Proof to put the 9/11 Truthers to bed in less than 2 mins

[LouderVol]

So these people who have gone through similar, if not the same training as the ones who agreed with what the government said are just wrong? Why? Is it just because the majority of them agree? What if that majority's opinions hinged on a government grant or back door deal? Also, please dont pretend like the government doesnt pay groups of people under the table to get whatever it wants.

Seems to me there are many conflicting opinions on 9/11 as a whole. Of course anyone who questions the government is automatically labeled as a "conspiracy theorist." Its sad that its easier to find those who blindly believe anything the government says as opposed to those who question. Blue pill or red pill I guess.

what I am calling bs on is the collapse "theories". the rest of 911 and how much the government knew I give credence to. the collapse, absolutely not.

and I would say its easier to find the conspiracy theorists more than the "government talking heads".

google 9/11 and the first page has either museum talk, the new tower or conspiracies. calm headed discussions don't provide clicks.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

People want to believe things contrary to be facts because they cannot reconcile the facts. They can't believe that a few dozen nut jobs with a lot of money and a lot of hate could do something like this. They can't believe such large buildings could be destroyed without mysterious clandestine machinations. A Fabrege egg took months to create. A four year old with a hammer could destroy it. It's the inequality of skill relative to construction and destruction that bothers the conspiracy theorists. So instead they create a story where equally opposing forces are engaged. I think it speaks to a lot of people's beliefs that bad things don't happen to good people, and when faced with mortality it needs a more elaborate plot.

 

[LouderVol]

Propaganda Can’t Melt Steel Beams Washington's Blog

its not about melting numbnuts. stick it in your oven at 400 degrees and it loses strength.

hopefully my image attaches and you can see the chart from the Steel Construction Manual I keep on my desk.

at 1400 degrees steel's strength can be assumed to be .11 of its nominal. at 1600 .07. so its safe to say at 1500 the steel was very very weak.

 

[LouderVol]

^ yay for my sideways image attaching skills.

 

[red butler]

surely there's a better way to cover it up then to kill 3,000 Americans in a plan so complex that I can't even get my head around how people believe it was invented by multiple government agencies. The same agencies that can't properly vet a terrorist that claims she's allegiant to ISIS on her facebook page

Yet you can get your head around a plan so complex that a couple dozen people in the caves of Afghanistan were able to pull it off. Heck, in today's world you wouldn't even need the involvement of government agencies to plan an event like 9/11. Defense contractors have insane budgets, very competent people, great political connections and have very little oversight. I would wager that our defense contractors would be able to wage an effective war against most of the countries in the world without any assistance from the DOD. You guys don't find it the least bit intriguing that bin Laden's brother was meeting with senior members of the Carlyle group during the attack?

I don't get the backlash against people that question the official 9/11 narrative. There was certainly a conspiracy, the 28 pages withheld from the 9/11 report that a handful of the only decent representatives in congress say changed their outlook on how foreign policy has been executed indicate there was at least a coverup.

WTC7 didn't fall the way I would expect a tower that sustained damage to one of its' sides. The multitude of other inconsistencies make me curious. But you guys believe that a passport survived the initial impact, the 1800 degree heat that followed, and the collapse that pulverized 100s of stories of steel and concrete into powder. Then we get comments like it's amazing what applying simple reason and logic to everyday life can do to a person. I just don't get it.

 

[LouderVol]

Yet you can get your head around a plan so complex that a couple dozen people in the caves of Afghanistan were able to pull it off. Heck, in today's world you wouldn't even need the involvement of government agencies to plan an event like 9/11. Defense contractors have insane budgets, very competent people, great political connections and have very little oversight. I would wager that our defense contractors would be able to wage an effective war against most of the countries in the world without any assistance from the DOD. You guys don't find it the least bit intriguing that bin Laden's brother was meeting with senior members of the Carlyle group during the attack?

I don't get the backlash against people that question the official 9/11 narrative. There was certainly a conspiracy, the 28 pages withheld from the 9/11 report that a handful of the only decent representatives in congress say changed their outlook on how foreign policy has been executed indicate there was at least a coverup.

WTC7 didn't fall the way I would expect a tower that sustained damage to one of its' sides. The multitude of other inconsistencies make me curious. But you guys believe that a passport survived the initial impact, the 1800 degree heat that followed, and the collapse that pulverized 100s of stories of steel and concrete into powder. Then we get comments like it's amazing what applying simple reason and logic to everyday life can do to a person. I just don't get it.

weren't there also people who fell a couple stories and walked away? not saying such events are proof positive for the passport, just saying weird stuff happens and it doesn't have to be a conspiracy to explain it.

 

[BeecherVol]

Right...

So, again, no plausible answers as to why they wouldn't allow the fire to continue destroying the towers.

And if it was rigged, why didn't the fire set off the explosives before it did?

Oh wait, thermite plasma or whatever that theory is.

 

[LouderVol]

Yet you can get your head around a plan so complex that a couple dozen people in the caves of Afghanistan were able to pull it off. Heck, in today's world you wouldn't even need the involvement of government agencies to plan an event like 9/11. Defense contractors have insane budgets, very competent people, great political connections and have very little oversight. I would wager that our defense contractors would be able to wage an effective war against most of the countries in the world without any assistance from the DOD. You guys don't find it the least bit intriguing that bin Laden's brother was meeting with senior members of the Carlyle group during the attack?

I don't get the backlash against people that question the official 9/11 narrative. There was certainly a conspiracy, the 28 pages withheld from the 9/11 report that a handful of the only decent representatives in congress say changed their outlook on how foreign policy has been executed indicate there was at least a coverup.

WTC7 didn't fall the way I would expect a tower that sustained damage to one of its' sides. The multitude of other inconsistencies make me curious. But you guys believe that a passport survived the initial impact, the 1800 degree heat that followed, and the collapse that pulverized 100s of stories of steel and concrete into powder. Then we get comments like it's amazing what applying simple reason and logic to everyday life can do to a person. I just don't get it.

to me it makes more sense the smaller the group pulling it off. the old adage about 2 people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. more people, more technology the closer to home the more likely to be stopped.

 

[james_govols]

It's always a good idea to destroy the hell out of your ships in order to have a reason to join a war:

2 battleships totally lost
2 battleships sunk and recovered
3 battleships damaged
1 battleship grounded
2 other ships sunk[nb 2]
3 cruisers damaged[nb 3]
3 destroyers damaged
3 other ships damaged
188 aircraft destroyed
159[3] aircraft damaged
2,403 killed
1,178 wounded[4][5] 4 midget submarines sunk
1 midget submarine grounded
29 aircraft destroyed
64 killed
1 captured[6]

Come on now Carl, did I really need to add blue font to my post? Lol.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

"Diehard 3 with a Vengeance"?

Life imitating art...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

People want to believe things contrary to be facts because they cannot reconcile the facts.

I believed the entire 9/11 narrative until about 3 years ago. I used to routinely laugh off 9/11 Truthers as just a bunch of Bush/America Hating socialists.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yet you can get your head around a plan so complex that a couple dozen people in the caves of Afghanistan were able to pull it off. Heck, in today's world you wouldn't even need the involvement of government agencies to plan an event like 9/11.

Watch the reaction you would get if you offered the possibility that Israeli and Saudi Intelligence agencies are the more likely conspirators.

WTC7 didn't fall the way I would expect a tower that sustained damage to one of its' sides. The multitude of other inconsistencies make me curious. But you guys believe that a passport survived the initial impact, the 1800 degree heat that followed, and the collapse that pulverized 100s of stories of steel and concrete into powder. Then we get comments like it's amazing what applying simple reason and logic to everyday life can do to a person. I just don't get it.

In Terrorism 101 class, the very first thing they should teach those guys is to don't bring ID to a hit job. 9/11, Charlie Hebdo (sp) and the recent Paris attacks a few weeks ago all had incidences of terrorists leaving behind passports.

 

[Pacer92]

its not about melting numbnuts. stick it in your oven at 400 degrees and it loses strength.

hopefully my image attaches and you can see the chart from the Steel Construction Manual I keep on my desk.

at 1400 degrees steel's strength can be assumed to be .11 of its nominal. at 1600 .07. so its safe to say at 1500 the steel was very very weak.

Even if so, that does nothing to explain the pancaking of 80 stories below that were totally unharmed, peckerhead...

 

[volprof]

what I am calling bs on is the collapse "theories". the rest of 911 and how much the government knew I give credence to. the collapse, absolutely not.

and I would say its easier to find the conspiracy theorists more than the "government talking heads".

google 9/11 and the first page has either museum talk, the new tower or conspiracies. calm headed discussions don't provide clicks.

I can't believe I keep dignifying this thread, but this is where I am. It's not that I give no credit to skepticism of the government's actions in and around 9-11. As I've stated, I believe the Bush administration was extremely unscrupulous during that time, despite multiple warnings from the intelligence establishment. I do not, however, think there is any evidence that should warrant any of us to think that the government (or some other powers that be) were willingly in on it.

Given how many people would have had to know of the operation to make it succeed, there's simply no way it could remain a secret indefinitely. Given that and given the fact we really have no evidence otherwise, I'm going to stick with the official narrative: that planes hijacked by al-Qaeda terrorists brought down the Twin Towers.

We've seen in Russia what actually happens when a government actually invents "terrorism" to achieve its ends, and too many people get involved in a plot like this. We know pretty much for a fact that a Kremlin/Yeltsin/Putin alliance was behind the 1999 apartment bombings there, yet we have no such evidence (a smoking gun like the FSB caught red-handed with bombs at a complex) for 9-11. It's just simply implausible that an operation this big could be kept quite for this long if it were in fact not what it appears to be. The 1999 Moscow bombings are nearly proof of that, although I admit anything is possible.

 

[tumscalcium]

I believed the entire 9/11 narrative until about 3 years ago. I used to routinely laugh off 9/11 Truthers as just a bunch of Bush/America Hating socialists.

That's during the beginning of your transition from primarily hating black women and moving on to conspiracy theories.

 

[hndog609]

Even if so, that does nothing to explain the pancaking of 80 stories below that were totally unharmed, peckerhead...

That's been covered in the other thread, in this thread and who knows how many other exhaustive explanations, like this one:

Towers Collapse - Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and controlled demolition

 

[Pacer92]

That's been covered in the other thread, in this thread and who knows how many other exhaustive explanations, like this one:

Towers Collapse - Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and controlled demolition

:lolabove:

 

[hndog609]

:lolabove:

A most erudite retort...truly.

 

[Pacer92]

A most erudite retort...truly.

It's so very hard to see anything "erudite" with this.

This is nothing but nutrena...

 

[malinoisvol]

The government did it all.... They had demolitionists dressed as cleaning crews using drills and other tools with silencers for over a year leading up to 9/11.

So you are saying the Clinton's had a hand in 9/11?

 

[ajvol01]

Life imitating art...

Yippee ki-yay Mr Falcon

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soeQ1i-tYAg[/youtube]

 

[1972 Grad]

I can't believe I keep dignifying this thread, but this is where I am. It's not that I give no credit to skepticism of the government's actions in and around 9-11. As I've stated, I believe the Bush administration was extremely unscrupulous during that time, despite multiple warnings from the intelligence establishment. I do not, however, think there is any evidence that should warrant any of us to think that the government (or some other powers that be) were willingly in on it.

Given how many people would have had to know of the operation to make it succeed, there's simply no way it could remain a secret indefinitely. Given that and given the fact we really have no evidence otherwise, I'm going to stick with the official narrative: that planes hijacked by al-Qaeda terrorists brought down the Twin Towers.

We've seen in Russia what actually happens when a government actually invents "terrorism" to achieve its ends, and too many people get involved in a plot like this. We know pretty much for a fact that a Kremlin/Yeltsin/Putin alliance was behind the 1999 apartment bombings there, yet we have no such evidence (a smoking gun like the FSB caught red-handed with bombs at a complex) for 9-11. It's just simply implausible that an operation this big could be kept quite for this long if it were in fact not what it appears to be. The 1999 Moscow bombings are nearly proof of that, although I admit anything is possible.

You don't have a picture of Cheney planting explosives? Wanna buy one?

 

[malinoisvol]

So far in this thread, I've read the following comments:

"Idiot", "Numbnutz", "Peckerhead" and a desire for the return of "parachute pants".

All we need now is a "split ride/room" for this thread to be epic. Lol

 

[hog88]

Since we have so many structural experts in this thread I have a question. I need to span 17.5' on a deck, would I need to 2ply or 3ply 2x12s to be safe?

 

[VolStrom]

Since we have so many structural experts in this thread I have a question. I need to span 17.5' on a deck, would I need to 2ply or 3ply 2x12s to be safe?

Single should be okay for up to 20-30 feet. Trust me.