The Official Tennessee Titans thread IV

#46,051
#46,051
Vol8188 said:
I don’t disagree about the price being too steep at times trade wise. But people on here were openly claiming Jackson wasn’t elite based on 2 or 3 playoff games he had played to that point.

Dak had 4,500+ yards 36 TDs only 9 ints last season and he’s top 10 all time in career passer rating. He’s elite
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I don't know what your definition of "elite" is, but before last season, most people in the NFL world did not consider Dak a top 10 QB. I still would not put him top 5 currently. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB or a mediocre QB.
 
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#46,052
#46,052
Carp said:
I don't know what your definition of "elite" is, but before last season, most people in the NFL world did not consider Dak a top 10 QB. I still would not put him top 5 currently. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB or a mediocre QB.
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Not sure who was making that claim but they were out of their minds. Like I said, he’s top ten all time in passer rating. So to claim he’s not even top ten among active QBs is insane.
 
#46,053
#46,053
Vol8188 said:
Not sure who was making that claim but they were out of their minds. Like I said, he’s top ten all time in passer rating. So to claim he’s not even top ten among active QBs is insane.
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'
That's not as impressive as you think it is in this era of the NFL. Currently Deshaun Watson is 4th all time. Kirk Cousins and Jimmy Garoppolo are also top 10. Meanwhile, Peyton and Brady are outside the top 10.
 
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#46,054
#46,054
Carp said:
'
That's not as impressive as you think it is in this era of the NFL. Currently Deshaun Watson is 4th all time. Kirk Cousins and Jimmy Garoppolo are also top 10. Meanwhile, Peyton and Brady are outside the top 10.
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Pre suspension Watson was playing at an elite level. Kirk Cousins has been very good most of his career. JG is just a product of a really QB friendly system.

Dak’s biggest problem is he’s a Cowboys QB and their fanbase is insane. He second biggest problem is the fans and media who want to proclaim you’re not elite if you haven’t won a Super Bowl, which is insane
 
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#46,055
#46,055
Vol8188 said:
Pre suspension Watson was playing at an elite level. Kirk Cousins has been very good most of his career. JG is just a product of a really QB friendly system.

Dak’s biggest problem is he’s a Cowboys QB and their fanbase is insane. He second biggest problem is the fans and media who want to proclaim you’re not elite if you haven’t won a Super Bowl, which is insane
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Again, QB rating is supremely flawed stat. 11 the top 20 all time are current NFL Qbs and Brady and Peyton aren't even top 10. If you think Dan Marino is the 47th best QB ever..... well.... I have a bridge to sell you.

I am not saying Dak is bad QB or even a mediocre QB., But he's had exactly 2 seasons in 8 years where he was unquestionably an elite QB from a production standpoint. And before last season, it was 1 season. Maybe if you squint you could say 2019 was elite, but honestly it was just a really great year for QBs, so I really can't put him any higher than 6th or 7th in 2019. But certainly he was on par with a couple of the QBs ahead of him that season.

So at most, he's had 3 seasons where he's finished as a top 5 QB production wise. And of course, this ignores intangibles like post-season performance (which does in fact matter).
 
#46,056
#46,056
Carp said:
Again, QB rating is supremely flawed stat. 11 the top 20 all time are current NFL Qbs and Brady and Peyton aren't even top 10. If you think Dan Marino is the 47th best QB ever..... well.... I have a bridge to sell you.

I am not saying Dak is bad QB or even a mediocre QB., But he's had exactly 2 seasons in 8 years where he was unquestionably an elite QB from a production standpoint. And before last season, it was 1 season. Maybe if you squint you could say 2019 was elite, but honestly it was just a really great year for QBs, so I really can't put him any higher than 6th or 7th in 2019. But certainly he was on par with a couple of the QBs ahead of him that season.

So at most, he's had 3 seasons where he's finished as a top 5 QB production wise. And of course, this ignores intangibles like post-season performance (which does in fact matter).
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Sure the era you played in matters for QBR. But all the current guys are playing in his era.

Yes, he’s had 3 elite seasons. If you only look at full seasons, he’s only played 6 of those. If you take the last 3 years that he was healthy those were all his elite seasons. Meaning his only non-elite years were his first 3 in the league. I find his most recent 3 to be of far more value than his first three when asking the question of if he’s elite. Plenty of elite guys (Josh Allen for example) take 2-3 seasons to really perform at a high level but even his first 3 were very good years. He’s never had a bad season
 
#46,057
#46,057
He was not elite in 2022, even accounting for injury. He lead the league in picks despite only playing 12 games. He also was not elite in 2020 before the injuries.

Dak is who is he is. An upper tier QB, but he's never been close to the best QB in the league. He's Matt Stafford without the superbowl win.
 
#46,058
#46,058
Carp said:
He was not elite in 2022, even accounting for injury. He lead the league in picks despite only playing 12 games. He also was not elite in 2020 before the injuries.

Dak is who is he is. An upper tier QB, but he's never been close to the best QB in the league. He's Matt Stafford without the superbowl win.
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“If you take the last 3 years he was healthy, those were all his elite seasons”

In his 3 most recent years that he was healthy, all 3 of those were elite seasons. And sure he’s been close to the best. He was an MVP candidate last season
 
#46,059
#46,059
Vol8188 said:
“If you take the last 3 years he was healthy, those were all his elite seasons”

In his 3 most recent years that he was healthy, all 3 of those were elite seasons. And sure he’s been close to the best. He was an MVP candidate last season
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That's some mighty fine cherry picking.
 
#46,060
#46,060
Carp said:
That's some mighty fine cherry picking.
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Doesn’t seem like cherry picking. We only have 8 seasons to judge. I’m judging off his 3 most recent complete seasons.

A lot of QBs don’t break out until their 3rd or 4th year in the league
 
#46,061
#46,061
Vol8188 said:
Doesn’t seem like cherry picking. We only have 8 seasons to judge. I’m judging off his 3 most recent complete seasons.

A lot of QBs don’t break out until their 3rd or 4th year in the league
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Because one of those seasons was 5 years ago.
 
#46,062
#46,062
Carp said:
Because one of those seasons was 5 years ago.
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Sure. I’m taking his 3 most recent full seasons. All 3 of those were elite.

You’re calling it cherry picking because I’m ignoring one season in which he played 12 games…okay. Let’s count it.

Then you have 3 of his 4 most recent seasons being elite. Hard to say he’s not elite based on that
 
#46,063
#46,063
Vol8188 said:
Here’s some of the comments I was referencing about how bad our board is at evaluating QBs.
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Lulz at you being the arbiter of quality here. What you quoted from me wasn't even an evaluation of Lamar specifically, but instead, a criticism of you saying there wasn't enough data to evaluate him as a playoff contending QB.

But I will take the call out bait anyway. The context of the conversation was about signing Lamar which ended up being at 5 yrs, $260M. I believe we can agree that Titans have roster issues throughout. Signing a QB at $50M+ a year would have made it difficult to build out the rest of the Titans' roster. He certainly would have made the Titans better at that position, though.

I'm comfortable with the "evaluation" that, given Lamar's style of play, injury history, and playoff record, that a 5-yr investment in him comes with more risk than other QBs in his peer group. A risk that I don't think the Titans could afford given the rest of the roster issues.

To the other poster's point, Lamar has still not been elite in his playoff performances as a passer. He has 2 playoff wins in which he threw for 152 and 179 yards. Overall, 9 TDs to 12 TOs. The Ravens have been best when not relying on his arm but instead their running game and defense.
 
#46,064
#46,064
95 Vol Alum said:
Lulz at you being the arbiter of quality here. What you quoted from me wasn't even an evaluation of Lamar specifically, but instead, a criticism of you saying there wasn't enough data to evaluate him as a playoff contending QB.

But I will take the call out bait anyway. The context of the conversation was about signing Lamar which ended up being at 5 yrs, $260M. I believe we can agree that Titans have roster issues throughout. Signing a QB at $50M+ a year would have made it difficult to build out the rest of the Titans' roster. He certainly would have made the Titans better at that position, though.

I'm comfortable with the "evaluation" that, given Lamar's style of play, injury history, and playoff record, that a 5-yr investment in him comes with more risk than other QBs in his peer group. A risk that I don't think the Titans could afford given the rest of the roster issues.

To the other poster's point, Lamar has still not been elite in his playoff performances as a passer. He has 2 playoff wins in which he threw for 152 and 179 yards. Overall, 9 TDs to 12 TOs. The Ravens have been best when not relying on his arm but instead their running game and defense.
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You were attempting to claim 4 games was a large enough sample to proclaim he’s somehow a lesser playoff in the playoffs.

It’s about as dumb of an argument as possible. “Here’s a four game sample of bad play! One of which was his rookie year! I have enough data! I have 5 seasons”

That’s room temperature IQ level stuff
 
#46,065
#46,065
Vol8188 said:
You were attempting to claim 4 games was a large enough sample to proclaim he’s somehow a lesser playoff in the playoffs.

It’s about as dumb of an argument as possible. “Here’s a four game sample of bad play! One of which was his rookie year! I have enough data! I have 5 seasons”

That’s room temperature IQ level stuff
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That’s me, low IQ guy. Feel free to talk about my mom next. She’s ripe for a few slams.

I’ll note that you present no data other than sample size.

Just wondering…given LJ is an elite QB as a result of his running ability, do you think his SB contention odds go up or down with more time? I’d argue that his first contract and fresh legs were his greatest chance to deliver, and he hasn’t. Now he’s expensive, the roster will be more challenging going forward to help him out, and there’s more wear on his body.

Individually, he’s still good enough to win it barring injury, but I’m good with my mental midget take.
 
#46,066
#46,066
95 Vol Alum said:
That’s me, low IQ guy. Feel free to talk about my mom next. She’s ripe for a few slams.

I’ll note that you present no data other than sample size.

Just wondering…given LJ is an elite QB as a result of his running ability, do you think his SB contention odds go up or down with more time? I’d argue that his first contract and fresh legs were his greatest chance to deliver, and he hasn’t. Now he’s expensive, the roster will be more challenging going forward to help him out, and there’s more wear on his body.

Individually, he’s still good enough to win it barring injury, but I’m good with my mental midget take.
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He just won an MVP. He’s good enough to win a Super Bowl and his contract won’t be an issue if the roster is properly managed and like all SB teams they’ll need a little luck

His cap number is only 6th overall right now and 17m less than the highest paid QB.
 
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#46,067
#46,067
Vol8188 said:
I don’t disagree about the price being too steep at times trade wise. But people on here were openly claiming Jackson wasn’t elite based on 2 or 3 playoff games he had played to that point.

Dak had 4,500+ yards 36 TDs only 9 ints last season and he’s top 10 all time in career passer rating. He’s elite
Click to expand...
Elite QBs don't get the deer in the headlights look like Dak does in the postseason. He's really good at putting up stats. Huge stats doesn't make a QB elite as you're suggesting
 
#46,068
#46,068
Vol8188 said:
Pre suspension Watson was playing at an elite level. Kirk Cousins has been very good most of his career. JG is just a product of a really QB friendly system.

Dak’s biggest problem is he’s a Cowboys QB and their fanbase is insane. He second biggest problem is the fans and media who want to proclaim you’re not elite if you haven’t won a Super Bowl, which is insane
Click to expand...
If he didn't have poor performances in the playoffs he might be "elite"
 
#46,070
#46,070
Vol8188 said:
Pre suspension Watson was playing at an elite level. Kirk Cousins has been very good most of his career. JG is just a product of a really QB friendly system.

Dak’s biggest problem is he’s a Cowboys QB and their fanbase is insane. He second biggest problem is the fans and media who want to proclaim you’re not elite if you haven’t won a Super Bowl, which is insane
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Dak is elite against bad teams and average (at best) against good teams. He gets to play the giants and washington twice a year and loads his stats accordingly. I understand you play the teams on your schedule, but when it comes to the big games, he just doesn't step it up. When you are calling someone elite or paying them elite money, you expect that person to be able to carry the team when needed. Dak ain't able to do that. Or at least he has not shown that ability so far. If I had been Jerry, I would have let Dak play out the year and then IF he had exceeded expectations I would have offered him a contract that was commensurate with that. Otherwise, I would have helped him pack the u-haul.
 
#46,072
#46,072
I just want to say that Levis is not the guy, he gets to flustered mentally, bad in-game decisions. Has anyone heard about the Hooker trade? If there is already something about this my fault, first time on NFL thread.
 
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