The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

#14,851
#14,851
RockyTop85 said:
I agree with that analysis as to most of the people involved in the physical rioting, but I don’t think it extends to the candidate or the campaign.

Do you disagree that the plan was to secure an unelected second “term” for Trump?

At that point, doesn’t it cease to be “our government,” even if he continues to exercise executive control over the same government agencies an institutions.

The riot also wasn’t the only step taken in furtherance of that objective. There was the whole process of organizing the production of fake electoral votes and having them submitted plus the request and subsequent pressure campaign on Pence to open them instead of the legitimate votes.

Their objective was to establish what would be properly categorized as a form of dictatorship and they took steps to try to see that objective come to fruition. It ultimately failed, but they still tried.
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Talk about a slanted unrealistic recreation of what happened. None of what you wrote is true.

The tell, in case you were wondering, was you using the term fake electoral votes.
 
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#14,853
#14,853
85SugarVol said:
Sure. I’d definitely say Trump wanted to stay in power. I don’t see how the riotous mob constituted the mechanism by which he would achieve that.

Could he want an insurrection, and the mob not be an insurrection? Idk.
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It wasn’t just the rioutous mob, though.
 
#14,855
#14,855
BigOrangeMojo said:
Trump's expert on valuation "pulled the number from his head and that his method for determining value was not re-creatable" without any objective basis or support. This expert was also a member at MAL.

For you to be qualified as an expert (in NY or anywhere else), you have to use generally accepted principles for valuation to be admissible as an expert.

Since this did not happen, the judge had to rely on the only piece of properly submitted evidence, which was the property tax assessments.

We all know MAL is worth a lot more than $27 million but you also have to properly submit evidence too...
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Appraisers come to differing amounts on the same property, all the time. That is ridiculous. Also, why didnt the State provide an "expert"?
 
#14,857
#14,857
volgr said:
Talk about a slanted unrealistic recreation of what happened. None of what you wrote is true.

The tell, in case you were wondering, was you using the term fake electoral votes.
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Well, they were fake. It seems the tell was actually on yourself.
 
#14,861
#14,861
volgr said:
They werent fake, they were alternate electors.
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No. They were fake.
apnews.com

Takeaways from the Wisconsin 2020 fake electors lawsuit settlement

More than 1,400 pages of emails, text messages and other documents released Monday reveal details of a strategy by Republican operatives tied to then-President Donald Trump to overturn Joe Biden’s 2020 victory in Wisconsin.
apnews.com apnews.com

It named attorneys Kenneth Chesebro and Jim Troupis, along with 10 Republicans who signed documents falsely stating they were electors. The electors settled in December. Chesebro and Troupis settled by agreeing to turn over the documents.

The settlement lays bare the orchestrated plan to keep Trump in office by creating paperwork and pulling together false slates of Republican electors in Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona and belatedly New Mexico.
 
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#14,864
#14,864
luthervol said:
No. They were fake.
apnews.com

Takeaways from the Wisconsin 2020 fake electors lawsuit settlement

More than 1,400 pages of emails, text messages and other documents released Monday reveal details of a strategy by Republican operatives tied to then-President Donald Trump to overturn Joe Biden’s 2020 victory in Wisconsin.
apnews.com apnews.com

It named attorneys Kenneth Chesebro and Jim Troupis, along with 10 Republicans who signed documents falsely stating they were electors. The electors settled in December. Chesebro and Troupis settled by agreeing to turn over the documents.

The settlement lays bare the orchestrated plan to keep Trump in office by creating paperwork and pulling together false slates of Republican electors in Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona and belatedly New Mexico.
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This has been debunked numerous times. They weren't false they were alternate electors who had to file as electors by a certain date. The reason they filed was to try and FOLLOW the law not skirt it. When the elector deadline hit, there were still on going legal disputes in multiple States. There was no fraud because everyone knew who the actual electors were and everyone knew why the alternate electors were filing elector paperwork.

It is disingenuous at best to suggest these people were doing anything unlawful.
 
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#14,865
#14,865
whodeycin85 said:
To those on the left...are you ok with selective prosecution by DAs, the DOJ and or selective judgements??
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I'm not on the left...

1. I have no issue if a law is clearly broken. Same thing applies for Hunter Biden and his gun/tax issues.

2. I have an issue with judgments that have no basis in economic reality
 
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#14,866
#14,866
Here’s the Cheseboro memo where he lays out a plan to have Pence use the fake certificates to manage the electoral count and keep trump in the lead. He acknowledges that it likely won’t be upheld (that it’s illegal).

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org

“Again,I'dbe happy to elaborate further on the January 6 scenario I havein mind,but provided the three conditions above are met, unless I am missing something, I believe that what can be achieved on January 6 is not simply to keep Biden below 270 electoral votes.Itseems feasible that thevote count can be conducted sothat at no point willTrump be behind inthe electoral vote count unless anduntil Bidencan obtain a favorable decision from the Supreme Court upholding the Electoral Count Act as constitutional, orotherwise recognizing the power ofCongress (and notthe President ofthe Senate) tocount the votes”
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Here’s the Eastman Memo where he lays out a similar plan to ignore the electoral count act procedures, except the ones that would ensure Trump wins:

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org

“When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act. 3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected. 4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.”
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Here’s the text of Trump’s speech from January 6 where he endorses the Eastman memo:

Thank you very much, John. Fantastic job. I watched. That's a tough act to follow, those two. John is one of the most brilliant lawyers in the country, and he looked at this and he said, "What an absolute disgrace that this can be happening to our Constitution."

And he looked at Mike Pence, and I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so.

Because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. All he has to do, all this is, this is from the number one, or certainly one of the top, Constitutional lawyers in our country. He has the absolute right to do it.”
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Of course, by January 6 it was obvious that there was no legitimate controversy. It was obvious that the documents purporting to be certificates of ascertainment from the “duly elected and qualified Electors for
President and Vice President of the United States of America” were neither duly elected nor qualified. They hadn’t been endorsed by a single state legislature. They hadn’t been certified by the procedures set forth in any state. They were fake.

Even the purported electors themselves knew it was bogus when they did it:
www.nytimes.com

‘Kind of Wild/Creative’: Emails Shed Light on Trump Fake Electors Plan (Published 2022)

Previously undisclosed communications among Trump campaign aides and outside advisers provide new insight into their efforts to overturn the election in the weeks leading to Jan. 6.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

So the plan was to go outside of the electoral count act procedures to secure an unelected second term for Trump.

Loading…

www.factcheck.org

Here is Pence saying that Trump and his “gaggle of crackpot lawyers” demand that he overturn the election.
 
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#14,867
#14,867
whodeycin85 said:
To those on the left...are you ok with selective prosecution by DAs, the DOJ and or selective judgements??
Click to expand...

Is this new to 2023? Haven't all decisions to prosecute been up to a DA's discretion? And aren't judgments by definition, selected by the judge?

Sounds like you don't like certain people being held accountable because who they are. Instead of bellyaching about your guy being invited to the party, why not stand up for the position that all of these criminal a-holes should be held to the same standard.
 
#14,868
#14,868
volgr said:
This has been debunked numerous times. They weren't false they were alternate electors who had to file as electors by a certain date. The reason they filed was to try and FOLLOW the law not skirt it. When the elector deadline hit, there were still on going legal disputes in multiple States. There was no fraud because everyone knew who the actual electors were and everyone knew why the alternate electors were filing elector paperwork.

It is disingenuous at best to suggest these people were doing anything unlawful.
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Nope - you're simply wrong.

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Ten Republicans who posed as fake electors for former President Donald Trump in Wisconsin and filed paperwork falsely saying he had won the battleground state have settled a civil lawsuit and admitted their actions were part of an effort to overturn President Joe Biden’s victory, attorneys who filed the case announced Wednesday.
 
#14,869
#14,869
luthervol said:
Nope - you're simply wrong.

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Ten Republicans who posed as fake electors for former President Donald Trump in Wisconsin and filed paperwork falsely saying he had won the battleground state have settled a civil lawsuit and admitted their actions were part of an effort to overturn President Joe Biden’s victory, attorneys who filed the case announced Wednesday.
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Wasting your time with Infowars.
 
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#14,870
#14,870
luthervol said:
Nope - you're simply wrong.

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Ten Republicans who posed as fake electors for former President Donald Trump in Wisconsin and filed paperwork falsely saying he had won the battleground state have settled a civil lawsuit and admitted their actions were part of an effort to overturn President Joe Biden’s victory, attorneys who filed the case announced Wednesday.
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No, I am not wrong because I was alive in 2020 and read many public articles/discussions about the alternate elector legal theory. Yes, the goal was to challenge and then LEGALLY (this word is somehow always left out, wonder why?) overturn the Election due to voter fraud.

There is no way for "fake" or alternate electors to secretly become actual electors.

Again, no one on this board has been able to explain how this is either fraud or illegal.
 
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#14,873
#14,873
volgr said:
He is getting schooled, jump in coward.
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I think you need to put your theory into practice. Put in a call to your doctor, go ahead and forge yourself a prescription, and take that meth that’s been rotting your brain down to your local police station. Tell them that you have an alternate prescription and hot rail a big rock right in the lobby.

Let us know how it plays out.
 
#14,875
#14,875
volgr said:
No, I am not wrong because I was alive in 2020 and read many public articles/discussions about the alternate elector legal theory. Yes, the goal was to challenge and then LEGALLY (this word is somehow always left out, wonder why?) overturn the Election due to voter fraud.

There is no way for "fake" or alternate electors to secretly become actual electors.

Again, no one on this board has been able to explain how this is either fraud or illegal.
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By knowingly and admittedly signing a false document.

There you go!!!!!

Now that wasn't so hard.
 
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