Peyton Manning's faith

#151
#151
K-town Vol Fan said:
We know we have brains because you can crack the skull open and see it. In everyone.


Bad example.
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Well sir--thank you for making my point! The Bible declares that the CREATION reveals God to man:

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.

The FACT that God exists is seen clearly in the CREATION in the same way one may crack open a skull and observe the existence of the human brain--both have been CREATED by an eternal, Holy, loving, and Gracious God.

Denying God's existence is as illogical and foolish as it would be to deny that humans have a brain.

Once again, thanks for proving the point! :peace2:
 
#152
#152
Other_Guy said:
Where do you get we were predestined? We CHOOSE to sin. Everytime I sin its my own choice. The devil doesn't even make me. Its all me.Other than that 1st part the rest is true. But you're making my point! We are all in the samme boat. We were screwed. God is providing a way out. So its not all for not. We just have to accept His Son and be forgiven. Its that simple!
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With the exception of Jesus, every person who's ever lived on this earth has sinned correct? Why? It's in our nature! It's hard wired into our DNA! I'd say that pretty much makes us predestined to sin. No one who's born on this earth has a shot in hell of living a sinless life. That's the point I was trying to make. Do we strive for it in order to make us better people? Sure! Do we ever truly get there? Nope!
 
#154
#154
utvolpj said:
so the video makes you a humbled "Professional Dope Dealer"?
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There's a profession out there--you might have heard of it--it takes a lot of time and education--pharmacist. UT has one of the best schools in the country in this profession. :salute:
 
#155
#155
Other_Guy said:
You're just complicating things lol. If there is another way, why would he send His Son in the 1st place?
And there is no other path. 1 simple path. Its not complicated or hard for us as humans. God makes it very clear to us. If we choose to go our own path... that's our own choice. We don't want to be robots, we want there to be choice. Well, God gives us the choice. Its up to us whether we heed his word or ignore it.
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If he is all powerful, why is there not another way?

What about people who have never heard of Christ? Are they condemned because they haven't accepted him?
 
#156
#156
MikeVol44 said:
Well sir--thank you for making my point! The Bible declares that the CREATION reveals God to man:

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.

The FACT that God exists is seen clearly in the CREATION in the same way one may crack open a skull and observe the existence of the human brain--both have been CREATED by an eternal, Holy, loving, and Gracious God.

Denying God's existence is as illogical and foolish as it would be to deny that humans have a brain.

Once again, thanks for proving the point! :peace2:
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First of all, this is nonsense. Second, you are supposed to be basing things on faith, not looking for facts. If you truly look for facts you aren't going to find strong support for your faith.
 
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#157
#157
n_huffhines said:
First of all, this is nonsense. Second, you are supposed to be basing things on faith, not looking for facts. If you truly look for facts you aren't going to find strong support for your faith.
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Well--I would respectfully say that you are wrong on both accounts.

first of all, FAITH is not BLIND...Faith comes by Hearing--AND hearing comes from the Word of God. The Word of God is not some detached, esoteric, meaningless, and human message.

I wasn't sharing my own opinion, but quoting from the book of Romans, chapter 1. You should take some time to read it--if you haven't done so before.

Secondly, facts are only derived from EVIDENCE. For example, how do we know about the law of gravity? It's not like we can actually SEE, FEEL, OR EMBRACE gravity. But, just once DENY that gravity exists and test your "faith" in your own presupposition and see how your ankles feel afterward.

Biblical Faith is rooted and grounded on FACTUAL EVIDENCE. I just gave you the ubiquitous example of CREATION as a starting point--you can't run from Creation--it envelopes your life. And, according to the Word of God--it reveals His eternal power and divine nature--which is invisible.

However, that statement in Romans 1:18-23, rests in the FACT that a historical, VISIBLE, Person was born in Bethlehem, raised in Nazareth, and did die on a Roman cross as an enemy of Rome in the time of Pontius Pilate. That He rose again from the dead and was seen by over 500 eyewitnesses is more evidence given to validate my FAITH in His RESURRECTION--which, indeed, was a factual event! Even Roman historians have verified these facts. His name is Jesus.

Therefore, Faith is grounded on FACTS--as produced from solid evidence, and is not some kind of "mist" that one must be intoxicated by to believe.

I challenge you to read the Bible for yourself. Start in Romans 1, or even in Genesis 1. And come to your own conclusion. Many people have done so--and lived to rejoice in what they have found to be true.

:peace2:
 
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#158
#158
Brave Volunteer said:
With the exception of Jesus, every person who's ever lived on this earth has sinned correct? Why? It's in our nature! It's hard wired into our DNA! I'd say that pretty much makes us predestined to sin. No one who's born on this earth has a shot in hell of living a sinless life. That's the point I was trying to make. Do we strive for it in order to make us better people? Sure! Do we ever truly get there? Nope!
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I'm sorry but every mucle you move is by choice. Are you also saying people who go to hell and have rejected Jesus time and time again are predestined? Am I predestined to accept Him? No! God gives me that choice.

But we are both making the same point :p of course no one is perfect, we're humans. We need a Savior. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to point out... my point is that God provides away out. God extends the offer even though we reject Him many times. He still loves us despite us sinning and hurting Him again and again.
I am done here. I hope if you are still unsure of things you go and read the Bible as deeply as you can and ask God to show you what you want Him to show you so you can understand me more :)
 
#159
#159
VolFan4Life87 said:
You're selling something the non believer doesn't want to buy, and you're using fear of the unknown to spread it.

Here's a better question; IF (huge hypothetical if) upon death non-believers weren't sentenced to hell and eternal damnation, but instead just went somewhere else not as perfect as heaven but not one full of torment - how many people would bother with Christianity? This is honestly, in my opinion, the reason why it rubs some people and will always rub some people the wrong way. They're being told if they don't do something, they will suffer eternal wrath.

When I say you I of course do not mean you personally. :hi: My very best friend is devoutly atheist and we've had many detailed discussions on these topics. I tend to play advocate for either side from time to time simply for objectivity.
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Fair enough, but let me ask you one question. If we knew that social security would be going away and government aid programs to help financially strapped people would not be there to help, would people invest in their 401k more or just get annoyed that people are telling them they are messing up by not doing so?

As humans we all fail, and faith in something that you can't touch or see is hard for some people. It was for me too before I was saved.
 
#160
#160
VolFan4Life87, just a tidbit thrown your way after seeing your response to jtp(?). The westernized concept of God and his character is way off base. All true monarchies are dictatorships. The word dictator has a sour taste for most people due to how our experience with human dictators historically behave. It simply means someone is in a position of unquestioned and unchallengeable power.
Consequently, God is a dictator. The difference is that according to Scripture He doesn't abuse this power. He let Abraham second guess him about Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses called Him out regarding His angry and impulsive decision to wipe out all the Hebrews gathered at Mt. Sinai. Rather than smiting these puny humans who dared to question Him, He listened. By His own account, He's a vengeful god. None of what I've said here sits well with so-called Christians who are actually brainwashed subjects of certain church doctrines. Kind of like what Repubs and Democs faithful are like. However, unlike human dictators, when God implements a threat, two things hold true:

1. The offender has knowingly and willingly committed what s/he knew was wrong and detrimental to others. Just look at the societal portions of 10 Commandments carefully and you see this immediately.

2. Now, the portions relevant to godship is preventive. History shows that without that bit in our mouth to guide our focus what and who to hold in awe, we deteriorate. We either set up some object as god and dictate all pay homage to it under pain of death. Or, we set up some human who has been labeled a god (Egyptian pharaohs for example. Hitler was doing the same thing.) and and every time it goes to the imbeciles' heads. Pretty soon we mass sacrifices or genocidal cleansing of some form, under some claimed justification to please or appease this god. Human tendency for self-destruction is practically infinite.
 
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#161
#161
n_huffhines said:
Tebow? Think about if every time Tebow got the mic he started talking about remote control planes (if that were his passion) and you don't care about RC planes. It'd get old fast.

Also, the idea that God picks winners and losers, or blesses certain individuals to win is just silly. Durant said, "we have God on our side." last night. Well apparently Durant thinks God can't win an NBA championship. It makes no sense.
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"I would think sharing one's faith would go a long way toward making the world a better place"

The above quote was what I assumed he was referring to that "annoyed people".
 
#162
#162
n_huffhines said:
If he is all powerful, why is there not another way?

What about people who have never heard of Christ? Are they condemned because they haven't accepted him?
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I won't speak for the experiences of others whom I have no firsthand knowledge of, but I think many theologians would tell you that the spirit works in mysterious ways and all will be given a chance to find the right path.

That said, you clearly have a great deal of interest in the subject of faith and religion as evidenced by your many posts (11 so far) in this thread. You should know that it is highly unlikely you will find satisfying and complete answers to such deep and profound topics on an internet messageboard. I would encourage you, instead, to seek out and study a variety of religious and theological writings throughout history to find the answers you are seeking.
 
#163
#163
jp1 said:
Fair enough, but let me ask you one question. If we knew that social security would be going away and government aid programs to help financially strapped people would not be there to help, would people invest in their 401k more or just get annoyed that people are telling them they are messing up by not doing so?

As humans we all fail, and faith in something that you can't touch or see is hard for some people. It was for me too before I was saved.
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But in this case, no one truly knows. Christians believe and that is the essence of faith. Both Christians & atheists definitively believe in something that cannot currently be proven (existence vs nonexistence of a creator) and many people today find themselves outside of that paradigm - undecided.

Whether you believe one way or another arguably has little to no influence over how we live day in & out. Most people are worldly and just don't really think about it.
 
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#164
#164
burntorangeVOLffle said:
He is a loving God but he is also a jealous and vengeful God.

It's never made sense me either.
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Read the story of Job in the Bible. God doesn't have to make sense to you. God is who He is and the Bible to me reveals who He is. God is I Am that I Am. He doesn't need to explain his actions, his motives, or his plans. We just trust and believe and He proves himself when needed. That would be like us explaining to ants why we do what we do.
 
#165
#165
jp1 said:
Serious question....why?
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What if I made it my life's mission to convince all religious faiths that they are waisting their time? What if every time I saw a Christian all I did was tear their beliefs down and basically tell them they are in for a huge disappointment? What if I went around neighborhoods knocking on doors handing out anti-religious pamphlets because I felt that as a nonbeliever it was my duty?
It would eventually get annoying, would it not?
The only time I speak on this subject is when a Christian takes it upon themselves to try and "save me".
 
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#166
#166
Other_Guy said:
You are missing the simplicity of it. It has nothing to do with how "good" you are. Its not "wise enough" to accept it. We all deserve hell because we choose to sin. We are held just as accountable because every single person who ever lived chose to sin and will continue to no matter how well they try. Its such a simple, easy way out of eternal death. People can't accept that its too simple and that we are supposed to do something on our own. Fact is we can't do anything. God offers a way out. No one has to worry about hell and the punishment if they would just accept him into their hearts :)
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So, if I live a good and decent life doing unto others as I would have them do unto me, but do not acknowledge God, I am doomed?
 
#168
#168
n_huffhines said:
First of all, this is nonsense. Second, you are supposed to be basing things on faith, not looking for facts. If you truly look for facts you aren't going to find strong support for your faith.
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There are Christians in my own family that have told me that looking for facts equals questioning God which equals going to hell.
 
#170
#170
Doyle Hargraves said:
There are Christians in my own family that have told me that looking for facts equals questioning God which equals going to hell.
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Seriously? Wow. No disrespect intended but that seems a little dense. I am a Christian and I love looking for facts and questioning things. Its what helps me become closer to God.
 
#173
#173
People very desperately want to believe there is something more to life than their corporal existence. Hence all the "god"/religion silliness. I mean, "heaven" and "hell"? C'mon, people. It's tough to accept that this is IT, but this is IT. Enjoy life now. What is truly off-putting is this bizarre christian need to push their nonsense on other people--see tim tebow and the OP here and missionaries and a million other examples. It's no coincidence that the least educated and poorest people tend to be the most religious. And then we have the silly people declaring that people who don't believe in their silliness don't have values. You can't run for president, or just about any other political office, unless you make a show of your religion so that you don't automatically lose the vote of simpletons who couldn't tell you where the UK is on a map but who will consider you a friend of the "devil" if you don't traipse into church weekly. Oh, America. And now, up with the heavy organ music...
 
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