Socialism Fails Everytime ...

[UT_Dutchman]

Look forward to seeing them.

True, but somewhat sad story. Ex wife had a great uncle who owned a stand of virgin cypress timber on the Cape Fear River. I had the opportunity to hunt in them. Had more money than one could shake a stick at and decided to sell the timber off. The knots that were left behind were unreal in size. Glad I got to see it before it was cut, but it was sad to see the aftermath.

I am taking a Conservation class at UT and was reading about the large cypress trees on our coastal plains, I would have never believed that they grew that large.

 

[LouderVol]

How are tax revenues dependent upon socialist programs?

As they work in our country with income tax as set, audited, and collected by a centralized authoirty. It also relies on the rich paying their "fair" share to cover for the rest of us poor people.

 

[McDad]

Perhaps. It would be interesting to see how the definition has changed through the years.

Agreed.

 

[GroverCleveland]

As they work in our country with income tax as set, audited, and collected by a centralized authoirty. It also relies on the rich paying their "fair" share to cover for the rest of us poor people.

Okay, I see the inference in terms of an overall socialistic system.

My initial reaction was based on taxes are not dependent on things like Social Security, SNAP, and the like. After all, with the exception of the War Between the States and WWI, the Federal government for the most part ran on excise taxes, tariffs and import duties before implementing a full time income tax.

 

[McDad]

From an earlier post by Luther:
A CEO is supposed to work for a reasonable profit. It becomes greed when the desire for increased profit causes him to make decisions detrimental (harmful) to society, customers, employees.

I wonder how we would feel about our politicians if we applied the same standard to their greed. After all, greed had both wealth and power as part of its definition.
Increased taxes (revenue) is greedy.
Shutting down the economy was harmful to society.
Sub-market rate of return for retirement money required on wages is detrimental.
Using insider knowledge to trade stocks seems greedy.
Allowing witnesses the spotlight during Senate confirmations who lie to safeguard political power is greedy.
Demanding one group fund another group (specific welfare) is greedy.
In fact, any politician seeking power is greedy.

I bet ole Bernie Sanders would be shocked to learn he is the very thing he despises.

 

[luthervol]

From an earlier post by Luther:
A CEO is supposed to work for a reasonable profit. It becomes greed when the desire for increased profit causes him to make decisions detrimental (harmful) to society, customers, employees.

I wonder how we would feel about our politicians if we applied the same standard to their greed. After all, greed had both wealth and power as part of its definition.
Increased taxes (revenue) is greedy.
Shutting down the economy was harmful to society.
Sub-market rate of return for retirement money required on wages is detrimental.
Using insider knowledge to trade stocks seems greedy.
Allowing witnesses the spotlight during Senate confirmations who lie to safeguard political power is greedy.
Demanding one group fund another group (specific welfare) is greedy.
In fact, any politician seeking power is greedy.

I bet ole Bernie Sanders would be shocked to learn he is the very thing he despises.

A lot of our politicians suck and many are driven almost solely by greed - a horrible driving force.
Any of their decisions based on a “ruthless self–seeking and an arrogant assumption that others and things exist for one's own benefit.” or "a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (such as money or power)", is likely a harmful decision to others and society as a whole; but even if not, it is a decision being made for the wrong reasons.

Our government would be much better off if the amount of greed was reduced. The same with our economy and life in general.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Borderline. They should have been looking for other crops to grow in the future.
Feeding your family by knowingly harming others is greedy.

Tobacco use is a choice. Just like eating foods with hydrogenated oils or high fructose corn syrup. Both bring pleasure to the consumer. Tobacco farmers have nothing to be ashamed of imo.

 

[OrangeTsar]

And under socialism, 99.8% of the population DOES in fact achieve equality. Unfortunately they all end up dirt poor and shoveling you know what

 

[luthervol]

Tobacco use is a choice. Just like eating foods with hydrogenated oils or high fructose corn syrup. Both bring pleasure to the consumer. Tobacco farmers have nothing to be ashamed of imo.

I disagree.......

• Tobacco product use is started and established primarily during adolescence.1,2
• Nearly 9 out of 10 adults who smoke cigarettes daily first try smoking by age 18, and 99% first try smoking by age 26.2

But I would also think that anyone who knowingly makes and markets unhealthy/harmful foods and drinks to anyone, especially children, should maybe rethink their career choices.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I disagree.......

• Tobacco product use is started and established primarily during adolescence.1,2
• Nearly 9 out of 10 adults who smoke cigarettes daily first try smoking by age 18, and 99% first try smoking by age 26.2

But I would also think that anyone who knowingly makes and markets unhealthy/harmful foods and drinks to anyone, especially children, should maybe rethink their career choices.

No way Guther!

 

[C-south]

I disagree.......

• Tobacco product use is started and established primarily during adolescence.1,2
• Nearly 9 out of 10 adults who smoke cigarettes daily first try smoking by age 18, and 99% first try smoking by age 26.2

But I would also think that anyone who knowingly makes and markets unhealthy/harmful foods and drinks to anyone, especially children, should maybe rethink their career choices.

What about a person who “teaches” certain kids they’re inherently racist/privileged and others they’re inherently a victim for life?

 

[Orangeburst]

We have gone from helping hand in time of need..to a lifestyle.

 

[Wireless1]

typo. I meant less expensive.

Freudian

 

[AM64]

It is. It's all about the desire for something more/better than what you currently have. There is no moral component like you're attempting to add.

View attachment 537772

It seems like religion or religious teachings have a lot to do with all this - the seven deadly sins kind of thing. Incentive and greed are basically the same thing. Each "sin" has a counterpart that only a fool would see as a sin. For example "pride". Pride can be nothing more than feeling satisfaction over something done well or it could presumably be an excessive behavior having little to do with sense of real accomplishment. Who is the arbiter; who gets to decide whether "too much accomplishment" was the result of "too much incentive"? If there were no incentive, there would likely be no achievement. Without achievement man would be no better than any other animal. It would seem that without the desire for achievement whether defined as incentive or greed then all mankind would be guilty of sloth. Obviously incentive/greed somewhat balances sloth/measured response.

My comment regarding the religious aspects of this argument is influenced heavily by a couple of series of books I've been reading that bring into focus the stupidity that catholicism brought to the world around the time of the collapse of the Roman Empire. It was born of the quest for power - something that the church (at least the men who decided they were the church) sought to take from the common man; obviously by dictating terms like greed, sloth, pride, etc, church officials held power over the common man by deciding whether they were guilty of sins. I'd tend the say the greatest sin might well be that of one person feeling the right to judge another.

 

[AM64]

Where are you getting that definition?

Marx's "Rules of Etiquette in a Controlled Society" ... probably plagiarized from Saint Somebody or Other. Control the definitions and context of human behavior, and you control civilization. It's an especially useful technique when defining right and wrong is also a means for accumulating or manipulating wealth.

 

[AM64]

Biblical commentator John Ritenbaugh describes greed as a “ruthless self–seeking and an arrogant assumption that others and things exist for one's own benefit.”

Again, I'm not a religious person, but .......................

Well, there you go. Without greed or lust for power, religions themselves wouldn't be attempting to define lust, greed, etc for others. We probably can pretty much agree on some hardcore topics like murder, theft, and other forms of real abuse. There's money to be made and power to be had by controlling the point at which incentive/motivation/greed or sense of accomplishment/pride or rest/inaction while evaluating/sloth move from the "good" to the "bad" part of the continuum.

 

[AM64]

I don’t normally come outright and state that I disagree with you. It is often just implied

I disagree with you.

Your desire for “more” for your family. What exactly is that?

It is hard to hit a moving target.

 

[luthervol]

It is hard to hit a moving target.

That's because few thing are black and white. A bunch of you guys tend to try and see everything as black or white, in two-dimensions.
I realized early on in the political form the concept of continuums needed to be driven home.....because therein lies most everything.

It's like this, is it wrong for an older guy to have sexual relations with a younger woman?
65 and 50?
50 and 40?
40 and 30?
30 and 20?
30 and 18?
30 and 15?
18 and 17?
18 and 16?
18 and 14?
14 and 13?
14 and 12?
It's not wrong until it is, and the gap between right and wrong is full of shades of grey.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

A lot of our politicians suck and many are driven almost solely by greed - a horrible driving force.
Any of their decisions based on a “ruthless self–seeking and an arrogant assumption that others and things exist for one's own benefit.” or "a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (such as money or power)", is likely a harmful decision to others and society as a whole; but even if not, it is a decision being made for the wrong reasons.
Our government would be much better off if the amount of greed was reduced. The same with our economy and life in general.

You can't reduce greed. If a society has the will, they can starve it by denying elitism and class privilege. But it will just hibernate, awaiting circumstances favoring its return. And humans will always create/accept opportunities to satisfy their Jerry McGuire trait. We have a collective tendency of no matter how much we got, we always want more. Greed, you see, is the central column of capitalism. It refuses to be reduced. To get rid of it, you have to kill it. But the dastardly thing about greed is, it resurrects itself.

 

[luthervol]

You can't reduce greed. If a society has the will, they can starve it by denying elitism and class privilege. But it will just hibernate, awaiting circumstances favoring its return. And humans will always create/accept opportunities to satisfy their Jerry McGuire trait. We have a collective tendency of no matter how much we got, we always want more. Greed, you see, is the central column of capitalism. It refuses to be reduced. To get rid of it, you have to kill it. But the dastardly thing about greed is, it resurrects itself.

We need to return to a culture that teaches that it is bad and not something that is appropriate and even beneficial.
You can't eliminate it but you can certainly reduce it.......and increase the scorn with which the greedy are viewed.
And certainly never admired.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

We need to return to a culture that teaches that it is bad and not something that is appropriate and even beneficial.
You can't eliminate it but you can certainly reduce it.......and increase the scorn with which the greedy are viewed.
And certainly never admired.

I'm 100% not against trying. The problem with hoo-mons is the getting it to happen. What you suggest makes perfect sense, people are simply not going to do it. Even if they did, well, 2 Peter 2:22

 

[Vol8188]

We need to return to a culture that teaches that it is bad and not something that is appropriate and even beneficial.
You can't eliminate it but you can certainly reduce it.......and increase the scorn with which the greedy are viewed.
And certainly never admired.

The greed of others is the reason you live the privileged life you do. Yes, it’s very beneficial

 

[whodeycin85]

N/m

 

[Jxn Vol]

That's because few thing are black and white. A bunch of you guys tend to try and see everything as black or white, in two-dimensions.
I realized early on in the political form the concept of continuums needed to be driven home.....because therein lies most everything.

It's like this, is it wrong for an older guy to have sexual relations with a younger woman?
65 and 50?
50 and 40?
40 and 30?
30 and 20?
30 and 18?
30 and 15?
18 and 17?
18 and 16?
18 and 14?
14 and 13?
14 and 12?
It's not wrong until it is, and the gap between right and wrong is full of shades of grey.

What about showering with your daughter like Joe did?

 

[luthervol]

I'm 100% not against trying. The problem with hoo-mons is the getting it to happen. What you suggest makes perfect sense, people are simply not going to do it. Even if they did, well, 2 Peter 2:22

Cultural shifts in how a trait is viewed is difficult but also is constantly happening. I've seen a change in many views in my lifetime, including greed. Forty years ago greed had a much greater negative connotation.