whodeycin85
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2009
- Messages
- 9,297
- Likes
- 10,088
Amen to all of this. Well said.I think the Convention chose the words carefully. Jefferson was often an out-tier at times but is cited today because he most fits with the progressive agenda (even then, they cite him out of context 70-80% of the time). Keep in mind that Jefferson was the only Cabinet member that George Washington had to fire. George Washington held the most respect/sway of any Founding Father at the time but is rarely quoted today.
Go read the letter from Jefferson that has the phrase (I doubt you have ever read it). My biggest issue with most modern Americans is they shout opinions without actually doing the research on the subject matter.
The key issue is that the local governments were supposed to manage these items, not Washington D.C. Now the 14th Amendment changed that to a degree and it was partially built out of the fact that local governments often served as means to oppress individuals they didn't like.
The fact is that no one had any issues with religion in schools until the 1960s when the Supreme Court, basically, made up law. There is a reason the current Supreme Court is moving away from a lot of their rulings. They were problematic from the start.
I think our government is a total mess because we didn't follow the original intent which was to let local governments decide this issue. IMO, the issue of whether the Ten Commandments should be in school or not should be decided by local School Boards, not State Legislatures or Congress.
As Americans, if we want true freedom (as was intended), we should push for less Government Control at the Federal and even State levels and push for more control in our Counties and Cities. We can meet these people (often face-to-face), post on their Facebook pages, etc. We have more management/control.
The Federal Government should be more about diplomacy, military, managing the post office (that is a Constitutional Power), interstate commerce (customs/immigration), and high-level management. Not controlling every aspect of our life.
But whose set of beliefs are chosen? Why must we share the same ones? For example, I find laws limiting consenting adults to be immoral. Can we make sure to include that one?In general, but thats kinda the point...the further from an organized set of moral beliefs the further we descend into chaosm
Atheists defining morality is fascinating to me. Is it acceptable to lie, cheat, steal, murder, commit adultery? Where do these values come from?
That's the question..what worked previously, may or may not work now...but you have nailed it...some believe murder and rape to moral..slavery is morally acceptable to some..so I would say we need to go back to formula so to speak and either redo the country or go back to the ideals that started us.But whose set of beliefs are chosen? Why must we share the same ones? For example, I find laws limiting consenting adults to be immoral. Can we make sure to include that one?
That's the problem tho...if I believe raping my wife is descent because in my beliefs I own herI don't believe that "morals" or as I like to call it "basic human decency" requires a belief in a higher power. It's learned through watching one's elders as you grow up
The 10C is really nothing but human decency, but comes from religion..if it is self defined, then what is the point? what defines basic human decency and where does it come from? No harm to others?I don't believe that "morals" or as I like to call it "basic human decency" requires a belief in a higher power. It's learned through watching one's elders as you grow up.
The 10C is really nothing but human decency, but comes from religion..if it is self defined, then what is the point? what defines basic human decency and where does it come from? No harm to others?
Really interesting concept.
That's the problem, your hoping they are exposed along the way...but until then?? And how often to humans gather with those that they don't have things in common with...think about slavery and Africans...have had slaves forever..ever when exposed to the rest of the world where slavery was abolished...Hopefully those kids would be exposed to better adults along the way.
That's the problem, your hoping they are exposed along the way...but until then?? And how often to humans gather with those that they don't have things in common with...think about slavery and Africans...have had slaves forever..ever when exposed to the rest of the world where slavery was abolished...
I concur..but you still havent defined decency and where it comes from.
I agree..our conscience..like as toddlers, we did something wrong and know it without being told before. That does eliminate learning from others as a source.I don't know where it comes from. I tend to believe that little voice we all have that tells you "this is a bad idea" is our soul, voice of the creator or what have you. That it's in all of us and unless taught to ignore that most people are decent humans.
It all stems from human are inherently selfish...we are geneticly wired for self preservation at any cost unless trained (couldn't think of a better word) to think of other first...humans will always desire power..kids at a young age are selfish and taught to share. They always want power/control that what kids first instinct ilia to hit something when they don't get their way.I agree..our conscience..like as toddlers, we did something wrong and know it without being told before. That does eliminate learning from others as a source.
that is the Hobbes vs Rouseau debate.It all stems from human are inherently selfish...we are geneticly wired for self preservation at any cost unless trained (couldn't think of a better word) to think of other first...humans will always desire power..kids at a young age are selfish and taught to share. They always want power/control that what kids first instinct ilia to hit something when they don't get their way.
Yup 100%, thought it was relevant to the convo. People need to get away from the idea of an altruistic society and realize that we as human have not evolved even close to that level yet..cuz even those that are doing morally good things are doing so because they are gaining something as well...that is the Hobbes vs Rouseau debate.
Really, the 10C is nothing but decency, so I think people are offended only because it is Biblical, But even more so, all these are found in every mainstream religion. Take religion away, and no problems. Some people cringe with the mere suggestion of a higher authority.