Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

[jave36]

No reason to be sensitive just givin you a hard time

Fair enough. I suppose I responded somewhat like a 12 year old, or at least a 14 year old.

 

[Vfl2407]

Not even joking.. I think ESPN should consider the possibility of Corso stroking out on live TV this year.

Take him off.

Kinda reminds me of what ABC did with Dick Clark.
They kept putting him on their New Years Eve show after his stroke.

 

[LaagerVol]

Why don't you go watch the 2nd half again? Check the game thread too, there were dozens of post about Herbstreit saying QD needs to be keeping it more.

If you disagree with him too, I definitely won't be able to convince you.

I think Herbstreit may have been seeing what I was seeing. A play that looks like an option at first glance, but really wasn't. If that's the case, it isn't on QD at all, but rather on the coaches. Maybe they should call more options, I think they probably should, but for the most part, at least in the first game, they weren't giving QD the option to keep very often.

Edit* and you basically already said that

 

[Tennessee Golfer]

What a glorious Saturday for some Vol football! Anyone in section M that needs a buddy I'll be the guy in orange sitting awkwardly by himself.

 

[jave36]

I think Herbstreit may have been seeing what I was seeing. A play that looks like an option at first glance, but really wasn't. If that's the case, it isn't on QD at all, but rather on the coaches. Maybe they should call more options, I think they probably should, but for the most part, at least in the first game, they weren't giving QD the option to keep very often.

Well, I was basing my stance on Herbstreit knowing the difference better than any of us.

 

[LaagerVol]

Well, I was basing my stance on Herbstreit knowing the difference better than any of us.

Would be interesting to watch film with him after a game that he called, to see if he still felt the same about certain things he said.

 

[NochNoch]

I think Herbstreit may have been seeing what I was seeing. A play that looks like an option at first glance, but really wasn't. If that's the case, it isn't on QD at all, but rather on the coaches. Maybe they should call more options, I think they probably should, but for the most part, at least in the first game, they weren't giving QD the option to keep very often.

Not asking this bc I disagree with the point you're making but bc I'm curious based off what you were saying you read about the plays/system. What are you seeing/looking for that lets you know it is a designed handoff instead of a read? Since the QB and RB seem to play it identically is there something the OL does that tips it off?

 

[Volnukem]

Why don't you go watch the 2nd half again? Check the game thread too, there were dozens of post about Herbstreit saying QD needs to be keeping it more.

If you disagree with him too, I definitely won't be able to convince you.

I do disagree with him. For anyone else that cares, the "45 second diatribe" starts at 2:07:08 and ends at 2:07:30. The play is just before it. He makes his statement that Dormady should have kept it after a called run play. It was a split flow zone where Ethan Wolf comes across the formation to block the backside end. It wasn't an option play. Here is some more info about split zone.

http://www.syedschemes.com/tag/split-zone/

 

[NochNoch]

I do disagree with him. For anyone else that cares, the "45 second diatribe" starts at 2:07:08 and ends at 2:07:30. The play is just before it. He makes his statement that Dormady should have kept it after a called run play. It was a split flow zone where Ethan Wolf comes across the formation to block the backside end. It wasn't an option play. Here is some more info about split zone.

http://www.syedschemes.com/tag/split-zone/

Well look at you with your perfect timing!

 

[LaagerVol]

Well look at you with your perfect timing!

Lol glad he chimed in because I honestly didn't know.

 

[jjay2518]

Butch actually addressed the fans about this specifically a couple years ago and tried to explain how not all plays that look like a read option are actually an option.

 

[SpringBokVol]

Not asking this bc I disagree with the point you're making but bc I'm curious based off what you were saying you read about the plays/system. What are you seeing/looking for that lets you know it is a designed handoff instead of a read? Since the QB and RB seem to play it identically is there something the OL does that tips it off?

I clear sign is the mesh point.

If the QB holds it in there it is an option if he straights gives it without reading it is a handoff.

 

[Volnukem]

Not asking this bc I disagree with the point you're making but bc I'm curious based off what you were saying you read about the plays/system. What are you seeing/looking for that lets you know it is a designed handoff instead of a read? Since the QB and RB seem to play it identically is there something the OL does that tips it off?

For it to be a read, there has to be a read key. This is the guy that has to make the decision whether to tackle the QB or the RB. Usually, it is a DE, but sometimes it can be a DT or LB. If it is an LB, then it is usually an RPO. The QB is always going to provide some sort of fake using his legs or his eyes even if it is a designed handoff.

 

[LaagerVol]

Butch actually addressed the fans about this specifically a couple years ago and tried to explain how not all plays that look like a read option are actually an option.

I remember when he did that. I knew that was true, but I didn't realize to what extent. I still feel like they try to protect the QBs by not calling as many option plays.

 

[Ace]

I clear sign is the mesh point.

If the QB holds it in there it is an option if he straights gives it without reading it is a handoff.

Exactly, we ran very few options on Monday.

 

[Volnukem]

I remember when he did that. I knew that was true, but I didn't realize to what extent. I still feel like they try to protect the QBs by not calling as many option plays.

Now I can agree with this and what jave is saying. Option plays give you leverage and numbers and should be used often.

 

[LaagerVol]

For it to be a read, there has to be a read key. This is the guy that has to make the decision whether to tackle the QB or the RB. Usually, it is a DE, but sometimes it can be a DT or LB. If it is an LB, then it is usually an RPO. The QB is always going to provide some sort of fake using his legs or his eyes even if it is a designed handoff.

So most of the time you're looking for the unblocked guy, but even that can be tricky sometimes to differentiate between a missed block and purposely leaving someone unblocked, esp if the DT is the read key.

 

[jjay2518]

I remember when he did that. I knew that was true, but I didn't realize to what extent. I still feel like they try to protect the QBs by not calling as many option plays.

Oh I agree. A few more a game would only help the running game IMO. People just need to realize it's not always (or even usually) on QD for making the wrong read. Dobbs got called out for that too when it wasn't always the case.

 

[NochNoch]

I clear sign is the mesh point.

If the QB holds it in there it is an option if he straights gives it without reading it is a handoff.

Yeah, on those it does make it pretty obvious when the QB delays and delays on a decision but on the two times QD did keep on Monday it didn't really seem like it was quite that easy to see. Appeared, at least to me, to be identical as the straight handoffs but then all of a sudden he was off around the corner. Don't recall there really being any obvious reading of the end going on.

 

[Volnukem]

So most of the time you're looking for the unblocked guy, but even that can be tricky sometimes to differentiate between a missed block and purposely leaving someone unblocked, esp if the DT is the read key.

Yes, but we don't run many plays that key off the DT. GT does with midline being the predominant play of that type.

 

[Volnukem]

Yeah, on those it does make it pretty obvious when the QB delays and delays on a decision but on the two times QD did keep on Monday it didn't really seem like it was quite that easy to see. Appeared, at least to me, to be identical as the straight handoffs but then all of a sudden he was off around the corner. Don't recall there really being any obvious reading of the end going on.

The first one we didn't even get to see the start of the play. The second one was an inverted veer and the DE ran hard upfield and didn't attack the mesh so it was an easy read.

 

[LaagerVol]

Good stuff guys. See, it IS possible to have civil conversation about football on here.

Where is that pink fluffy unicorn??

GBO!

 

[Volnukem]

One thing I will add is that many of the options we ran were in the Red Zone or close to it, which I am a big fan off.

 

[LaagerVol]

The first one we didn't even get to see the start of the play. The second one was an inverted veer and the DE ran hard upfield and didn't attack the mesh so it was an easy read.

I like the inverted veer plays.

 

[orangefreak21]

Game line up today/tonight is fantastic