Penn State scandal (merged)

[bamawriter]

You've obviously never served on a board. The JOB of the board is to know what's going on. I serve on 3 boards right now. I fully understand the fiduciary responsibilities of such a position. Lack of knowledge of ones responsibility on the board is not a defense.
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The board had terrible procedures in place, and the stooges exploited them. But the police never went to the board in 98 and the stooges didn't in 01. Even with better procedures in place, the stooges easily could have kept it from the BOT until the grand jury got involved.

 

[Spartacavolus]

You've obviously never served on a board. The JOB of the board is to know what's going on. I serve on 3 boards right now. I fully understand the fiduciary responsibilities of such a position. Lack of knowledge of ones responsibility on the board is not a defense.
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Better hope one of those big wig companies you sit on the board for aren't doing anything you aren't aware of. I mean, I'm sure you and your board members are 100% aware of all interworkings of the company everything that goes on.

 

[Vercingetorix]

So the NCAA should just shoot everyone and let God sort em out?

The NCAA should punish the institution that grew to have so little of our so-called "institutional control" that the football coach came to run the whole university.

When a man gets caught and convicted of murder, we send him to jail. We don't worry too much about the financial impact on his business partners, his family, etc. We punish the guilty. Penn State, as an institution, is guilty.

 

[bamawriter]

Severity matters in the real world.
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That's why I reduced the severity of the hypothetical punishment. I'm guessing you only read the first paragraph of the post you quoted.

 

[VolBeef88]

The board had terrible procedures in place, and the stooges exploited them. But the police never went to the board in 98 and the stooges didn't in 01. Even with better procedures in place, the stooges easily could have kept it from the BOT until the grand jury got involved.

That doesn't resolve them of their responsibility.
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[95 Vol Alum]

You've obviously never served on a board. The JOB of the board is to know what's going on. I serve on 3 boards right now. I fully understand the fiduciary responsibilities of such a position. Lack of knowledge of ones responsibility on the board is not a defense.
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Are you suggesting the Board should be aware of all criminal activities being conducted by their employees?

I agree they sucked wind once they were aware of the criminal activities.

 

[bamawriter]

The NCAA should punish the institution that grew to have so little of our so-called "institutional control" that the football coach came to run the whole university.

When a man gets caught and convicted of murder, we send him to jail. We don't worry too much about the financial impact on his business partners, his family, etc. We punish the guilty. Penn State, as an institution, is guilty.

The justice system is not beholden to a criminal's business partners. The NCAA is beholden to its member institutions. It's fine to punish the guilty, but not to drag the innocent along for the ride.

 

[Vercingetorix]

The board had terrible procedures in place, and the stooges exploited them. But the police never went to the board in 98 and the stooges didn't in 01. Even with better procedures in place, the stooges easily could have kept it from the BOT until the grand jury got involved.

You don't think the Board of Trustees had any idea what kind of power Paterno wielded at PSU? Come on.

The job of the BOT is to know that the football coach holds an unhealthy amount of power and push back. They didn't.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

The NCAA should punish the institution that grew to have so little of our so-called "institutional control" that the football coach came to run the whole university.

When a man gets caught and convicted of murder, we send him to jail. We don't worry too much about the financial impact on his business partners, his family, etc. We punish the guilty. Penn State, as an institution, is guilty.

I apologize if I missed it, what punishment do you feel is appropriate?

 

[VolBeef88]

Better hope one of those big wig companies you sit on the board for aren't doing anything you aren't aware of. I mean, I'm sure you and your board members are 100% aware of all interworkings of the company everything that goes on.

Before I accept a seat on a board I know what's going on. I research it and then if I feel confident about the situation then and ONLY then do I accept the seat. However I understand that if I don't do my do diligence and things go wrong I'm culpable.
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[bamawriter]

That doesn't resolve them of their responsibility.
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Actually, if they can prove they acted as soon as they became aware and did not exhibit willfull blindness, then it totally absolves them of any liability.

 

[TrueOrange]

The NCAA should punish the institution that grew to have so little of our so-called "institutional control" that the football coach came to run the whole university.

When a man gets caught and convicted of murder, we send him to jail. We don't worry too much about the financial impact on his business partners, his family, etc. We punish the guilty. Penn State, as an institution, is guilty.

the scales on those two examples are immensely different; that's not really so much just a fair black and white comparison

 

[VolBeef88]

Actually, if they can prove they acted as soon as they became aware and did not exhibit willfull blindness, then it totally absolves them of any liability.

It's gonna be VERY difficult to explain that for over 14 years you as a BOT member didn't have a clue what was going on. I serve on some boards and I signed off accepting fiduciary responsibility on all 3 of them. So, you're wrong.
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[Vercingetorix]

I apologize if I missed it, what punishment do you feel is appropriate?

I haven't argued about a specific punishment, actually. I'm just arguing that I think it's entirely appropriate for the NCAA to step in and do something.

I don't think it has to be all or nothing. The death penalty would be satisfying from a symbolic point of view, but now we know that that ends up being a 20 year thing. That's too much. I think you could hand out some crippling scholarship reductions and a multiyear bowl ban that would end up being an appropriate punishment without it being something that PSU is still dealing with in 2030. They can spend five years as a bottom feeder, and then they can work their way up.

This subservience to sports by universities has to stop. Coaches have too much power. This could have happened at Duke, at Florida State, even under Fulmer at UT. At Alabama right now. The military needs to be under civilian control, so to speak. You start that right now by punishing Penn State for the crime of letting football run the university.

 

[CountVolcula]

Freeh Report: Lack of oversight by Penn State board of trustees to blame in Jerry Sandusky scandal | NJ.com

"Oversight of Penn State fell to the 32-member board of trustees. But the Freeh report found the board failed its responsibilities.

"According to the report release earlier today, the Board did not have regular reporting procedures or committee structures in place to ensure disclosure of major risks.p

"The investigation said that because the board did not demand regular reporting of those risks, Penn State president Graham Spanier and other senior officials did not bring up the Jerry Sandusky investigations."

...

"Some Trustees reported that their meetings felt “scripted” or that they were “rubber stamping” major decisions already made by Spanier and a smaller group of trustees. Some trustees said learned of the president’s decisions in public meetings where there were no questions or discussions.

"Even as last late as 2011, when the university was facing a grand jury investigation, the Freeh report noted that a briefing to the board downplayed the nature of the investigation of Sandusky."

"“The Board members did not independently assess the information or demand detailed reporting from Spanier and Baldwin on this serious matter,” said the report. “The board did not inquire about the details of the Attorney General’s investigation, including the request for subpoenas seeking historic e-mail information.”

"Investigators said the board allowed itself to be marginalized by not demanding “thorough and forthright reports on the affairs of the University.”"

Appears that the BOT had no control over the institution

 

[Spartacavolus]

Before I accept a seat on a board I know what's going on. I research it and then if I feel confident about the situation then and ONLY then do I accept the seat. However I understand that if I don't do my do diligence and things go wrong I'm culpable.
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Beef, if you are on a board, you have no idea about 90% of what happens on a daily basis with that particular group. You could be on a board and a manager of the company is found with damn skulls in his fridge. Are you saying that should be on your shoulders too?

If the BOT or any member had any info about this at all, they should be punished. If it was held from them, its different for me.

 

[Spartacavolus]

I haven't argued about a specific punishment, actually. I'm just arguing that I think it's entirely appropriate for the NCAA to step in and do something.

I don't think it has to be all or nothing. The death penalty would be satisfying from a symbolic point of view, but now we know that that ends up being a 20 year thing. That's too much. I think you could hand out some crippling scholarship reductions and a multiyear bowl ban that would end up being an appropriate punishment without it being something that PSU is still dealing with in 2030. They can spend five years as a bottom feeder, and then they can work their way up.

This subservience to sports by universities has to stop. Coaches have too much power. This could have happened at Duke, at Florida State, even under Fulmer at UT. At Alabama right now. The military needs to be under civilian control, so to speak. You start that right now by punishing Penn State for the crime of letting football run the university.

They'd be back on their feet pretty quickly. Multi year probation and schloarship losses hasn't really bothered teams in the last few years.

Don't really know what to suggest here.

 

[CountVolcula]

Beef, if you are on a board, you have no idea about 90% of what happens on a daily basis with that particular group. You could be on a board and a manager of the company is found with damn skulls in his fridge. Are you saying that should be on your shoulders too?

If the BOT or any member had any info about this at all, they should be punished. If it was held from them, its different for me.

If the skulls are in the office fridge

 

[Spartacavolus]

If the skulls are in the office fridge

If the BOT failed in some procedure that would have caught this, punishment should be steep.
If anyone on the BOT knew or it was discussed, killem for all I care.
If they were not told anything? I don't know.

 

[Vercingetorix]

They'd be back on their feet pretty quickly. Multi year probation and schloarship losses hasn't really bothered teams in the last few years.

Don't really know what to suggest here.

A 3-5 year postseason ban along with significant scholarship cuts would hammer them for awhile without going full death penalty.

 

[ukvols]

A postseason ban of more than three years is a mini death penalty.

 

[rmsmith]

A postseason ban of more than three years is a mini death penalty.

Theres no guarantee they make the postseason

 

[VolBeef88]

Beef, if you are on a board, you have no idea about 90% of what happens on a daily basis with that particular group. You could be on a board and a manager of the company is found with damn skulls in his fridge. Are you saying that should be on your shoulders too?

If the BOT or any member had any info about this at all, they should be punished. If it was held from them, its different for me.

I can only tell you what I've done as a board member on 3 boards. I signed off accepting fiduciary responsibility to the corp. I as the others on the board accept responsibility. Ignorance is not a defense. The BOT failed to control the corporation leadership.
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[BigPapaVol]

Actually, if they can prove they acted as soon as they became aware and did not exhibit willfull blindness, then it totally absolves them of any liability.

No it doesn't. If there is the reasonable expectation that control via knowledge was expected, they remain culpable. There is no freaking way they should be absolved if the president was in on the coverup.

 

[VolBeef88]

No it doesn't. If there is the reasonable expectation that control via knowledge was expected, they remain culpable. There is no freaking way they should be absolved if the president was in on the coverup.

BPV you're exactly right.
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