but they are also free to leave at anytime.
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Kind of. The players who were currently on the roster were allowed to transfer without penalty last year. But the sanctions came down within 6 weeks of the football season. Very few teams had roster spots available, so only a handful of big time players (Redd, for one) were ever likely to find an opening elsewhere.

But I believe the university for covering it up, the football program for covering it up, knowing what was going on, and to let it continue for years after, should be dealt the death penalty. .
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Universities and football programs are not living, breathing, thinking entities. They are collections of individuals. In this instance, only a handful of those individuals (out of the thousands employed by PSU) knew of the crime and covered it up. Those individuals are no longer connected with PSU, and all are either in prison, headed to prison, or dead. The NCAA cannot touch those men. All the NCAA can do is punish everyone else at PSU who weren't involved.

How would you feel if it was your kid?? If it was me, I'd want the whole damn place to burn to the ground.
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You'd seek vengeance; an understandable reaction. But is "burning the whole damn place to the ground" going to make your child forget what happened? Or will it heal his soul? No one will be able to fix what happened to those kids, but the school has already started reaching settlements and writing massive checks. Surely, that will be much more likely to help the victims than beating up PSU's football program.

Vengeance isn't justice. Don't confuse the two.
 
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#83
#83
so just let it go ? the establishment that let it all go on,just say it is ok ? no problem,you got a slap on the wrist ? I guess that is ok in some places,but not to me,it is just sad to me that the NCAA would ease up on the penalties,it just seems to me that there saying this type of behavior is ok by an institution and we aren't going to do anything to discourage it
 
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#84
#84
Ok, do you think those checks will take away the nightmare those boys, you men have of the jerk touching them?
 
#85
#85
bamawriter said:
Yes, we agree on that. Sandusky committed the crimes, and Paterno, Schultz, Spanier, and Curley helped cover the crimes up.

Sandusky will spend the rest of his days behind bars, Paterno is dead, and Schultz, Spanier, and Curley have all been fired and are all awaiting trial.



You seem to think that the people involved were only held accountable by the NCAA's penalties, and I cannot figure out why you think that. Or is it that you think NCAA sanctions are worse than prison?
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I've been reading your posts bamawriter and you make some valid points. I will not argue that this is a criminal matter that needs to be severely dealt with by the legal system.

Having said that, what I think some are trying to say is that the bottom line is the attempt to cover up this scandal was done so in order to preserve the reputation and the success of the football program. As such, the PROGRAM itself deserves to be in the cellar for a while because of this! No one is saying current players are at fault or current coaches or current administrators. The punishment is not meant to be targeted directly at them and they are free to leave and play or coach anywhere else in the country! However, as a university, Penn State absolutely deserves for it's football program to be penalized for such atrocities! To me the crimes committed and the cover up that followed are so heinous that crippling the football program...for a while...sends a VERY important and necessary message to other universities and programs around the country that this kind of garbage will not be tolerated! In my humble opinion, justice would not be properly served otherwise.
 
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#86
#86
TXA&M07 said:
They did. They fired everyone, then the state sent one to jail, the remaining guys are awaiting trial, and their football diety died.
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There are board members still there..... if im not mistaken. Ones who claim they knew nothing about it..
 
#89
#89
aredfox28 said:
Ok, do you think those checks will take away the nightmare those boys, you men have of the jerk touching them?
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Of course not. But it helps them move on with their lives a heck of a lot more than nuking a football program, don't you think?
 
#90
#90
TXA&M07 said:
aredfox, if my kid got killed by a drunk driver, I'm not burning down Texas DPS offices. I'm going after the drunk.
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Your dang right, and I would tare down his house and destroy everything in my path, to let him know he is gonna pay up for his mistake. .
 
#91
#91
bamawriter said:
Of course not. But it helps them move on with their lives a heck of a lot more than nuking a football program, don't you think?
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Honestly, If I was them, I wouldn't give a rats ass what happened to the program after what happened to me.. heck, I might even be for them nuking the program to make sure it never happ again.. but thats just me..
 
#93
#93
governmentmule said:
so just let it go ? the establishment that let it all go on,just say it is ok ? no problem,you got a slap on the wrist ?
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The "establishment" didn't do anything. Some very twisted individuals did some very screwed up stuff. Those individuals are no longer connected to the establishment, and being punished by the judicial system.

I guess that is ok in some places,but not to me,it is just sad to me that the NCAA would ease up on the penalties,it just seems to me that there saying this type of behavior is ok by an institution and we aren't going to do anything to discourage it
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Institutions aren't capable of behavior. They are not alive; they do not think; they do not act. The people that make up those institutions think and act. And only a handful of men that were part of the institution did anything wrong. The NCAA's punishment does not effect those men in any way. Instead, it punishes every other individual who did absolutely nothing wrong.
 
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#94
#94
Lots of emotion on this topic. Its understandable and some times, those emotions cloud rational perspective. Its a sad fact that its even discussed but we've all learned something from this.

False idols are not something to fall victim to.
 
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#95
#95
bamawriter said:
The "establishment" didn't do anything. Some very twisted individuals did some very screwed up stuff. Those individuals are no longer connected to the establishment, and being punished by the judicial system.



Institutions aren't capable of behavior. They are not alive; they do not think; they do not act. The people that make up those institutions think and act. And only a handful of men that were part of the institution did anything wrong. The NCAA's punishment does not effect those men in any way. Instead, it punishes every other individual who did absolutely nothing wrong.
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After what went down on that campus and the cover up that followed, Penn State should consider themselves lucky that they even still HAVE a damn football program! I'm sorry but the relaxing of the sanctions orginially handed down by the NCAA is an attempt to minimize the severity of what happened! Also, it is a huge insult to the victims and their families! Not to mention that it further makes the NCAA look weak and indecisive.
 
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#96
#96
bamawriter said:
That's right. I don't think the NCAA should be involved in punishing criminal behavior, and I'd prefer to let the legal system punish the offenders. That means I'm defending the cover up of child rape.
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What is wrong with you?..Seriously? Children were molested by a sick, twisted monster. He was caught IN THE ACT on multiple occasions. It could have been stopped but wasn't because an organization was afraid it would lose money and afraid it would hurt the image and success of a football program. CHILDREN were allowed to be raped because of money and football. This is disgusting and should be condemned by all of society. Any entity that has any authority or power over this institution at any level should act to condemn and correct it...donors, state, ncaa, justice dept, ANYBODY. This is a crime against humanity and it should be condemned by everyone. If your hatred of the NCAA supersedes your disgust of child abuse, maybe it's time to step away from football for a while...this board in particular. There are more important things in life than football.
 
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#97
#97
Brave Volunteer said:
I've been reading your posts bamawriter and you make some valid points. I will not argue that this is a criminal matter that needs to be severely dealt with by the legal system.

Having said that, what I think some are trying to say is that the bottom line is the attempt to cover up this scandal was done so in order to preserve the reputation and the success of the football program. As such, the PROGRAM itself deserves to be in the cellar for a while because of this! No one is saying current players are at fault or current coaches or current administrators. The punishment is not meant to be targeted directly at them and they are free to leave and play or coach anywhere else in the country! However, as a university, Penn State absolutely deserves for it's football program to be penalized for such atrocities! To me the crimes committed and the cover up that followed are so heinous that crippling the football program...for a while...sends a VERY important and necessary message to other universities and programs around the country that this kind of garbage will not be tolerated! In my humble opinion, justice would not be properly served otherwise.
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Sorry, what you described is vengeance, not justice. We aren't simply talking about coaches and players. We are talking about anyone involved with PSU's athletic department, where every other sport is supported by the revenue generated by football. We are talking about the business owners in area who depend on 7 weekends every year to make a living.

As I've said, the University, the program, and the team are just groups of people. Doling out vengeance upon those people, none of whom were involved in the crime or cover up, is morally repugnant. Is "you can't cover up child rape" a message that really needs to be sent?
 
#98
#98
aredfox28 said:
There are board members still there..... if im not mistaken. Ones who claim they knew nothing about it..
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Do you have evidence to suggest that any board member did know about it? The Freeh Report details how Spanier intentionally hid the facts from the board.
 
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#99
#99
aredfox28 said:
Your dang right, and I would tare down his house and destroy everything in my path, to let him know he is gonna pay up for his mistake. .
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So you're going to torture his family? That's really the equivalent of what the NCAA did.
 
#100
#100
Brave Volunteer said:
After what went down on that campus and the cover up that followed, Penn State should consider themselves lucky that they even still HAVE a damn football program! I'm sorry but the relaxing of the sanctions orginially handed down by the NCAA is an attempt to minimize the severity of what happened! Also, it is a huge insult to the victims and their families! Not to mention that it further makes the NCAA look weak and indecisive.
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If the NCAA had simply said from the beginning "This is a matter for the courts. We hope to see justice done," and left it at that, then they wouldn't have found themselves in this situation.
 
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