Religion/Bible/Theology Topic - Beware All Ye That Enter Here

#77
#77
I find it hard to believe that someone can tell the difference between 278 million years old and 581 million yrs old. I mean cmon now?
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#78
#78
Orangekush423 said:
Anyone. Christian or not, can see that our civilization, although supposedly progressing tech/scient at a rate we never have before, is CLEARLY degrading overall. [/i][/size]
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every civilization in the history of mankind thought that they were clearly degrading overall. every generation thinks the new generation is going to ruin the world. still hasn't happened yet. it's human nature to assume the worst. i see no evidence we are any worse off then we were 100 years ago. quite the contrary.
 
#79
#79
Orangekush423 said:
Anyone. Christian or not, can see that our civilization, although supposedly progressing tech/scient at a rate we never have before, is CLEARLY degrading overall. Signs are everywhere. Its also possible God created a perfect world and let us have free choice to show us what WE would do to it-(see current state) without Him.
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I don't believe society is degrading, I think information is more available. You can't tell me society has degraded compared to times of the industrial revolution, of slavery, or of feudal fiefdoms, of viking raiders, or living to the ripe old age of 35. Every generation thinks they are living in an exceptional time. And in some ways they are all right, and in others they are mostly all wrong.
 
#80
#80
rjd970 said:
I think it hits on a central point.

Any body that believes the earth was created in the year 8010 b.c. (making the earth 10,000 years old) is saying a lot about how they weigh observable evidence against religious faith.

All this nonsense about questioning the dating techniques is just noise. We can say with absolute certainty from multiple dating techniques the earth is billions, not thousands, of years old.
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Not true
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#81
#81
KB5252 said:
I don't read it in the same way many do. If we accept that a single being created everything then what would a day be to them? Would it be the blink of an eye to a human or the time it takes for a beam of light to travel from one side of the universe to the other? We simply don't know the answer to that question and cannot. The word day is just a man made term to explain the duration of some period of measurement.

Why would the term day absolutely without question have to refer to a 24 hour period as we know it today?

IMO this is where it gets petty on both sides.
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i agree with you, but even if day means 100,000 years the timing listed in the bible still doesn't jive with real evidence.
 
#83
#83
Orangekush423 said:
I find it hard to believe that someone can tell the difference between 278 million years old and 581 million yrs old. I mean cmon now?
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Take some geology classes or read some geology books and see why they think they can. They make a really good case. There is one by a guy that was at UT that is a good starter on geology:

Amazon.com: A Geologic Trip Across Tennessee by Interstate 40 (Outdoor Tennessee) (9780870498329): Harry L. Moore: Books
 
#84
#84
droski said:
every civilization in the history of mankind thought that they were clearly degrading overall. every generation thinks the new generation is going to ruin the world. still hasn't happened yet. it's human nature to assume the worst. i see no evidence we are any worse off then we were 100 years ago. quite the contrary.
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Considering that every known civilization peaked and waned after a period of time then it would tend to support the claim that some of those generations were making wouldn't it?

The problem with the one we have today is we are so intertwined, it is very likely that when things go south with this civilization it would all fall like a house of cards, it certainly is possible.
 
#85
#85
Orangekush423 said:
I find it hard to believe that someone can tell the difference between 278 million years old and 581 million yrs old. I mean cmon now?
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i'm not trying to be an arse, but have you actually looked into how they calculate this and why they feel they have a relative amount of certainty? this strikes me as "i don't understand how it works, so it must be magic" logic.
 
#86
#86
droski said:
i agree with you, but even if day means 100,000 years the timing listed in the bible still doesn't jive with real evidence.
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Why not? You are still trying to label a day as a certain period of time, the first step in creation could have taken billions of years, the second millions of years and so on. The term doesn't require an even number to be applied equally to each period.
 
#90
#90
droski said:
it doesn't?
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If we accept that the term day is simply noting a period of time (beyond todays understanding of the word) then it could mean any period of time.

The first step in creation might have taken 2.228 Billion years

The second step 338.78 Million years

The third 50.489 Billion and so on.

What I mean is the term day as it is used in the Bible could possibly mean an extended period of time not even among the separate steps of creation as explained in the Bible. Hope I am making sense.
 
#91
#91
droski said:
it matters because the bible says 10,000 years ago that god created everything in a week.
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But then it is written in the Bible; "To God one day can be as a thousand years and a thousand years can be as one day."

From the concept of eternity, with no beginning and no end, we are looking at time lines in a completely different manner.

Just for kicks, google up some of those historical Biblical inaccuracies you mentioned, specifically??
 
#92
#92
Okay, so what do all you Bible scholars and others think of the notion, presented in the original post, that the fall of man as depicted in Genesis might actually be man's decision to build and live in civilization rather than in nature/The Garden?
 
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#95
#95
gsvol said:
But then it is written in the Bible; "To God one day can be as a thousand years and a thousand years can be as one day."

From the concept of eternity, with no beginning and no end, we are looking at time lines in a completely different manner.

Just for kicks, google up some of those historical Biblical inaccuracies you mentioned, specifically??
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Let me google that for you
 
#96
#96
jamesd1628 said:
Okay, so what do all you Bible scholars and others think of the notion, presented in the original post, that the fall of man as depicted in Genesis might actually be man's decision to build and live in civilization rather than in nature/Garden?
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Interesting to say the least, civilization has brought us great things, at the same time it can be argued that it is also responsible for equally horrible things and acts throughout history.

I would like to see that idea laid out in more detail before I could really comment on specifics though.
 
#97
#97
KB5252 said:
If we accept that the term day is simply noting a period of time (beyond todays understanding of the word) then it could mean any period of time.

The first step in creation might have taken 2.228 Billion years

The second step 338.78 Million years

The third 50.489 Billion and so on.

What I mean is the term day as it is used in the Bible could possibly mean an extended period of time not even among the separate steps of creation as explained in the Bible. Hope I am making sense.
Click to expand...

i understand the theory that day translated in hebrew doesn't neccasarily mean 24 hours. are you saying that it isn't fixed? i.e. i can say the first day blah blah blah, the second day blah blah blah. and the first day and second day aren't the same amount of time? that's not the way i understood it from my years of catholic school. :)
 
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#98
#98
KB5252 said:
I don't read it in the same way many do. If we accept that a single being created everything then what would a day be to them? Would it be the blink of an eye to a human or the time it takes for a beam of light to travel from one side of the universe to the other? We simply don't know the answer to that question and cannot. The word day is just a man made term to explain the duration of some period of measurement.

Why would the term day absolutely without question have to refer to a 24 hour period as we know it today?

IMO this is where it gets petty on both sides.
Click to expand...

Because, why would an omnipotent being capable of anything and outside of time say "day" unless he really meant "day"? What's the point of the ambiguity?

Why not say it took 7 steps to create the universe, each step taking x,y,z...etc long?

And for that matter, if he rested on the 7th "day", what did he do on the 8th, 9th, 10th, etc...?
 
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