The GOP and Minority Rule

[AM64]

You are correct, there are people who do not know where to find the information or do not have the ability to access it.

Also, the President's last name is Biden. Unless you've got a behavior or cognitive disorder, there's no reason to spell it wrong.

So how do those people function in daily life? Where does their food come from, how do they get to jobs (just kidding), how do they get their other goodies like lottery tickets and booze? Most of all, where in the hell do they get TV without uninterrupted wall to wall political coverage during election season? Now if they've avoided political commercials by cutting the cable, don't you think they can manage to figure out how to vote?

I knew a lot of people growing up who didn't have much (even TV wasn't real common in the country in the early 50s), but they sure knew the candidates (even if we're talking yellow dog democrats), and they knew how to get to the polls - and all that without mail in voting and early voting.

 

[Orangeburst]

So how do those people function in daily life? Where does their food come from, how do they get to jobs (just kidding), how do they get their other goodies like lottery tickets and booze? Most of all, where in the hell do they get TV without uninterrupted wall to wall political coverage during election season? Now if they've avoided political commercials by cutting the cable, don't you think they can manage to figure out how to vote?

I knew a lot of people growing up who didn't have much (even TV wasn't real common in the country in the early 50s), but they sure knew the candidates (even if we're talking yellow dog democrats), and they knew how to get to the polls - and all that without mail in voting and early voting.

But Appalachia..yea that is what this is about. Lulz

 

[landscapingvol]

Let's look at our Appalachian cousins. Imagine living where there's no cell service and no internet service and the only option is satellite internet that you can't afford. Do those people not deserve the right to vote if they needed to ask for a ride to the polls? Or if their church or another church offers to pick them up and take them with others in their community?

The excuses you come up with are mind blowing. Self responsibility and consequences of poor choices have no place in this society anymore, it is a devastatingly bad thought process. Students can now take assessments as many times as they need to to pass and homework can no longer be expected to be completed because some students simply won’t do it therefore it is unfair to expect others to. Parents make excuse after excuse to explain away why they can’t be expected to attend a child’s conference or return a phone call. It’s getting to the point where if an excuse can be made, then it’s a legitimate one

 

[NorthDallas40]

The excuses you come up with are mind blowing. Self responsibility and consequences of poor choices have no place in this society anymore, it is a devastatingly bad thought process. Students can now take assessments as many times as they need to to pass and homework can no longer be expected to be completed because some students simply won’t do it therefore it is unfair to expect others to. Parents make excuse after excuse to explain away why they can’t be expected to attend a child’s conference or return a phone call. It’s getting to the point where if an excuse can be made, then it’s a legitimate one

In @AshG ’s defense he’s not offering excuses on why we should change he’s pointing to his own experiences and trying to promote dialog. Nothing wrong with talking. Like I replied to him I don’t think we should make exceptional efforts if no effort is made in return to use the means of the masses. He didn’t challenge that. Many times he just is playing devils advocate to promote discussion which is fine.

There are plenty of other people spewing actual bull **** they think we should accommodate. Ash isn’t one, he’s just pointing to the extreme cases for discussion purposes.

 

[landscapingvol]

In @AshG ’s defense he’s not offering excuses on why we should change he’s pointing to his own experiences and trying to promote dialog. Nothing wrong with talking. Like I replied to him I don’t think we should make exceptional efforts if no effort is made in return to use the means of the masses. He didn’t challenge that. Many times he just is playing devils advocate to promote discussion which is fine.

There are plenty of other people spewing actual bull **** they think we should accommodate. Ash isn’t one, he’s just pointing to the extreme cases for discussion purposes.

Lone experiences are just that, governing on a basis of what if or what could be isn’t a plan. That’s the problem right now, both sides pander to the extremes as if those are somehow the new normal. I have no doubt that there are legitimate examples of people who have a difficult time in any situation but that doesn’t mean you govern on the basis of how it might impact a handful of people. I have no doubt Ash and others have unique experiences. My grandmother grew up on Sand Mountain, dropped out of school in the third grade, and picked cotton/strawberries for her family. She never learned how to read or write, and couldn’t drive a car yet somehow managed to survive/raise a family. In today’s society, she would be pitied and coddled. She wanted neither. My wife has sarcoma. She has endured 17 rounds of chemotherapy along with 35 rounds of max radiation and two surgeries. She rarely took off from work and was in constant pain. She is brave and someone to look up to because she has kept a great attitude throughout. She stood in line to vote with my help for 45 minutes with a mask on and an infusion pump for her kidneys to flush the chemo. My grandmother walked to the voting precinct if she couldn’t find a ride or just wanted to walk.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Lone experiences are just that, governing on a basis of what if or what could be isn’t a plan. That’s the problem right now, both sides pander to the extremes as if those are somehow the new normal. I have no doubt that there are legitimate examples of people who have a difficult time in any situation but that doesn’t mean you govern on the basis of how it might impact a handful of people. I have no doubt Ash and others have unique experiences. My grandmother grew up on Sand Mountain, dropped out of school in the third grade, and picked cotton/strawberries for her family. She never learned how to read or write, and couldn’t drive a car yet somehow managed to survive/raise a family. In today’s society, she would be pitied and coddled. She wanted neither. My wife has sarcoma. She has endured 17 rounds of chemotherapy along with 35 rounds of max radiation and two surgeries. She rarely took off from work and was in constant pain. She is brave and someone to look up to because she has kept a great attitude throughout. She stood in line to vote with my help for 45 minutes with a mask on and an infusion pump for her kidneys to flush the chemo. My grandmother walked to the voting precinct if she couldn’t find a ride or just wanted to walk.

My mother was similar to your grand mother. Dirt poor from Grainger Co and dropped out of elementary school. She did however educate herself, much to our fear did drive (she scared the hell out of us), and raised a family. She didn’t want pity or handouts either. And she voted regularly. But again I think this is more in just comparison of our anecdotal data and personal instances. Ash wasn’t recommending we take action just asking for input on these extreme cases.

Here’s to praying for your wife. That’s a helluva lot of chemo and radiation.

 

[clarksvol00]

I'm not entirely up to speed on this discussion, but am I reading correctly that there is a law that church busses can't pick people up to take them to vote? If so, what is the reasoning behind the law?

 

[landscapingvol]

My mother was similar to your grand mother. Dirt poor from Grainger Co and dropped out of elementary school. She did however educate herself, much to our fear did drive (she scared the hell out of us), and raised a family. She didn’t want pity or handouts either. And she voted regularly. But again I think this is more in just comparison of our anecdotal data and personal instances. Ash wasn’t recommending we take action just asking for input on these extreme cases.

Here’s to praying for your wife. That’s a helluva lot of chemo and radiation.

That’s the protocols for Ewing’s Sarcoma if you want to live, same as Leukemia. It’s extremely taxing on most adults unfortunately. Yep, she maxed out on Doxorubicin

 

[Orangeburst]

In @AshG ’s defense he’s not offering excuses on why we should change he’s pointing to his own experiences and trying to promote dialog. Nothing wrong with talking. Like I replied to him I don’t think we should make exceptional efforts if no effort is made in return to use the means of the masses. He didn’t challenge that. Many times he just is playing devils advocate to promote discussion which is fine.

There are plenty of other people spewing actual bull **** they think we should accommodate. Ash isn’t one, he’s just pointing to the extreme cases for discussion purposes.

How about this dialogue...Bite me hillbilly.

 

[NorthDallas40]

How about this dialogue...Bite me hillbilly.

Hillbilly on hillbilly violence. Sad!

 

[Orangeburst]

Hillbilly on hillbilly violence. Sad!

 

[AM64]

I'm not entirely up to speed on this discussion, but am I reading correctly that there is a law that church busses can't pick people up to take them to vote? If so, what is the reasoning behind the law?

If there's not a law against church buses running people to the polls, there should be. Same goes with Sunday voting and churches getting people to vote after a sermon telling them how to vote. We have a fundamental concept that separates church and state, and so far the state seems to be doing a far better job on the hands off part than churches do. Example: the catholic church and pressure on biden. Perhaps it's time to take the gloves off and tell churches since some obviously won't honor the concept, they will all be held to the same rules regarding taxes and political speech as any other business. I don't doubt that many churches are honest about how they do things, but it's the others ... The military always had a handle on that kind of thing - punish everybody and then let peer pressure sort it out.

 

[AM64]

Hillbilly on hillbilly violence. Sad!

Hatfields and McCoys all over again on VN.

 

[VolStrom]

The military always had a handle on that kind of thing - punish everybody and then let peer pressure sort it out.

 

[clarksvol00]

If there's not a law against church buses running people to the polls, there should be. Same goes with Sunday voting and churches getting people to vote after a sermon telling them how to vote. We have a fundamental concept that separates church and state, and so far the state seems to be doing a far better job on the hands off part than churches do. Example: the catholic church and pressure on biden. Perhaps it's time to take the gloves off and tell churches since some obviously won't honor the concept, they will all be held to the same rules regarding taxes and political speech as any other business. I don't doubt that many churches are honest about how they do things, but it's the others ... The military always had a handle on that kind of thing - punish everybody and then let peer pressure sort it out.

I dont disagree with you on the tax exempt stuff. I also wonder if the same rule applies to secular non-profits that want to provide rides.

 

[Orangeburst]

I dont disagree with you on the tax exempt stuff. I also wonder if the same rule applies to secular non-profits that want to provide rides.

I disagree with @AM64. There is no way one can use separation of church and state to call out political views from the puilpit with the the 1st Amendment. One often uses their religious views on how thay vote, no separation.

Now we could get into the non profit part, but as far as I am concerned, PACs are tax exempt. LGBT and woke movements are ripping congregations apart as we speak and I guarantee BLM movement, which is political, is spoken in black churches.

I do know that I have been to church before and the minister has to be very careful in his words. Anything said could be considered "political", even the morality of many issues.
Let people speak their minds, and in Houston I saw it first hand during the Hero Law. People scared to speak and that is not America, but political pressure.

 

[AshG]

I dont disagree with you on the tax exempt stuff. I also wonder if the same rule applies to secular non-profits that want to provide rides.

No group or organization is allowed to pay to provide rides for elections in Michigan, church or otherwise. It is considered an inducement. I am curious the extent to which this transportation is provided in the other states/Territories.

I wonder if a rule could be made allowing for groups such as League of Women Voters or even municipalities to provide transportation with the same rules inside the bus as inside the polling station. Just a thought, not married to it.

 

[VolStrom]

I disagree with @AM64. There is no way one can use separation of church and state to call out political views from the puilpit with the the 1st Amendment. One often uses their religious views on how thay vote, no separation.

Now we could get into the non profit part, but as far as I am concerned, PACs are tax exempt. LGBT and woke movements are ripping congregations apart as we speak and I guarantee BLM movement, which is political, is spoken in black churches.

I do know that I have been to church before and the minister has to be very careful in his words. Anything said could be considered "political", even the morality of many issues.
Let people speak their minds, and in Houston I saw it first hand during the Hero Law. People scared to speak and that is not America, but political pressure.

I find this interesting because I've never seen a minister be worried about being "political" before. It's also been a while since I've stepped foot inside a church for anything other than a wedding or funeral.

 

[VolStrom]

Everyone here needs to be gracious and happy that according to Joe Biden, your fourth of July meal costs $0.16 less this year than last year. Now gas or anything else that you use everyday might cost you a few thousand or more over the course of the year, just be thankful for that 16 cents!

 

[clarksvol00]

No group or organization is allowed to pay to provide rides for elections in Michigan, church or otherwise. It is considered an inducement. I am curious the extent to which this transportation is provided in the other states/Territories.

I wonder if a rule could be made allowing for groups such as League of Women Voters or even municipalities to provide transportation with the same rules inside the bus as inside the polling station. Just a thought, not married to it.

So giving somebody a ride to a polling place is an inducement? I assume that people who want to vote know who they want to vote for and would rather not vote than vote for someone else, and people who don't want to vote would see taking the time to do so as a hassle. It would be great to see some empirical evidence that this is an inducement.

 

[Orangeburst]

I find this interesting because I've never seen a minister be worried about being "political" before. It's also been a while since I've stepped foot inside a church for anything other than a wedding or funeral.

I guess my point is "everything can be construed as political" these days. That Hero Law opened my eyes. Speak against on moral issues was considerd polictical and that lesbian mayor even threatened the churches. It is a rabbit hole for all sorts of topics.

 

[AshG]

I used to try to convince myself that the Bible wasn't political. As an adult I've come to the realization that the New Testament and especially the words of Christ are extremely political. Governments don't have you assassinated for being a nice guy preaching a message of kindness. Christ was and is one of the most subversive figures in history with one of the most subversive messages in history.

Unfortunately, I hear too many churches preaching a message that is nothing like what Christ taught. It's all about reconciliation through control and bringing about the Kingdom of God through controlling the laws of the land.

 

[AshG]

So giving somebody a ride to a polling place is an inducement? I assume that people who want to vote know who they want to vote for and would rather not vote than vote for someone else, and people who don't want to vote would see taking the time to do so as a hassle. It would be great to see some empirical evidence that this is an inducement.

We're on the same page with this. The law in Michigan is from the 1940s and has not been overturned despite several efforts over the decades.

We have so many laws on the books that make little to no sense. I wish each state would go through and do a major scrubbing, keeping only the essentials. But I live in la la land where bipartisanship is a good thing and we all want each other to succeed, and the real world isn't like that.

 

[Orangeburst]

I used to try to convince myself that the Bible wasn't political. As an adult I've come to the realization that the New Testament and especially the words of Christ are extremely political. Governments don't have you assassinated for being a nice guy preaching a message of kindness. Christ was and is one of the most subversive figures in history with one of the most subversive messages in history.

Unfortunately, I hear too many churches preaching a message that is nothing like what Christ taught. It's all about reconciliation through control and bringing about the Kingdom of God through controlling the laws of the land.

Please explain. There is no control in a church. Dont like it leave. And people are leaving in droves to a message they dont approve.

 

[AshG]

Please explain. There is no control in a church. Dont like it leave. And people are leaving in droves to a message they dont approve.

Reconciliation through political control.

I don't do the best job of summarizing. Here are two incredible short reads that explain most of it. I'm also reading a book called "Jesus and John Wayne" that discusses more of the religions implications of the marriage of American Fundamentalist Evangelicalism with politics in the 70s and 80s.

How Corporate America Invented Christian America

The Real Origins of the Religious Right