Romney's VP pick

#326
#326
PKT_VOL said:
It's about image. It reflects poorly on his character to the average voter.
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and why is that? Does the "average voter" not try and take every deduction possible to limit their own tax liability? Isn't that the goal of most tax software out today?
 
#328
#328
utvolpj said:
the voters worried about Romney's tax returns were never voting for him anyway. Besides, it's not like many of them would understand anything past a 1040ez
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No but voters do care if he seems like a weasel. Not releasing his tax returns perpetuates that image. Obama knows it, Romney knows it. It makes the fact that he won't release his tax returns that much more intriguing.
 
#329
#329
PKT_VOL said:
It's about image. It reflects poorly on his character to the average voter.
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The average voter who actually pays taxes takes as many deductions as he possibly can. There is no one out there who wouldn't use every loophole available if it meant paying less to Uncle Sam.
 
#330
#330
utvolpj said:
and why is that? Does the "average voter" not try and take every deduction possible to limit their own tax liability? Isn't that the goal of most tax software out today?
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Some do, some don't. The rich do have an advantage in that area.

To a middle class voter or a voter who is struggling, it is dishearting to know that a multimillion dollar CEO is paying a tax rate lower than you.

Distrust is key here.
 
#331
#331
volinbham said:
It may reflect poorly to some, be irrelevant to others and be a sign of good financial management to yet others.

There is no average voter.
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You, pj, and others are no the average voter. The average voter is dumb and does not follow politics closely. Hence, why image is more important than policy.
 
#332
#332
PKT_VOL said:
Some do, some don't. The rich do have an advantage in that area.

To a middle class voter or a voter who is struggling, it is dishearting to know that a multimillion dollar CEO is paying a tax rate lower than you.

Distrust is key here.
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The reality is that such occurrences are the exception and not the rule. It is a media fantasy that the rich pay a lower tax rate. Even the guy on 60 minutes last night kept saying that was this case but it isn't true.
 
#334
#334
bamawriter said:
The average voter who actually pays taxes takes as many deductions as he possibly can. There is no one out there who wouldn't use every loophole available if it meant paying less to Uncle Sam.
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Umm...remind me buddy, just how many Amercans are paying net income taxes vs getting government aid in someway?
 
#335
#335
PKT_VOL said:
Some do, some don't. The rich do have an advantage in that area.

To a middle class voter or a voter who is struggling, it is dishearting to know that a multimillion dollar CEO is paying a tax rate lower than you.

Distrust is key here.
Click to expand...

I'm a middle class voter and couldn't care less as long as it's not illegal. I take every deduction I can even though I've figured out that some really aren't worth it if you make a decent living at all. The tax system in this country sucks. I believe every elected official should be forced to do their own taxes with a pencil and a calculator and any that mess up are out of a job. We might get some changes made in a hurry

we have a system where almost half of all "tax-eligible" Americans do not actually pay anything at the end of the year (and many get more back). How is Romney doing any better than that?
 
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#336
#336
Showing his returns would just give the left more ammo. He used the loopholes and took ever deduction possible i'm sure. No different than what any of the rest of us would have done. Romney's was just larger in scale. Last i heard that's not a crime.

The rich is evil class warfare stuff is just ridiculous. No one should have to pay you for your bad choices or your unwillingness to work. That message sucks. Obama's message sucks. He's awful for America. Better suited for Greece.
 
#337
#337
to the extent that the "average voter" cares about Romney's taxes, I find it hard to believe that such interest extends beyond (1) how much money Romney grosses and nets, and (2) whether he broke the law (e.g. tax evasion).

it appears that those clamoring loudest to see Romney's returns are more interested in the former, likely b/cit has the potential to incite jealousy in the "middle class" and dependent class.

if Obama and co. are really concerned about the latter, then they'd suggest E&Y (or some other independent auditor) review 10 years of returns. any laws broken? yes/no. move on.

moreover, given the apparent weaponization of the IRS to audit political enemies (see, Sheldon adelson), I find it telling that an "anonymous source" hasn't disclosed that government auditors have found an anomaly in Romney's returns.
 
#338
#338
milohimself said:
Still waiting on either side to give us "the debate we deserve"
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Well it wil actually occur but will be hidden somewhat by the petty attack ads.

The Ryan pick makes the ideological divide pretty clear and as a result I think we will have some of that debate though not in the manner which we desire.
 
#339
#339
PKT_VOL said:
Umm...remind me buddy, just how many Amercans are paying net income taxes vs getting government aid in someway?
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I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that the tax return issue is nothing but a "look-over-there!" tactic by Obama and Co. Everyone who pays taxes does what Romney does to one degree or another.
 
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#340
#340
volinbham said:
Well it wil actually occur but will be hidden somewhat by the petty attack ads.

The Ryan pick makes the ideological divide pretty clear and as a result I think we will have some of that debate though not in the manner which we desire.
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Not holding my breath

Was not impressed with any of the debate moderators for the GOPrimaries
 
#341
#341
volinbham said:
At the risk of talking about something more relevant than tax returns: I find it interesting that the R ticket contains no social conservatives. A move in the right direction IMHO.
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It is not at all "more relevant." In fact, under the current circumstances the relevance of lack of a social conservative is all but completely irrelevant.

Having said that, I agree, its nice to see him making the decision not to try to appeal strictly to the fundamentalists, anti-gay, anti-immigration, anti-whatever side of the party. Although I think Ryan would make a terrible president and stands for all of the wrong things, and is bit of a partisan long time Congressional insider, he's at least not some ditz they are hoping can get the soccer moms out.
 
#342
#342
lawgator1 said:
I don't know.

What I do know is that I care much more about whether Mitt Romney used tax dodges, legal or not, to insulate tens of millions of dollars of income, and putting someone like that in charge of the economy when taxation is a huge issue moving forward, versus what Obama got 25 years ago in English Lit.
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Sure you do.


















He's hiding something.
 
#343
#343
Bottom line is that public polling shows Obama's lead growing, to the 6-8 point margin, and leading in key electoral vote states. The internal polling, from what I have read, and for both sides, shows the reason is that Obama has successfully defined Romney as being unable to relate to problems of the middle class and those struggling. The disconnect is that he says he is running to improve the economy and fight for jobs, but the voters do not see him as understanding the problem a bad economy presents for them. Things like the tax return issue, and Romney's tax plan resulting in a tax break for the wealthiest, but higher taxes for the middle class, just serve to reinforce this perception.

Romney has chosen, via this pick, to double down on his strategy of being a fiscal conservative and controlling the budget deficit. But in doing so he has firmly hitched his wagon to a current Congressional leadership that enjoys about the lowest favorability rating in history. And he has picked a guy who wants to end the Medicare program as we know it, and replace it with vouchers, which may or may not cover the cost of buying insurance by that point in time.

I just don't see a game plan where this works out for Team Romney. Its more of the same that has been a drag since the beginning of the summer.
 
#344
#344
lawgator1 said:
Bottom line is that public polling shows Obama's lead growing, to the 6-8 point margin, and leading in key electoral vote states. The internal polling, from what I have read, and for both sides, shows the reason is that Obama has successfully defined Romney as being unable to relate to problems of the middle class and those struggling. The disconnect is that he says he is running to improve the economy and fight for jobs, but the voters do not see him as understanding the problem a bad economy presents for them. Things like the tax return issue, and Romney's tax plan resulting in a tax break for the wealthiest, but higher taxes for the middle class, just serve to reinforce this perception.

Romney has chosen, via this pick, to double down on his strategy of being a fiscal conservative and controlling the budget deficit. But in doing so he has firmly hitched his wagon to a current Congressional leadership that enjoys about the lowest favorability rating in history. And he has picked a guy who wants to end the Medicare program as we know it, and replace it with vouchers, which may or may not cover the cost of buying insurance by that point in time.

I just don't see a game plan where this works out for Team Romney. Its more of the same that has been a drag since the beginning of the summer.
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An just what exactly is Obama doing to help the middle class? Providing them with the largest tax hike in American history? Obamacare? By taxing people for health care that couldn't afford it in the first place? Obama's plan is simply do nothing and let things get worse. All you hear out of him is women's rights and Romney's tax returns. Spreading the wealth around trash. He's a socialist POS that has enough skeleton's in his closet to get impeached. He's no leader, just a failure. A media made failure.
 
#345
#345
lawgator1 said:
Bottom line is that public polling shows Obama's lead growing, to the 6-8 point margin, and leading in key electoral vote states. The internal polling, from what I have read, and for both sides, shows the reason is that Obama has successfully defined Romney as being unable to relate to problems of the middle class and those struggling. The disconnect is that he says he is running to improve the economy and fight for jobs, but the voters do not see him as understanding the problem a bad economy presents for them. Things like the tax return issue, and Romney's tax plan resulting in a tax break for the wealthiest, but higher taxes for the middle class, just serve to reinforce this perception.

Romney has chosen, via this pick, to double down on his strategy of being a fiscal conservative and controlling the budget deficit. But in doing so he has firmly hitched his wagon to a current Congressional leadership that enjoys about the lowest favorability rating in history. And he has picked a guy who wants to end the Medicare program as we know it, and replace it with vouchers, which may or may not cover the cost of buying insurance by that point in time.

I just don't see a game plan where this works out for Team Romney. Its more of the same that has been a drag since the beginning of the summer.
Click to expand...

This post gives me hope given your record of predicting events and trends. Interestingly enough, the RCP average is actually coming back down and Obama is still hovering at 48%.
 
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#346
#346
A few of the Florida newspapers are saying that the Ryan pick could hurt Romney in Florida.
 
#350
#350
volinbham said:
I can see that - personally I think his plan is misunderstood but it's easy to fear monger.
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Yes, change scares people.

There is going to have to be change made.

The sad thing is changes in entitlements and taxes will be made in some form and Congress will spend the money supposedly saved on something else.

Congress is the problem, imo.
The POTUS can't do much without their approval.
 
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