Socialism Fails Everytime ...

[Vol8188]

Greed is not an aspect of capitalism...it is one of the primary human motivations, second only to the will to survive. Since the Garden of Eden, humans have wanted and will always want more and better things and experiences. It is humanity at its core.

Those who have morals balance their greed with generosity, altruism, and service for others. I think that is universally understood regardless of politics.

The insane problem with liberals is you folks want to remove the CHOICE of an individual to CHOOSE if, when, and how they give to others who have less. You want to use the goverment and their monopoly on violence and incarceration to FORCE others to give what they have acquired to YOU and your ilk...rather than let them decide if, when, and how to give from their rightfully acquired largesse.

It is theft. Plain and simple. You try to use the government to play Robinhood and steal from the rich, allegedly to "give to the poor"...which in practice just results in large portions of what was taken being pilfered by the self appointed "elites" among your liberal brethren. It is shameful, greedy, jealous, and morally reprehensible.

I would add a minor critique. I would frame it not as: Yes, greed is a primary human motivation, and capitalism is so successful because it uses that motivation for the benefit of all.

 

[hog88]

Greed is not an aspect of capitalism...it is one of the primary human motivations, second only to the will to survive. Since the Garden of Eden, humans have wanted and will always want more and better things and experiences. It is humanity at its core.

Those who have morals balance their greed with generosity, altruism, and service for others. I think that is universally understood regardless of politics.

The insane problem with liberals is you folks want to remove the CHOICE of an individual to CHOOSE if, when, and how they give to others who have less. You want to use the goverment and their monopoly on violence and incarceration to FORCE others to give what they have acquired to YOU and your ilk...rather than let them decide if, when, and how to give from their rightfully acquired largesse.

It is theft. Plain and simple. You try to use the government to play Robinhood and steal from the rich, allegedly to "give to the poor"...which in practice just results in large portions of what was taken being pilfered by the self appointed "elites" among your liberal brethren. It is shameful, greedy, jealous, and morally reprehensible.

Spot on.

 

[luthervol]

Yet it is not in the definition. You specifically accused me of not using the actual definition of greed, turns out you're the one not using the real definition.

Greed is amoral. You may commit both moral and immoral acts based on greed. The same way hunger is amoral, yet you may kill or rob over hunger.

Greed



Description
Greed is an uncontrolled longing for increase in the acquisition or use of material gain; or social value, such as status, or power. Greed has been identified as undesirable throughout known human history because it creates behavior-conflict between personal and social goals.

 

[hog88]

Greed



Description
Greed is an uncontrolled longing for increase in the acquisition or use of material gain; or social value, such as status, or power. Greed has been identified as undesirable throughout known human history because it creates behavior-conflict between personal and social goals.

Where are you getting that definition?

 

[Vol8188]

Greed
Description
Greed is an uncontrolled longing for increase in the acquisition or use of material gain; or social value, such as status, or power. Greed has been identified as undesirable throughout known human history because it creates behavior-conflict between personal and social goals.

Within the sentence that Wikipedia defined greed, notice there was still no moral component. The second sentence is merely talking about culture, not about the definition of greed. Yes, many cultures consider greed to be bad. That does not mean they are correct.

 

[Vol8188]

Where are you getting that definition?

Wikipedia.

Greed - Wikipedia

 

[luthervol]

This debate has done nothing if not prove my original point.
Our country has bastardized the concept of greed into being an admirable, or at least acceptable, quality.

There is no need to take the conversation further.

 

[McDad]

Those of you arguing with Luther know what a fool's errand that is. But I would like to lob a thought into the fray.

If greed exists, and If it can be evil or virtuous depending on intent, and if that intent is judged by those who develop the continuum, then would we not have to acknowledge greed exists in all economic and government systems. If true, do you want greed which improves the quality of life of others through voluntary behaviors, or do you want greed which improves the quality of life of others through forced behaviors?

 

[Vol8188]

Those of you arguing with Luther know what a fool's errand that is. But I would like to lob a thought into the fray.

If greed exists, and If it can be evil or virtuous depending on intent, and if that intent is judged by those who develop the continuum, then would we not have to acknowledge greed exists in all economic and government systems. If true, do you want greed which improves the quality of life of others through voluntary behaviors, or do you want greed which improves the quality of life of others through forced behaviors?

100%. That's what I was alluding to when I told Luther that socialist, marxists, communists, and capitalists are all driven by greed and when I stated "greed is a primary human motivation, and capitalism is so successful because it uses that motivation for the benefit of all."

 

[luthervol]

Biblical commentator John Ritenbaugh describes greed as a “ruthless self–seeking and an arrogant assumption that others and things exist for one's own benefit.”

Again, I'm not a religious person, but .......................

 

[EasternVol]

Started substantial logging around 1850 and by 1895 Vanderbilt owned 100k+ acres and was logging using the first forester Pinchot. A good book about some of this is ' Last Train to Elmont ' .
Also there are a few stands of virgin timber left in the GSMNP., Albright Grove is one and has virgin hardwoods.

There are some patches here and there outside the Smokies. Blanton Forest in Harlan is one.

 

[luthervol]

What Are the Seven Deadly Sins? A Biblical Guide

While many of us can name the seven deadly sins (pride, envy, wrath, gluttony, lust, sloth, and greed), we may not understand why they are considered deadly.

Again, I'm not a religious person but.................

 

[85SugarVol]

Wanting your family to have better opportunities is not in and of itself greed.

I don’t normally come outright and state that I disagree with you. It is often just implied

I disagree with you.

Your desire for “more” for your family. What exactly is that?

 

[luthervol]

I don’t normally come outright and state that I disagree with you. It is often just implied

I disagree with you.

Your desire for “more” for your family. What exactly is that?

Normal and healthy care and concern.

 

[hog88]

What Are the Seven Deadly Sins? A Biblical Guide

While many of us can name the seven deadly sins (pride, envy, wrath, gluttony, lust, sloth, and greed), we may not understand why they are considered deadly.

Again, I'm not a religious person but.................

If you are not religious why do you continue to use religion in your argument?

Also did you miss McDad's question?

 

[GroverCleveland]

Started substantial logging around 1850 and by 1895 Vanderbilt owned 100k+ acres and was logging using the first forester Pinchot. A good book about some of this is ' Last Train to Elmont ' .
Also there are a few stands of virgin timber left in the GSMNP., Albright Grove is one and has virgin hardwoods.

Did not know that. Have heard and read for years that Joyce Kilmer was it.

 

[85SugarVol]

Normal and healthy care and concern.

Oh I see.

From everything you share on here it sounds like your 2 daughters are off to wonderful starts to their new lives! (ATL & NYC right?)
Your posts beam with pride when you share about them.

All those years back, when you and your wife made the difficult family decision to move to a better school district for your daughters? How would you classify that?

 

[Vol8188]

Biblical commentator John Ritenbaugh describes greed as a “ruthless self–seeking and an arrogant assumption that others and things exist for one's own benefit.”

Again, I'm not a religious person, but .......................

Cool. So religions demonize both homosexuality and greed. You believe they're right about both?

Or perhaps the christian culture you've grown up in has influenced your views of both. In which case you should probably reconsider.

 

[McDad]

100%. That's what I was alluding to when I told Luther that socialist, marxists, communists, and capitalists are all driven by greed and when I stated "greed is a primary human motivation, and capitalism is so successful because it uses that motivation for the benefit of all."

The choice between freedom of association and association through force is something that I think everyone should agree on. Even the person who wants some degree of forced association, ONLY wants that applied for the things they support...they would never want forced association applied for things to which they object.

I also am a fan of capitalism in the macro and socialism in the micro. I consider that the best of both worlds. Freedom of opportunity which lifts everyone wanting to participate, and freedom to apply charity where I see fit.

 

[luthervol]

If you are not religious why do you continue to use religion in your argument?

Also did you miss McDad's question?

Because I know many of you guys are.....are the disconnect is astounding.

I did miss his question.

 

[luthervol]

Oh I see.

From everything you share on here it sounds like your 2 daughters are off to wonderful starts to their new lives! (ATL & NYC right?)
Your posts beam with pride when you share about them.

All those years back, when you and your wife made the difficult family decision to move to a better school district for your daughters? How would you classify that?

Normal and healthy care and concern.
And yes, thanks, they are both doing very well....and both doing well in jobs that provide social good (a must for them).

 

[hog88]

Normal and healthy care and concern.
And yes, thanks, they are both doing very well....and both doing well in jobs that provide social good (a must for them).

Yes you did.

Those of you arguing with Luther know what a fool's errand that is. But I would like to lob a thought into the fray.

If greed exists, and If it can be evil or virtuous depending on intent, and if that intent is judged by those who develop the continuum, then would we not have to acknowledge greed exists in all economic and government systems. If true, do you want greed which improves the quality of life of others through voluntary behaviors, or do you want greed which improves the quality of life of others through forced behaviors?

 

[GroverCleveland]

Webster’s dictionary of 1828:

Greedy, adjective, Latin gradior, and probably signifies reaching forward.

1. Having a keen appetite for food or drink; ravenous; voracious; very hungry; followed by of; as a lion that is greedy of his prey. Psalms 17:12

2. Having a keen desire of any thing; eager to obtain; as greedy of gain.

Language does change, but I wonder how much the change in the definition of greed has been guided by liberals?

 

[luthervol]

Yes you did.

lol.....
That question was not for me. He specifically and intentionally did not respond directly to me. If he has a question, he can ask.

 

[luthervol]

Webster’s dictionary of 1828:

Greedy, adjective, Latin gradior, and probably signifies reaching forward.

1. Having a keen appetite for food or drink; ravenous; voracious; very hungry; followed by of; as a lion that is greedy of his prey. Psalms 17:12

2. Having a keen desire of any thing; eager to obtain; as greedy of gain.

Language does change, but I wonder how much the change in the definition of greed has been guided by liberals?

Pretty much none.