Police shooting black man in the back ... again (Kenosha, WI)

#126
#126
utvolpj said:
I'm big on individual rights but there's a time to discuss them and a time to shut up and fight another day. If there are guns in my face I want to see another day and will shut my mouth. especially when the world is claiming its so dangerous for a black man
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I say start throwing the power tripping cops who overstep their mandate in jail. False imprisonment, murder etc. Stop giving them passes.

This comment has nothing to do with this incident but cops in general who are trained to trample on the individual freedoms of the very people they are supposed to serve.
 
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#128
#128
ClearwaterVol said:
I say start throwing the power tripping cops who overstep their mandate in jail. False imprisonment, murder etc. Stop giving them passes.

This comment has nothing to do with this incident but cops in general who are trained to trample on the individual freedoms of the very people they are supposed to serve.
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I'm on your side with that. I'm just going to do it in court rather than grab my firearm from my truck and attempt to enact some street justice
 
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#129
#129
ClearwaterVol said:
Was it a lawful order or am I simply required to say, "yes, master." and comply when a cop demands I do something?
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Seems like this is something a lawyer would know.

Remember this cop is a representative of the government you want to expand powers of. Seems like you arent just saying yes master, but have on the gimp suit with ball gag removed only to give the above response.
 
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#131
#131
LouderVol said:
Seems like this is something a lawyer would know.

Remember this cop is a representative of the government you want to expand powers of. Seems like you arent just saying yes master, but have on the gimp suit with ball gag removed only to give the above response.
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When have I ever advocated for the expansion of police powers?
 
#133
#133
ClearwaterVol said:
I say start throwing the power tripping cops who overstep their mandate in jail. False imprisonment, murder etc. Stop giving them passes.

This comment has nothing to do with this incident but cops in general who are trained to trample on the individual freedoms of the very people they are supposed to serve.
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So do you feel the same way about state, local and federal governments trampling on individual freedoms?
 
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#134
#134
ClearwaterVol said:
I say start throwing the power tripping cops who overstep their mandate in jail. False imprisonment, murder etc. Stop giving them passes.

This comment has nothing to do with this incident but cops in general who are trained to trample on the individual freedoms of the very people they are supposed to serve.
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Where are they "being trained to trample on the individual freedoms of the very people they are supposed to serve."?

Some legitimate examples would be appreciated.

If they are being trained (that means policy) to do just that, then the Chief/Sheriff, the trainers, the city/county, all are subject to liability.

As a lawyer, if this is so, you should be salivating at the opportunity to win many lawsuits, bigly.
 
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#136
#136
37L1 said:
Where are they "being trained to trample on the individual freedoms of the very people they are supposed to serve."?

Some legitimate examples would be appreciated.

If they are being trained (that means policy) to do just that, then the Chief/Sheriff, the trainers, the city/county, all are subject to liability.

As a lawyer, if this is so, you should be salivating at the opportunity to win many lawsuits, bigly.
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You will not get the answer you are looking for.
 
#137
#137
NorthDallas40 said:
In the video it looks like instead of trying to subdue they all threw drew their firearms. I really want to hear the reasoning why all three thought that level of escalation was the correct approach.

You can hear somebody screaming over and over “don’t you do it! Don’t you do it!”

We simply need more information.
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If a suspect spins around on you and you have any reason to believe he had a weapon, or may have a weapon the last thing you want to do is close ground on him, on the flip side of there's a vehicle involved you also don't want to allow them into the vehicle to abscond or use it as a weapon. Seems like they were caught in a very difficult situation.
 
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#138
#138
ClearwaterVol said:
When have I ever advocated for the expansion of police powers?
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guns.

And how else do you expand government powers without expanding the scope that cops have to cover?

That's what's caused a lot of these issues between the cops and the black community. The war on drugs was a wrongful government expansion that put the cops in an expanded role.
 
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#141
#141
KB5252 said:
If a suspect spins around on you and you have any reason to believe he had a weapon, or may have a weapon the last thing you want to do is close ground on him, on the flip side of there's a vehicle involved you also don't want to allow them into the vehicle to abscond or use it as a weapon. Seems like they were caught in a very difficult situation.
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Also given the fact the guy had a history of assault against police officers and resisting arrest. This was a tragedy but why is it so hard for people to comply with law enforcement?
 
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#142
#142
37L1 said:
Where are they "being trained to trample on the individual freedoms of the very people they are supposed to serve."?

Some legitimate examples would be appreciated.

If they are being trained (that means policy) to do just that, then the Chief/Sheriff, the trainers, the city/county, all are subject to liability.

As a lawyer, if this is so, you should be salivating at the opportunity to win many lawsuits, bigly.
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I generally do not sue police departments when a criminal is roughed up or has their rights violated. This probably makes me part of the problem, but I don't like the optics it provides our other clients especially on the business side of the firm.

Examples -

1. Cops making illegal commands. Forcing you to do something for which they have no legal basis
2. Cops using excessive force. Many of these videos showing interactions do not require the level of force being used.
3. Cops who shoot because they are too scared to do the job. ex the armed guy who answered the door and was immediately executed by the cops who then did not even render aid.
4. The training cops receive on how to get people to "voluntarily" give up their rights. They should protect your rights not trick you into giving them up.
 
#144
#144
ClearwaterVol said:
I generally do not sue police departments when a criminal is roughed up or has their rights violated. This probably makes me part of the problem, but I don't like the optics it provides our other clients especially on the business side of the firm.

Examples -

1. Cops making illegal commands. Forcing you to do something for which they have no legal basis
2. Cops using excessive force. Many of these videos showing interactions do not require the level of force being used.
3. Cops who shoot because they are too scared to do the job. ex the armed guy who answered the door and was immediately executed by the cops who then did not even render aid.
4. The training cops receive on how to get people to "voluntarily" give up their rights. They should protect your rights not trick you into giving them up.
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So you have given examples of types of behavior you don't agree with. Do you have any policies/training documents from any departments where those examples you have given are departmental policy and are part of their training program? Are the examples you have given used by all cops, all the time, e.g, SOP or are they anecdotal?

As far as training police to get people to "voluntarily give up their rights", is that illegal? If it isn't, then your problem apparently is not with the police but with the legal system within which you work.
 
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#145
#145
TNVOLNAVY said:
Not his first rodeo.

Police: K9 Dozer Helps Subdue Man Who Pulled Gun at Bar | Local News I Racine County Eye - Racine, Wisconsin

Jacob-Blake.png
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it never is
 
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#147
#147
37L1 said:
So you have given examples of types of behavior you don't agree with. Do you have any policies/training documents from any departments where those examples you have given are departmental policy and are part of their training program? Are the examples you have given used by all cops, all the time, e.g, SOP or are they anecdotal?

As far as training police to get people to "voluntarily give up their rights", is that illegal? If it isn't, then your problem apparently is not with the police but with the legal system within which you work.
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The statements and determinations of law enforcement administrators in many of these situations are that the officer followed department policy.

Disagree with the legal/therefore not their problem conclusion. A department can choose to be better than the floor set by the law.
 
#148
#148
Maybe if police departments and academies hadn’t started lowering the standards for cadet entry, we wouldn’t be having these issues today.
 
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#150
#150
MG1968 said:
Maybe if police departments and academies hadn’t started lowering the standards for cadet entry, we wouldn’t be having these issues today.
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They have to because not many people are signing up to be a cop with the low pay vs hazards vs public attitude.
 
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