Still have faith in Cuonzo Martin?

#126
#126
mcdoug said:
:) I know, it's really kinda funny. All the naysayers insist it's not a BP vs CM thing but that's exactly what it is. If CCM had followed almost any other coach in TN history very few would be complaining right now. :crazy:
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Uhh. I think if previous coach made the tourney every year, and subsequent coach has yet to make the tournament once...Yeah.

Doesn't matter who it is or what their name is. CM better make the dance, or he'll be looking for a job this time next year. Simple as that.
 
#130
#130
If he sneaks in next year it will be at least two more seasons after that before we can get rid of him. The only thing that will get the administrations attention is if ticket sales drop and the six dollar boxes of popcorn stop selling.
 
#132
#132
calban said:
Godawful is harsh.
I'd accept inexperienced.
Maymon, McRae and Golden as a 2 would be a pretty productive line up. Martin's decision to keep Golden at PG and not recruit the position was his OWN and most damaging mistake.
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They were picked 11th of 12 SEC teams for a reason.
 
#133
#133
knowthevols said:
If he sneaks in next year it will be at least two more seasons after that before we can get rid of him. The only thing that will get the administrations attention is if ticket sales drop and the six dollar boxes of popcorn stop selling.
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And if the team is headed to the dance ticket sales will increase not decrease...sorry.
 
#136
#136
VolGee4 said:
If you think motivation is the problem, then we are not watching the same team. It is clear the effort is there. It is all about execution, especially on the offensive end. If we play at least average offense in two games, then we make the dance. He has to get us playing better earlier in the season.
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I agree with the effort. It's always there. But playing hard and without strategy isn't a winning combo. Zo's philosophy seems to be "play hard". That doesn't cover up for lack of strategy...both offensively and defensively.

To answer the OP's question, yes I do think we'll make the tourney. I don't think we'll be a top 4 seed like we should be. Probably somewhere around an 8 seed. But as others have said, '14 has me very, very concerned.
 
#137
#137
I've lost My faith in CM. I think Tennessee will be looking for a new Men's basketball head coach sooner rather than later
 
#138
#138
whobethis16 said:
It doesn't help that most of the players Martin inherited weren't recruited to play his style, ie defense. People look at offensive stats and stars only. Martin has that set style and stays with it.
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This is the biggest fallacy going on around the UT basketball program. The idea that Martin is a defensive coach, or at least a good defensive coach, is ridiculous. His teams, since he's been a head coach, have consistently ranked in the bottom half of the NCAA statistical categories. This is not something that can be argued. Points per game is not a proper metric for defensive play. FG% defense, turnovers forced, points per possession...those are all much better metrics.

Our team's FG% defense was actually decent this year. Around 110th out of 345 teams. Not bad. Around 66th percentile. But we were 341st in steals this year. You can live with 66th percentile (although it's far from very good) if you cause turnovers. We were 341st!.

So, please, tell me again what Martin's style is. :banghead2:
 
#141
#141
NYC Vol said:
This is the biggest fallacy going on around the UT basketball program. The idea that Martin is a defensive coach, or at least a good defensive coach, is ridiculous. His teams, since he's been a head coach, have consistently ranked in the bottom half of the NCAA statistical categories. This is not something that can be argued. Points per game is not a proper metric for defensive play. FG% defense, turnovers forced, points per possession...those are all much better metrics.

Our team's FG% defense was actually decent this year. Around 110th out of 345 teams. Not bad. Around 66th percentile. But we were 341st in steals this year. You can live with 66th percentile (although it's far from very good) if you cause turnovers. We were 341st!.

So, please, tell me again what Martin's style is. :banghead2:
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That could, yet again, be related to execution (or lack thereof) on the part of the players, but no, you expect Martin to go out there and suit up and get 5 steals a game for his players. Yes, those numbers aren't great, but there are a number of things that could attribute to that, ie players not being recruited to play that way, like I said, players not executing like they're supposed to, for your argument, the coach not being defensive minded. As of now, I'll hold off on that one due to the type of players he has had so far, but if those numbers don't improve this year, I'll agree with your assessment, even though it is based on your not liking Martin more than just analyzing.
 
#142
#142
FTCvol said:
Uhh. I think if previous coach made the tourney every year, and subsequent coach has yet to make the tournament once...Yeah.

Doesn't matter who it is or what their name is. CM better make the dance, or he'll be looking for a job this time next year. Simple as that.
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Then they can't get mad when the NCAA violations, the show cause penalty, etc are brought up. If the dance is going to be compared Martin to Pearl, everything else can be compared as well.
 
#145
#145
whobethis16 said:
That could, yet again, be related to execution (or lack thereof) on the part of the players, but no, you expect Martin to go out there and suit up and get 5 steals a game for his players. Yes, those numbers aren't great, but there are a number of things that could attribute to that, ie players not being recruited to play that way, like I said, players not executing like they're supposed to, for your argument, the coach not being defensive minded. As of now, I'll hold off on that one due to the type of players he has had so far, but if those numbers don't improve this year, I'll agree with your assessment, even though it is based on your not liking Martin more than just analyzing.
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If you watch our defense, the players are coached to stay in front of their man at all times. They are not taught to get out in passing lanes and create steals. They do not try to create steals off inbound passes. There is no full court press. Or defense does not trap. The defense that CCM runs is not prone to create steals at all, but more like a prevent defense in football.
 
#146
#146
whobethis16 said:
I'll agree with your assessment, even though it is based on your not liking Martin more than just analyzing.
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I like Martin a lot. I think he's a very good guy. I just don't think he's a good coach. I wish he was because he would be a great representative of UT.

As for the defensive execution, Martin's strategy has been clear since he's been a HC. He wants his guys playing defensive position and not gambling on steals. It was that way at Missouri St and it's that way at UT. Either that or it's a huge coincidence that he's had the same kind of players that don't fit his system for 5 years.

If that's his system, that's fine. That works for some coaches. But that doesn't mean we have played good defense. Some people look at points per game and just assume we're playing good defense...which is far from the case. Slow tempo doesn't mean we're playing good defense. Our fundamentals are poor (on both ends) and the only thing we truly do pretty well is rebound, which is more a function of effort and determination than any other place on the court.

So again, my take on this has nothing to do with my personal feelings towards Zo. My feelings towards the UT hoops program come first and I see way too much evidence that he's not going to be our long term coach. I get that people want to believe he's our guy because he's our current coach. But I can't turn a blind eye towards what I see on and off the court.

And this has nothing to do with our previous coach. He's gone. Not coming back. But just because he's not coming back doesn't mean we can't have similar success. He may have been uniquely qualified to take over the program when he did and build it up but there are dozens of coaches out there that can take our program and do great things given many of the advantages we now have.
 
#147
#147
johnnybravo said:
If you watch our defense, the players are coached to stay in front of their man at all times. They are not taught to get out in passing lanes and create steals. They do not try to create steals off inbound passes. There is no full court press. Or defense does not trap. The defense that CCM runs is not prone to create steals at all, but more like a prevent defense in football.
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He supposedly plays the Tubby Smith style Ball Line defense which keeps the guys in front of you, don't give up lay ups or drives to the basket and wants them to attempt long jump shots at end of shot clock.
 
#148
#148
johnnybravo said:
If you watch our defense, the players are coached to stay in front of their man at all times. They are not taught to get out in passing lanes and create steals. They do not try to create steals off inbound passes. There is no full court press. Or defense does not trap. The defense that CCM runs is not prone to create steals at all, but more like a prevent defense in football.
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They did well enough to not give up a lot of assists, which means passing lanes were covered enough where teams could not pass in order to get those assists. They didn't get the steals, but were able to disrupt opponents' offensive schemes to not give up assists. While that means opponents were able to beat ours off the dribble (people complained about McBee and Golden, players who weren't Martin's recruits, for getting blown past), but couldn't run any offensive plays. That's not too bad. Get more guys like Richardson and everything else can improve. I'm curious as to how many shot clock violations Martin's teams have forced.
 
#149
#149
You poster's(like the one above) do understand that Tennessee's opponents had more assist, more blocks, more steals, less turnovers and shot a better 3pt and FT% right? Tennessee had a better FG% and more rebounds. That's it! Hell, Tennessee was lucky to win as many games as they did last year if you just go off season stats.
 
#150
#150
NYC Vol said:
I like Martin a lot. I think he's a very good guy. I just don't think he's a good coach. I wish he was because he would be a great representative of UT.

As for the defensive execution, Martin's strategy has been clear since he's been a HC. He wants his guys playing defensive position and not gambling on steals. It was that way at Missouri St and it's that way at UT. Either that or it's a huge coincidence that he's had the same kind of players that don't fit his system for 5 years.

If that's his system, that's fine. That works for some coaches. But that doesn't mean we have played good defense. Some people look at points per game and just assume we're playing good defense...which is far from the case. Slow tempo doesn't mean we're playing good defense. Our fundamentals are poor (on both ends) and the only thing we truly do pretty well is rebound, which is more a function of effort and determination than any other place on the court.

So again, my take on this has nothing to do with my personal feelings towards Zo. My feelings towards the UT hoops program come first and I see way too much evidence that he's not going to be our long term coach. I get that people want to believe he's our guy because he's our current coach. But I can't turn a blind eye towards what I see on and off the court.

And this has nothing to do with our previous coach. He's gone. Not coming back. But just because he's not coming back doesn't mean we can't have similar success. He may have been uniquely qualified to take over the program when he did and build it up but there are dozens of coaches out there that can take our program and do great things given many of the advantages we now have.
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Stokes offensive rebounding has really picked up since he figured out that was the only way he's going to get the ball.
Don't believe me, check his game by game.
 
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