The Initial '08-'09 Hoops Trap 10.

#126
#126
Compared to who? CJ Watson. You couldn't expect him to have had a D. Rose impact. That's simply not possible
 
#129
#129
TennesseeFan07 said:
Ramar would be better than half the point guards playing in the SEC this upcoming season
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At what? Turnovers or missing free throws? And putting him in the middle of the leagues PGs isn't a ringing endorsement - especially with over 70 games under your belt.

Alas, we'll never know.
 
#130
#130
UT IE 95 said:
At what? Turnovers or missing free throws? And putting him in the middle of the leagues PGs isn't a ringing endorsement - especially with over 70 games under your belt.

Alas, we'll never know.
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You're making him out to be Shaq at the FT line. After the 0-12 game against PVA&M he was solid for the rest of the year. He had the POTENTIAL to be an ALL-American pick, but due to the lack of PG leadership around, he struggled. You must be forgetting NCAA Tournament '07
 
#131
#131
TennesseeFan07 said:
You're making him out to be Shaq at the FT line. After the 0-12 game against PVA&M he was solid for the rest of the year. He had the POTENTIAL to be an ALL-American pick, but due to the lack of PG leadership around, he struggled. You must be forgetting NCAA Tournament '07
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To be honest, I don't recall specific individual performances in games that long ago - off the bat I recall slaughtering LBST and choking away the Ohio st games. I had to look up the middle game against Virginia. Ramar had statistically good games in the LBST (as did everyone) and OSU games, but looks like he stunk it up in the Virginia game - fouling out late.

And I'm not buying the "leadership" problems with Ramar developing at the position. Plenty of examples of excellent point guards not needing to be "lead".

Heck - Ramar couldn't beat out Jordan Howell - Jordan freaking Howell. It got so bad that Pearl was playing Prince in the tourney - which assured us a loss against UL.
 
#132
#132
UT IE 95 said:
To be honest, I don't recall specific individual performances in games that long ago - off the bat I recall slaughtering LBST and choking away the Ohio st games. I had to look up the middle game against Virginia. Ramar had statistically good games in the LBST (as did everyone) and OSU games, but looks like he stunk it up in the Virginia game - fouling out late.

And I'm not buying the "leadership" problems with Ramar developing at the position. Plenty of examples of excellent point guards not needing to be "lead".

Heck - Ramar couldn't beat out Jordan Howell - Jordan freaking Howell. It got so bad that Pearl was playing Prince in the tourney - which assured us a loss against UL.
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Ramar had no competition to push him. I'm not the biggest Ramar fan here, but I think we all should be able to admit that no one was there to push him
 
#133
#133
TennesseeFan07 said:
Ramar had no competition to push him. I'm not the biggest Ramar fan here, but I think we all should be able to admit that no one was there to push him
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who pushed Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Dale Ellis, Allan Houston, etc?

I'm with you in thinking Ramar was a stud, but the whole nobody pushed him argument is lame and is an indictment of the coaching going on.
 
#134
#134
Bobby Maze is a stud and so is West. Ron Slay said with West coming down the middle and Tyler smith on the side watch out for some fireworks. With Cameron Tatum and Scotty Hopson on the wing and Tyler Smith and Wayne Chism down low and West or Maze up top..... Wow this team could be the ****..... Not to mention Woolridge and and Jurick...or Negudo???

This team is fully stacked. With Bruce Pearl being the Genious that he is then I def see a final four maybe even the big game this year.
Last year we lost because we did not have a point guard or a mature post player. Chism has great experience now and big Williams is coming along just fine. With all the new additions to the team I see this team doing nothing but winning.

To be honest Jujuan Smith and Lofton were great shooters and hard workers but now we have real Talent on the court and we will see there work ethic. If these new guys work as hard as Lofton and Smith did then you will soon forget about Chris Lofton and Jujuan Smith.
 
#136
#136
BigPapaVol said:
who pushed Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Dale Ellis, Allan Houston, etc?

I'm with you in thinking Ramar was a stud, but the whole nobody pushed him argument is lame and is an indictment of the coaching going on.
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I thought Ramar was a stud coming in, but his performance stunk. You can't continue to say he has "ability", "potential", and "talent". Call him what he is - a bust. I hope he has a great basketball future, but it won't be at UT.
 
#137
#137
UT IE 95 said:
I thought Ramar was a stud coming in, but his performance stunk. You can't continue to say he has "ability", "potential", and "talent". Call him what he is - a bust. I hope he has a great basketball future, but it won't be at UT.
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(imagining a flying Hatvol circling around you, talons out, about to swoop down, ready to pick your bones clean)
 
#138
#138
DowntownVol said:
(imagining a flying Hatvol circling around you, talons out, about to swoop down, ready to pick your bones clean)
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To label Ramar at UT anything other than a bust is a huge overstatement. Like I said, I hope he goes on to prove Pearl wrong and plays forever in the league.
 
#139
#139
sickemsmokey10 said:
sorry, but that's not saying a whole lot when you're basing it solely on the RTL. That's like comparing Micheal Jordan against an elementary school's 2-3 zone
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Of course the RTL is all fun and games - no defense all high flying offense, but Maze did go against Tabb and seemed to frustrate him. He got around him at will. How much was Tabb slacking - I don't know, but they did go one on one and I wouldn't want to continuously be shown up if I was Tabb. I was skepticle of Maze at first, but think he will be a better addition than what we had last year.
 
#140
#140
UT IE 95 said:
To label Ramar at UT anything other than a bust is a huge overstatement. Like I said, I hope he goes on to prove Pearl wrong and plays forever in the league.
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given the outcome, he was definitely a bust.

However, he was very talented and a great finisher. He just struggled mightily with the transition to PG. We'll definitely miss a couple aspects of his game, even at the point.
 
#141
#141
Chemvol said:
And you obviously didn't read any of my other posts either.
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If "choke" happens in the final 4, then how do you regress with a better team the next season? Sorry, I'm just trying to rationalize your thoughts...
 
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#142
#142
VOLS85 said:
I did read your other posts...you said that they will choke. If "choke" happens in the final 4, then how do you regress with a better team the next season? Sorry, I'm just trying to rationalize your thoughts...
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you apparently missed his post about the 93 and 94 UNC teams.
 
#143
#143
That has no bearing on this team...Roy was at Kansas from 1988-2003, so I'm trying to find the correlation there (aside from the fact that the name on the jersey said "North Carolina"). Roy has been to two final fours in the last 4 years with a national championship. His teams at Carolina do not generally underachieve (unless you want to call the final 4 an under achievement). There's no reason to suggest that his team will do the same that a Dean Smith led Carolina team did in 93-94...
 
#144
#144
VOLS85 said:
That has no bearing on this team...Roy was at Kansas from 1988-2003, so I'm trying to find the correlation there (aside from the fact that the name on the jersey said "North Carolina"). Roy has been to two final fours in the last 4 years with a national championship. His teams at Carolina do not generally underachieve (unless you want to call the final 4 an under achievement). There's no reason to suggest that his team will do the same that a Dean Smith led Carolina team did in 93-94...
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Yes there is
 
#146
#146
VOLS85 said:
Solid justification...
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there is no justification. Roy's teams have never underachieved, nor have his mentor's nor has UNC. I think you have it all figured out.

Doesn't help your argument that UNC plays no D and those type of teams often depart one and done situations earlier than they should. Also doesn't help that Hansbrough needs significant officiating help to be the guy UNC needs him to be.
 
#147
#147
I think it's pretty obvious that those of you who are saying someone other than UNC should be the favorite are just trying to depart from the norm...

Everyone and their mom will be picking UNC this year and I think its arrogance and possibly some personnal hatred of UNC that are causing any of you to say they aren't the hands down favorite...

UNC is far and away the most talented, deepest, and most experienced team in college basketball this coming year....there's not a team out there that's even close....

Now...does that mean there's no chance that they won't win it all....of course not....anything can happen....

But to pretend that they shoudln't be picked #1 and be called the odds on favorite to win it all is ridiculous....

And...yes....it is also ridiculous to compare a Dean Smith coached UNC team from 15 years ago to a Roy Williams team now....it's a differant era, differant game and a very differant coach
 
#148
#148
blamie said:
I think it's pretty obvious that those of you who are saying someone other than UNC should be the favorite are just trying to depart from the norm...

Everyone and their mom will be picking UNC this year and I think its arrogance and possibly some personnal hatred of UNC that are causing any of you to say they aren't the hands down favorite...

UNC is far and away the most talented, deepest, and most experienced team in college basketball this coming year....there's not a team out there that's even close....

Now...does that mean there's no chance that they won't win it all....of course not....anything can happen....

But to pretend that they shoudln't be picked #1 and be called the odds on favorite to win it all is ridiculous....

And...yes....it is also ridiculous to compare a Dean Smith coached UNC team from 15 years ago to a Roy Williams team now....it's a differant era, differant game and a very differant coach
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Yeah, very different. In fact, do they even know each other? It's not like Smith was his mentor and both have a history of falling victim to upsets as high seeds in the NCAA Tournament. You're right, nothing in common at all.
 
#149
#149
hatvol96 said:
Yeah, very different. In fact, do they even know each other? It's not like Smith was his mentor and both have a history of falling victim to upsets as high seeds in the NCAA Tournament. You're right, nothing in common at all.
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Yeah...I didn't make that clear....I was talking about their styles...

Smith was a halfcourt, run out the shot clock, feed it to the post kind of coach...

Williams is a run and gun guy whose philosophy is centered around the point guard...

Smith was defintely his mentor but they have differant approaches to the game...

And the person who originally brought up the early to mid 90's UNC teams wasn't even going into that much detail....he was quoting something that happened 15 years ago as if it would have any effect on this year...

And as far as choking is concerned....how bad did Williams choke in 05? Or better yet...how bad did he choke as a coach in 06 when he was replacing his top 7 players from that championship team?

And before anyone says he won in 05 with Daugherty's players....how was Daugherty doing with those players?
 
#150
#150
blamie said:
Smith was a halfcourt, run out the shot clock, feed it to the post kind of coach...

Williams is a run and gun guy whose philosophy is centered around the point guard...

Smith was defintely his mentor but they have differant approaches to the game...
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They both run the secondary break. Williams tweaked it, runs it a little faster, and tends to go to the scramble defense a bit earlier in the game. The differences are few.
 
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