Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

[Darth_Shiveman]

I don't think so. I think Darth linked the contract earlier. I know he linked an old one but may have followed up with the revised one. It's like 28 pages though. Godspeed. Lol.

You don't have to read all 28 pages, just section 3 (conveniently marked with the header "Termination"). Specifically 3.1.4 which outlines that Should Butch find "comparable employment," his liquidated damages (yearly buyout sum) would decrease on a dollar-for-dollar amount with his new salary.

As for new vs revised contract, that's not really how it works. The first contract he signed is still his base contract. Any extensions and raises are just added on as 2-3 page amendments that update language of specific clauses. It's kind of like the constitution in that way.

Any way, neither of the 2 ammendments to Butch's contract mention section 3.1.4 of his base contract. So basically, the offset language in his contract was never changed.

 

[RockyTop85]

Grab a snickers. I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

I'm pretty sure you're saying to give Jones an extension or fire him. There's no scenario where one of those isn't the best choice. I disagree for the reasons stated above.

In the event of another 8-4 season or maybe an ugly 9-3 with certain schools seeing head coach turnover and entering the market, a decent recruiting class still holding together, I wouldn't be too upset with retaining him. In that scenario I absolutely would be opposed to an extension.

I don't think any better result than that is plausible at this point although I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[VolGee4]

Durkin actually has a better resume than Norvell. Check his bio. He's had significant success as both special teams coordinator and defensive coordinator in the SEC, defensive coordinator under Harbaugh, will have 2 years experience as a power 5 head coach (this includes a win over Texas, proving he can win a game vs. an opponent with superior talent).

Yea, I checked it before I said that. Not a bad bio, but his years with Muschamp weren't very good. Coaching under Harbaugh is great experience, but it is with Saban as well. His 6 wins last year weren't all that impressive. Norvell is young and has figured out how to market a program. At this point, I just think you have to gamble on a boom or bust if you can't hire someone who has done it before. To appease the masses, you can't hire a steady, good coach. You have to hire someone that can recruit at a high level and has the potential to win big.,

 

[csprig9]

I'm not suggesting we fire Jones tomorrow, but I think there's enough evidence that he's not going to get it done to at least speculate on possible replacements on a message board devoted to speculation. He can shut us all up here in a couple of weeks if he likes.

He can shut it all up if his only remaining loss is to bama and not an embarrassing blowout

 

[BigZiti09]

You don't have to read all 28 pages, just section 3 (conveniently marked with the header "Termination"). Specifically 3.1.4 which outlines that Should Butch find "comparable employment," his liquidated damages (yearly buyout sum) would decrease on a dollar-for-dollar amount with his new salary.

As for new vs revised contract, that's not really how it works. The first contract he signed is still his base contract. Any extensions and raises are just added on as 2-3 page amendments that update language of specific clauses. It's kind of like the constitution in that way.

Any way, neither of the 2 ammendments to Butch's contract mention section 3.1.4 of his base contract. So basically, the offset language in his contract was never changed.

Sweet. I just knew I wasn't digging into that thing on mobile.

This probably ups the chances that we part ways with him.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Thats what he is gonna try to do in my opinion. CBJ could double dip like Charlie Weiss did. Sexton works universities for money all the time.

I just don't see CBJ winning enough to make a lateral move or a move to a slightly less desirable place. Like a UNC or an NC State.

Not possible under his current contract.

 

[VolGee4]

I'm pretty sure you're saying to give Jones an extension or fire him. There's no scenario where one of those isn't the best choice. I disagree for the reasons stated above.

In the event of another 8-4 season or maybe an ugly 9-3 with certain schools seeing head coach turnover and entering the market, a decent recruiting class still holding together, I wouldn't be too upset with retaining him. In that scenario I absolutely would be opposed to an extension.

I don't think any better result than that is plausible at this point although I'd love to be proven wrong.

I agree with Ziti. Retaining him with no extension is program suicide. You just can't move forward with a lame duck coach. It's pointless. Even if he keeps this recruiting class, you are setting him up to fail, and no one wants that.

 

[McGeesPub]

I’ve seen 4 seasons to have a pretty good idea how this season plays out. I have an educated guess.

The evidence refuting this opinion is evaporating by the week. I want nothing more than to hammer our rivals for the rest of the season, but it's certainly not idiotic to examine the trends.

 

[BigZiti09]

I'm pretty sure you're saying to give Jones an extension or fire him. There's no scenario where one of those isn't the best choice. I disagree for the reasons stated above.

In the event of another 8-4 season or maybe an ugly 9-3 with certain schools seeing head coach turnover and entering the market, a decent recruiting class still holding together, I wouldn't be too upset with retaining him. In that scenario I absolutely would be opposed to an extension.

I don't think any better result than that is plausible at this point although I'd love to be proven wrong.

I think one way or another he's not gonna be here next spring.

If you don't extend him at 9-3 he's gonna find another job.

8-4 is the grey area where you have the possibility of bringing him back or firing him or even the possibility he moves on.

I think if he comes back for another year, you have to extend him. Just the nature of the business. Bringing him back and not extending him is the absolute worst thing we can do IMO. Won't happen.

 

[BigZiti09]

Not possible under his current contract.

Yeah. We just discussed that.

 

[jordan4vols]

Let's just go 11-1 and let the chips fall where they may. Won't be there this weekend but I'll be in my seats to watch us beat UGA. How bout it?

 

[VolGee4]

We are in a very similar situation as we were with Cuonzo Martin. People wanted him fired late in the year. I said that we need to support the team and keep winning and just evaluate the coaching situation at the end. It was best for everyone- 2 points from an Elite Eight and he takes another job.

 

[BigZiti09]

We are in a very similar situation as we were with Cuonzo Martin. People wanted him fired late in the year. I said that we need to support the team and keep winning and just evaluate the coaching situation at the end. It was best for everyone- 2 points from an Elite Eight and he takes another job.

So are you suggesting we should start a petition to get this team to get off their hump and start playing to their potential?

 

[BruinVol]

Let's just go 11-1 and let the chips fall where they may. Won't be there this weekend but I'll be in my seats to watch us beat UGA. How bout it?

Georgia looks unbeatable this weekend and destroys MSU. State is in a classic letdown spot and gets beat soundly.

And that puts the Dawgs in a classic letdown spot next weekend playing a wounded pissed off team! Vols win next week

 

[VolGee4]

So are you suggesting we should start a petition to get this team to get off their hump and start playing to their potential?

The problem with a petition is that we really don't have a former coach that we want back.

 

[jordan4vols]

Georgia looks unbeatable this weekend and destroys MSU. State is in a classic letdown spot and gets beat soundly.

And that puts the Dawgs in a classic letdown spot next weekend playing a wounded pissed off team! Vols win next week

I'll always take any victory over Fl and UGA. We get Bama at the end of an 8 game stretch. Maybe we catch them too

 

[McGeesPub]

Georgia looks unbeatable this weekend and destroys MSU. State is in a classic letdown spot and gets beat soundly.

And that puts the Dawgs in a classic letdown spot next weekend playing a wounded pissed off team! Vols win next week

I usually think narratives like these need to be considered, but I'm skeptical that Tennessee is going to be a letdown game for Georgia after playing Mississippi State. Also curious if we get all of our frustration worked out against Miss State.

 

[McGeesPub]

The problem with a petition is that we really don't have a former coach that we want back.

Well let's just all agree on a new one to petition for.

 

[kw3953]

Since when did Auburn become the program we need to pattern ourselves after?

Their boosters make sure they get the higher star recruits. For Tenn, under Fulmer our boosters would help from time to time. The boosters got spineless when Meyer joined Florida, Saban joined Bama, and Spurrier at SC...They definitely scrammed under Dooley. Butch is a fantastic recruiter as I don't think he had a "tremendous help" from them.

 

[butchna]

Y'all are overlooking Taggart.

He just landed in Oregon.

 

[thomaseusin]

Let's look at what has happened in the last 25 years since this rivalry truly began in earnest.

Since 1992, Tennessee has won the Florida game 6 times (yes, reality hurts).
* Of those 6 wins, Tennessee only won the SEC East 3 times.
This game does not determine the SEC East champion no matter how much we want to believe it!

Since 1992, Tennessee has won the SEC East 5 times.
* Of those 5 division crowns, Tennessee had lost the Florida game twice.
This game does not determine the SEC East champion no matter how much we want to believe it!

For whatever reason - boogey man, mojo - the Tennessee-Florida game has always been filled with chock full of controversy, brain farts and bad calls. It's a fun/frustrating game for us through the years, but it does not determine the SEC East champion no matter how much we want to believe it!!

But guess what, the 2 times we lost this game and won the SEC East was in 1997 and 2007. Will 2017 continue this trend?

#believe

 

[Vfl2407]

I'll always take any victory over Fl and UGA. We get Bama at the end of an 8 game stretch. Maybe we catch them too

Wow...but, no.
This Vol team could face this Bama team straight off of a 365 day cruise full of 24 hour all you can eat carbs, saturated fats, booze, cocaine, and hookers and Bama still wins by 30 points.

 

[Vfl2407]

Let's look at what has happened in the last 25 years since this rivalry truly began in earnest.

Since 1992, Tennessee has won the Florida game 6 times (yes, reality hurts).
* Of those 6 wins, Tennessee only won the SEC East 3 times.
This game does not determine the SEC East champion no matter how much we want to believe it!

Since 1992, Tennessee has won the SEC East 5 times.
* Of those 5 division crowns, Tennessee had lost the Florida game twice.
This game does not determine the SEC East champion no matter how much we want to believe it!

For whatever reason - boogey man, mojo - the Tennessee-Florida game has always been filled with chock full of controversy, brain farts and bad calls. It's a fun/frustrating game for us through the years, but it does not determine the SEC East champion no matter how much we want to believe it!!

But guess what, the 2 times we lost this game and won the SEC East was in 1997 and 2007. Will 2017 continue this trend?

#believe

So, if we beat UGA and only lose to Bama, we would only need UGA to lose once more and UF to lose 3 times.
POSSIBLE.
Wouldn't bet the mortgage

 

[BigZiti09]

So, if we beat UGA and only lose to Bama, we would only need UGA to lose once more and UF to lose 3 times.
POSSIBLE.
Wouldn't bet the mortgage

Florida is losing 3. You can bank on that.

Georgia is losing one more.

We are the least likely to execute our part of that scenario.

 

[Vfl2407]

Florida is losing 3. You can bank on that.

Georgia is losing one more.

We are the least likely to execute our part of that scenario.

I hope ur right.
Just don't see much talent in the east except for UGA
And, they aren't world beaters.