Rep Massie posts gun photo

[hog88]

It's all about what constitutes an infringement - and who ultimately decides.

As you have proven, people like you should have no input on that decision.

 

[LouderVol]

Same back at you, buddy. As much as your party hates minorities and a woman's right to choose, you aren't changing anything either.

Funny that the ones pushing racist gun laws are suddenly worried about minorities and women defending themselves.

 

[DynaLo]

So has it been conclusively determined that the tweet in question was in fact hand loaded and not an automated tweet that loaded on a previously set date and time?

I don’t even have Twitter but even I know you can set up the posting of tweets in advance.

 

[Rickyvol77]

clearly you see the problem with this characterization - you confuse "what I want" with rational/reasonable.

as evidence they idea of relabeling semi-automatic to some as of yet undefined rate of fire metric - plenty of counter arguments have been presented to you to show why that is neither reasonable nor rational yet you persist in believing it is.

He won’t admit that his nutty idea of “reasonable and rational” is dumb and not even realistic

 

[kiddiedoc]

Have y'all settled the debate on how quickly I am allowed to pull my finger?

 

[hog88]

Have y'all settled the debate on how quickly I am allowed to pull my finger?

That is limited by how quickly the gas builds up.

 

[Orangeslice13]

That is limited by how quickly the gas builds up.

Beat me too it

 

[LouderVol]

I would actually again say the opposite. Pulling the gun actually heightens the threat and is more likely to result in the attacker shooting you. That logic always seems to be missed on this board.

Stats?

 

[McDad]

clearly you see the problem with this characterization - you confuse "what I want" with rational/reasonable.

as evidence they idea of relabeling semi-automatic to some as of yet undefined rate of fire metric - plenty of counter arguments have been presented to you to show why that is neither reasonable nor rational yet you persist in believing it is.

This is the post, Luther. Read it as many times as necessary. Recite it to yourself in the mirror.

 

[McDad]

Stats?

He bets you voted to secede from the union.

 

[LouderVol]

Why do you have the edge if the other person has a gun as well? Damn, you people are freaking gun crazy on here. You act like you can't leave your house without getting mugged, raped, or robbed. I've never once felt the need to carry a gun to feel safe. Not once.

And some people have been mugged, raped, or robbed. Some have been in positions where they did need a gun to be safe. I guess they should just suck it up?

 

[LouderVol]

Exactly. I lived in Memphis for 3.5 years and never once felt the need to carry a gun. Most of the people on here would only go through Atlanta or Memphis if they were carrying a rocket launcher and machine gun.

When was the last time you road public transportation?

 

[LouderVol]

If she knows what she's doing then karate can be used a lot more effectively and quickly than fumbling around in a purse for a gun.

Why is she carrying it in her purse? Cause she's a woman? Look at the sexism on this guy.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

Have y'all settled the debate on how quickly I am allowed to pull my finger?

That is a question better answered by a woman.

 

[hndog609]

There has been a lot of mayhem since last night and I'm not going to try and address all of it so here's a few observations.

Self-defense is layered, like an onion or a parfait or an ogre. The absolute first best thing to have is the mindset. If you're wandering around in Condition White (to use Col Cooper nomenclature) and blissfully unaware of your surroundings you will not only be less likely to defend yourself effectively but will actually draw attention for being an easier mark in the first place. For instance a female walking through a parking garage head down watching a tik-tok video is basically going to be perceived as a prey animal.

Any halfway decent instruction in physical defense is a good thing. Whatever particular discipline one may consider superior even the "lesser" ones are better than none at all. Now having said that even high level hand to hand training has limitations. If facing an individual of roughly the same physical ability it's a decided advantage. If facing a physical superior it can at least level the field a bit and often catches people off guard. If facing someone with weapons or multiple assailants you're in trouble, particularly if the opposition also has any idea what they're doing. (Why do so many people assume the "other guy" will be a clueless pansy?) I always find it amusing when people with a certain bias come up with essentially some variant of "I'll just whip dey ass!". It's naive as hell.

Introducing weapons into the mix gets complicated quickly. Common are things like knives, pepper spray, stun guns, various impact weapons and firearms. All can be useful at various times for various usage. (An obvious one being some places prohibit carrying of some of them) As alluded to above with martial arts training a "weapon" is not some magic talisman that wards off evil. They are inanimate tools that can expand one's effective use of force in a defense scenario. Likelihood of success is greatly increased with familiarity and proficiency. Firearms get the most notice because, quite simply, a personal firearm is the most efficacious option available to project force or the threat of force. It is in fact a force multiplier that can make even the tiniest of cheerleader flyers into someone capable of putting down or send scurrying multiple would be assailants that would otherwise be able to subdue even a large and trained but unarmed man. Better still while the more trained the better the learning curve is a hell of a lot less than other disciplines to become functionally proficient AND the deterrence factor is much, much greater. Far more often than not having a firearm brought into play makes pressing anything less than the most determined attack not worth the risk.

The loss of nuance is one of the dumbest (and most common) aspects of these types of discussions. Someone carrying the best of handguns should also be of a situationally aware mindset, have at least a rudimentary understanding of hand fighting (even if only to create space and allow for firearm access) and be learned in the use of that firearm. Anyone that just says "I know karate!" (or whatever) and thinks it's all good is just as delusional about their safety as someone that says "I've got a knife/collapsible baton/gun/whatever!" and thinks it's all good. The real world is too unpredictable to think that way. You absolutely are not "safe". You can be more safe by manipulating what is under your control to your advantage. That's as good as you're going to get.

As an aside the funniest thing brought up in any of these things is when somebody declares any variation of "I've never felt the need for X." I wonder how many people have ever been assaulted/carjacked/raped/murdered/whatever and left their home that morning expecting that to be the case? The world doesn't give a tinker's damn about how you "feel". This doesn't have to be self-defense related. Not checked the pressure on your spare lately? Sucks you didn't "feel" like you might really have a flat. Not had your fire extinguisher charge checked? Sucks if you didn't "feel" that to be anything to really worry about. (we could do this all day) In the end self-defense is exactly as it reads...defense of self. How much or little one cares to put into it is up to the practitioner. The only truly bad people in the mix are those that deign themselves worthy of limiting the ability of others to do so.

 

[Rickyvol77]

There has been a lot of mayhem since last night and I'm not going to try and address all of it so here's a few observations.

Self-defense is layered, like an onion or a parfait or an ogre. The absolute first best thing to have is the mindset. If you're wandering around in Condition White (to use Col Cooper nomenclature) and blissfully unaware of your surroundings you will not only be less likely to defend yourself effectively but will actually draw attention for being an easier mark in the first place. For instance a female walking through a parking garage head down watching a tik-tok video is basically going to be perceived as a prey animal.

Any halfway decent instruction in physical defense is a good thing. Whatever particular discipline one may consider superior even the "lesser" ones are better than none at all. Now having said that even high level hand to hand training has limitations. If facing an individual of roughly the same physical ability it's a decided advantage. If facing a physical superior it can at least level the field a bit and often catches people off guard. If facing someone with weapons or multiple assailants you're in trouble, particularly if the opposition also has any idea what they're doing. (Why do so many people assume the "other guy" will be a clueless pansy?) I always find it amusing when people with a certain bias come up with essentially some variant of "I'll just whip dey ass!". It's naive as hell.

Introducing weapons into the mix gets complicated quickly. Common are things like knives, pepper spray, stun guns, various impact weapons and firearms. All can be useful at various times for various usage. (An obvious one being some places prohibit carrying of some of them) As alluded to above with martial arts training a "weapon" is not some magic talisman that wards off evil. They are inanimate tools that can expand one's effective use of force in a defense scenario. Likelihood of success is greatly increased with familiarity and proficiency. Firearms get the most notice because, quite simply, a personal firearm is the most efficacious option available to project force or the threat of force. It is in fact a force multiplier that can make even the tiniest of cheerleader flyers into someone capable of putting down or send scurrying multiple would be assailants that would otherwise be able to subdue even a large and trained but unarmed man. Better still while the more trained the better the learning curve is a hell of a lot less than other disciplines to become functionally proficient AND the deterrence factor is much, much greater. Far more often than not having a firearm brought into play makes pressing anything less than the most determined attack not worth the risk.

The loss of nuance is one of the dumbest (and most common) aspects of these types of discussions. Someone carrying the best of handguns should also be of a situationally aware mindset, have at least a rudimentary understanding of hand fighting (even if only to create space and allow for firearm access) and be learned in the use of that firearm. Anyone that just says "I know karate!" (or whatever) and thinks it's all good is just as delusional about their safety as someone that says "I've got a knife/collapsible baton/gun/whatever!" and thinks it's all good. The real world is too unpredictable to think that way. You absolutely are not "safe". You can be more safe by manipulating what is under your control to your advantage. That's as good as you're going to get.

As an aside the funniest thing brought up in any of these things is when somebody declares any variation of "I've never felt the need for X." I wonder how many people have ever been assaulted/carjacked/raped/murdered/whatever and left their home that morning expecting that to be the case? The world doesn't give a tinker's damn about how you "feel". This doesn't have to be self-defense related. Not checked the pressure on your spare lately? Sucks you didn't "feel" like you might really have a flat. Not had your fire extinguisher charge checked? Sucks if you didn't "feel" that to be anything to really worry about. (we could do this all day) In the end self-defense is exactly as it reads...defense of self. How much or little one cares to put into it is up to the practitioner. The only truly bad people in the mix are those that deign themselves worthy of limiting the ability of others to do so.

Good post and the sooner these goofballs realize that their feelings and needs and wants don’t matter to anyone but themselves and are inconsequential in the real world, the better. Especially with actual real life situations to which they are mindblowingly ignorant to

 

[luthervol]

clearly you see the problem with this characterization - you confuse "what I want" with rational/reasonable.

as evidence they idea of relabeling semi-automatic to some as of yet undefined rate of fire metric - plenty of counter arguments have been presented to you to show why that is neither reasonable nor rational yet you persist in believing it is.

There really hasn't been one decent counter argument. I even stated the question again and got zero responses. I'll try and go back and find it.

 

[hog88]

There really hasn't been one decent counter argument. I even stated the question again and got zero responses. I'll try and go back and find it.

It’s hard to counter absurdity.

 

[luthervol]

clearly you see the problem with this characterization - you confuse "what I want" with rational/reasonable.

as evidence they idea of relabeling semi-automatic to some as of yet undefined rate of fire metric - plenty of counter arguments have been presented to you to show why that is neither reasonable nor rational yet you persist in believing it is.

That still doesn't answer my question.
Let's take me for this example.
I have zero experience with hand guns.
If you gave me 3 different types of handguns and told me to get off as many shots as possible in 3 seconds, would I get different results on the 3 guns?
Would an expert get different results on the 3 guns?
I fully acknowledge that my results and the expert's results would be vastly different on all 3. That's not the question.

This is the question.
Someone said something completely absurd last night.....like all golf clubs are different even if they are the exact same type.
If that's what you call a counter argument, we must use vastly different criteria.

 

[luthervol]

It’s hard to counter absurdity.

Don't I know it. I've been attempting for 5 years now.

 

[hog88]

Don't I know it. I've been attempting for 5 years now.

Suffering from multiple personalities?

 

[luthervol]

Suffering from multiple personalities?

Hang on, let me ask.

 

[LouderVol]

That's so 19th century. Mini nukes for all, then we will be truly equal.

Ah the Church of Atom has a new follower. May the Division take you.

 

[LouderVol]

That still doesn't answer my question.
Let's take me for this example.
I have zero experience with hand guns.
If you gave me 3 different types of handguns and told me to get off as many shots as possible in 3 seconds, would I get different results on the 3 guns?
Would an expert get different results on the 3 guns?
I fully acknowledge that my results and the expert's results would be vastly different on all 3. That's not the question.

I would think yes, you would get different results. And I could see it being fairly noticable, 25%, for you. An expert is going to have a much tighter grouping than you would probably a 5% difference.

And this doesnt even cover bhams or 8188 points about effective bullets down range vs just bullets down range.

 

[Orangeslice13]

This is the question.
Someone said something completely absurd last night.....like all golf clubs are different even if they are the exact same type.
If that's what you call a counter argument, we must use vastly different criteria.

They are different.
Calloway brings several that are the same to the fittings and let’s the pro figure out which one they want. These are clubs that were custom built for the pro to the exact same specs.
Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it not true.
Ask me how I know this.