Proof of the Collapse of the Republic

#101
#101
Where have I voiced all of the negatives and none of the positives? No I don't agree with not allowing anyone in. I agree with well run processes and order.
 
#103
#103
CSpindizzy said:
You're killing me. I love how you just take one sentence and run with it to the extreme. I'll flip this for you. All you do is voice all of the negatives and nothing positive. So flipping this around, perhaps we should just wall up the entire country and not allow anyone in?
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You didn't answer the question.

What is the point of having borders?
 
#104
#104
Well a decent percentage of them are here for good reasons, work hard, and are looking for "The American Dream". Which is why I have no problem with immigration. I have a problem with chaos being called border security.
 
#106
#106
CSpindizzy said:
Why should I answer? I've never said we shouldn't have borders. Perhaps if my statements were taken in context certain people would not assume what my position was.
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Then why respond to my post when I asked the question and say I was running to one extreme, then proceed to be facetious and ask why we don't just build a wall around the country and keep everyone else out?

You responded to the question, created a sarcastic question, but didn't really answer the original question.:ermm:
 
#107
#107
allvol123 said:
Well a decent percentage of them are here for good reasons, work hard, and are looking for "The American Dream". Which is why I have no problem with immigration. I have a problem with chaos being called border security.
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Well thank you for finally saying something positive. I checked and this is the first.
 
#108
#108
Actually I was not responding to you. I was responding to AllVol's highlighting one sentence of my previous post and being facetious with him.
 
#109
#109
I agree with legal borders but in examining the 'crime' I think we must really see why people are breaking the law in the first place. Obviously there is a need for cheap labor. While TVA claims this should be determined by the market, I say it already is. If businesses want cheap labor with higher work ethic, they hire these illegals. The market is after profit. If they can get the same results with cheaper labor costs, they will go that route. If they can skirt the system and avoid payroll taxes and a mound of paperwork, they will do so.

My argument on this issue is hypocrisy by many. Certain leaders claim this is a rule of law issue. Well in crimes such as the drug trade you can either round up thousands of users and small time dealers or go for the big boys and shut down the operations altogether. The same goes for illegal immigration. If this is truly rule of law then go after the ones who are creating this crisis - the Americans who hire them. If this is a matter of rule of law, make it painful to businesses and people who do not go through the proper means to identify their labor force. These people are defrauding the IRS, Social Security, state revenue departments, and ultimately the taxpayers. So stick it to them if this issue is so evil and corrupt and detrimental to our society. All I see is people like Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo along with the Minutemen all making this about a southern border and Mexicans. No one wants to touch the ones who are actually creating this and facilitating this and defrauding you and I.

As far as craft and trade like electricians getting stiffed by this, I think that is a wash. My father owns a business. It takes a licensed electrician to get permits. If one gets beat on bids because of illegals then some other contractor is at fault. So you can go blame the illegals or the fellow licensed electrician for doing the same. Honestly legal status means no difference. Many in construction could care less and still pay their workers under the table to beat others and avoid paying taxes. TVA's example won't be stopped by getting rid of illegals. Cheating like that happens even with Americans filling the labor pool.
 
#110
#110
emainvol said:
You mean people that came to this country for a better life shouldn't be allowed in? Why? How do you think your family got here? The only people that have a dog in this fight are Native Americans.
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ridiculous statement.

CSpindizzy said:
And again, how does crossing an imaginary line compare to stealing other people's money and threatening their lives?
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it's not an imaginary line.
CSpindizzy said:
Americans are collecting illegally as well. Americans are hiring these illegals and thus more will come. Why not gripe about those Americans who are the ones breaking American laws?
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i don't disagree with that, but the american people should be ready for the consequences of doing that....which leads me to.....

therealUT said:
These "undocumented workers" are actually doing the exact opposite of "stealing our money." They are putting and keeping more money in our own pockets. Because of the risks they have assumed, we spend less money as consumers for more goods.

.
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agre with that 100%. many of these illegal immigrants are performing jobs, at a much lower wage, than american workers can afford to do. if this illegal workforce disappeared, we'd pay for it in raised prices due to higher wages.

this arguement completely typifies the double edged sword analogy. We want to shut down borders, keep american jobs at home, but one has to ask themselves.....would you want the higher costs of goods as a result?

these people are not executives at major corporations.....they are constructions workers, food pickers, temporary labor in the transportation industry loading and unloading trucks (and not the skilled type job that requires vehicle certifications, i'm talking about manual labor...a holes and elbows, not riding around on a forklift)......

all this to provide the average american reduction in cost on the end of line product.

this is a much bigger problem than many would like to think it is......and it has no "smoking gun" cause and no one law or policy is going to fix it.
 
#113
#113
CSpindizzy said:
Well thank you for finally saying something positive. I checked and this is the first.
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I doubt you checked, but you are welcome. And you would be incorrect by stating it is the first. But that certainly wouldn't be a first for you.
 
#114
#114
allvol123 said:
I doubt you checked, but you are welcome. And you would be incorrect by stating it is the first. But that certainly wouldn't be a first for you.
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Actually I checked every post from you in this topic. Show me where I am incorrect. Where did you state the positives of these people prior to this? PLEASE show me.
 
#115
#115
CSpindizzy said:
Actually I checked every post from you in this topic. Show me where I am incorrect. Where did you state the positives of these people prior to this? PLEASE show me.
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Didn't know you were only talking about this thread. You said this topic not this thread. So when you get done checking every post I have made concerning the topic of illegal immigration, PLEASE get back to me.
 
#116
#116
Actually I said "topic" AFTER you made the claim you did say something positive. I'm waiting to see where you said something positive. You didn't even know which I was referring to and you made the claim? Can you show me something to back up your claim?
 
#117
#117
CSpindizzy said:
Actually I said "topic" AFTER you made the claim you did say something positive. I'm waiting to see where you said something positive. You didn't even know which I was referring to and you made the claim? Can you show me something to back up your claim?
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Not my job to go back and research through hundreds of posts. You made the false claim of looking through all my posts and saying I have never said anything positive. I know what you were referring to, you said "topic" not "thread", maybe you should be more precise. So I did not know what you were referring to? Meaning you might have been referring only to this thread? Which might have contained 5-10 posts by me up to that point? You used that to say you have "never" said anything positive. Real good if that was your intent, lol, there are a lot of things I have never been able to get said in a meager 5-10 posts. Keep going in circles CSpinn. Do they sell a version of you at Toys R Us? My dogs would be entertained chasing it around.
 
#118
#118
LOL....false claim. Before I even said topic you claimed you made positive comments about illegals. So technically until you show otherwise, 'false claim' is more your title. I find it funny how the whole defense you can come up with is something long after you made your initial claim. So if you want to talk about 5-10 posts, let's go back to your original claim far before mine. Where's your backup? I'm not sure how you get going in circles from a meager asking of proof of your claim. Back and forth is not circles...perhaps Toys R Us sells something that teaches shapes.

As I've said to you before....moving on. Trying to get claims from you that are backed up are pointless.
 
#119
#119
Back to the original topic here...anyone seen any new news on the AL militia and their plans to make war on the illegals?
 
#122
#122
Tenn_Vol_Authority said:
Or it could mean destroying something that is good and virtuous just for the sake of destroying it because it is "good and virtuous". Not claiming that America is perfect and is without flaws, but some of these leftists and illegals would love nothing more than to destroy this country for no other reason than to bring everyone down to the same lowest denominator. That is also a form of nihilism.

But anyways, I blame the people that hire these illegals just as much as I do the ones that are crossing. We need to lock up a few of these guys that hire these illegals and we need to truely enforce our border laws and defend our border.

We wouldn't want any Al-Qaeda to sneak in with Gorge, Jesus or Juan...
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I don't think there is any possible way you can prove your first paragraph. So I will leave the argument there.
 
#124
#124
g8terh8ter_eric said:
15 x 12,000,000 x 52. That's the problem right there. Shoot if you wanted to you can plug-in the price for a gallon of gas and see how much money that is.

As far as another language, it should be something we CHOOSE to do. Why does my child need to know Spanish at 8 years old, when statistics show our children can't even match up with other countries on the BASIC levels on other subjects?? Again, the argument is being forced to learn something opposed to choosing to learn something.
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Where did you come up with 15 gallons and 12,000,000 illegal drivers?
 
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