The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

[davethevol]

First and foremost, end the war on drugs. This is the no-brainer solution that would be easy to execute properly and would result in a huge amount of progress in improving relations between the CJ system and minorities.

Other important changes that are easier said than done: we need to fix the incentives for investigating officers, prosecuting attorneys, judges and DA's. The plea bargain system is broken. It would be nice to update training and rules of engagement for police officers.

Not sure that a 2 year degree or a 4 year degree would change much.

I agree with most of this. I think drugs should be decriminalized, but not necessarily made legal. Police have to be taught how to de-escalate situations instead of escalating them. But police are not the whole problem. The black community has to do a better job of changing its culture. Glorifying gangster rappers and baby mommas is a big problem.

 

[A_Vol_n_Hog_Country]

If I could snap my fingers and make it so, all drugs.

I'd legalize and regulate all drugs much the same as we regulate alcohol.

Have you ever met someone on Meth,PCP, Herion, Cocaine that was experiencing excited delirium? Do you know how many DWI calls are a result of people abusing their prescription medications?

 

[ClearwaterVol]

I'm with you on legalizing drugs, I just think we'd go about it differently.

To me the easiest way to fix the judicial system is to do two things.

1. stop electing district attorneys
2. when a DA decides to take a case to court they must file a budget and whatever the DA plans to spend the defense should get the same. Justice shouldn't depend on your bank account.

Number 2 isn't feasible. You cannot limit choices like that.

 

[StillStanding]

Start with education and training of our police. The justice system is also at fault for letting some of these cops off.

To fix the problem requires training on just one side of the issue?

How about adding to that required teaching and training program at the K-12 level about how to respect the law and how to respond to police officers? Teach that being belligerent and confrontational with law enforcement only leads to bad things for you. Teach that police are there for your protection from evil- doers, and to protect the public from dangerous drivers who speed or drive while intoxicated.

 

[hog88]

Have you ever met someone on Meth,PCP, Herion, Cocaine that was experiencing excited delirium? Do you know how many DWI calls are a result of people abusing their prescription medications?

All bad stuff but keeping them illegal has done nothing to prevent addiction. All it's done is make dealers/cartels super rich and make us spend billions chasing our tail.

 

[hog88]

Number 2 isn't feasible. You cannot limit choices like that.

How is #2 limiting choice? It's expanding the choices a poor defendant has.

 

[joevol33]

I think everyone who has stated an opinion in this thread is wrong. Not because I disagree, but just because I say so. 😬

 

[A_Vol_n_Hog_Country]

All bad stuff but keeping them illegal has done nothing to prevent addiction. All it's done is make dealers/cartels super rich and make us spend billions chasing our tail.

Very true.:hi:

 

[n_huffhines]

Are you saying that their is a correlation between drugs and minorities? If you're not, than why would ending the war on drugs improve relations? Just curious

The war on drugs disproportionately hits the poor and minorities.

 

[n_huffhines]

What drugs are we legalizing? Marijuana or all drugs?

Americans should be free to choose

 

[LSU-SIU]

All bad stuff but keeping them illegal has done nothing to prevent addiction. All it's done is make dealers/cartels super rich and make us spend billions chasing our tail.

I actually agree but everything you guys are talking about are mostly village, towns, cities, counties, and states area of jurisdiction. This kind of discussion is mostly a waste of time at a national level, generally, your local problems/issues should be first addressed locally.

So, when I hear the word, "we", I kind of giggle because this isn't a "we" issue, generally unless the "we" equals "us locally".

 

[ClearwaterVol]

How is #2 limiting choice? It's expanding the choices a poor defendant has.

The way I understand your proposal is that a defendant could not hire an expensive attorney unless he/she was willing to work for government wages.

Also, how would determine the amount of money spent by the prosecution? Prosecutor's salary by the day? Prorated according to number of cases? Do we add in financial benefits such as pensions and health insurance? How do we determine how much was spent on officers for investigations? And then the same questions regarding prosecutor apply to the officers. Do we account for indirect litigation support such as paralegals, west law subscriptions, etc?

 

[n_huffhines]

I actually agree but everything you guys are talking about are mostly village, towns, cities, counties, and states area of jurisdiction. This kind of discussion is mostly a waste of time at a national level, generally, your local problems/issues should be first addressed locally.

So, when I hear the word, "we", I kind of giggle because this isn't a "we" issue, generally unless the "we" equals "us locally".

The War on Drugs is federal. Even when states legalize weed locally, the feds still interfere. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Gonna get worse too.

Hopefully

 

[LSU-SIU]

The War on Drugs is federal. Even when states legalize weed locally, the feds still interfere. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying.

Yeah, but that is moot because the people locally have their own set of rules. There is no national plan, all of this from cops to drugs to paying for defenses, are generally local jurisdictional issues -- more or less what you guys are talking about has very little to do with the federal government.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Man, reading some comments on some boards, the NFL might have awoke the sleeping giant. Wow. Pretty brutal.

It will pass. no pun intended. By Thanksgiving all of this will be forgotten.

 

[LSU-SIU]

It will pass. no pun intended. By Thanksgiving all of this will be forgotten.

I don't know about that, Trump will be hammering them pretty soon if the owners don't kneel to him. Of course, its not like this is a new situation... slow death for a few years in sports in general... I at least expect that trend to continue.

As far as the NFL, I have no issue with seeing them collapse.

 

[armchair]

Here's a column on the REAL Donald Trump. A real patriot? Not hardly.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...rump-s-true-aim-is-to-inflame-racial-tensions

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I
If you're judging his character based on that tweet, could it not just as easily be concluded that he's bigoted against multi-millionaires?

Had the poster said that HE was a Dimocrat, you would be well within the margin of error

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Americans should be free to choose

Agree. But the free health care system should not pay for you if you harm yourself doing them either.

I know where this argument is going....

 

[LSU-SIU]

Here's a column on the REAL Donald Trump. A real patriot? Not hardly.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...rump-s-true-aim-is-to-inflame-racial-tensions

I didn't read the article because I am starting to get the drift of your political stance. Trump already won this one -- no article is going to change that.

But please rage on.

Hint: Everyone knows Trump is a hypocrite, so?

 

[hog88]

The way I understand your proposal is that a defendant could not hire an expensive attorney unless he/she was willing to work for government wages.

Also, how would determine the amount of money spent by the prosecution? Prosecutor's salary by the day? Prorated according to number of cases? Do we add in financial benefits such as pensions and health insurance? How do we determine how much was spent on officers for investigations? And then the same questions regarding prosecutor apply to the officers. Do we account for indirect litigation support such as paralegals, west law subscriptions, etc?

Not what I meant. The defendant gets at least what the the prosecution plans to spend, we're still a free country so a defendant could spend more.

Of course I don't have all of the details but I don't see how budgeting for a trial would be all that difficult. The police work is done and available to each side so that's out. If the DA has an investigator working past what LEO has done, that expense is easy to line item. Any expert witnesses would also be easy ext ext. DA offices already have budgets so...

In short, the state shouldn't have a blank check available to them to prosecute someone and the defendant has to go broke or rely on overloaded and underfunded public defenders to defend themselves.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I don't know about that, Trump will be hammering them pretty soon if the owners don't kneel to him. Of course, its not like this is a new situation... slow death for a few years in sports in general... I at least expect that trend to continue.

As far as the NFL, I have no issue with seeing them collapse.

Have you SEEN the people that are gaga over the NFL? Fans took up a collection to pay Brady's legal bills for crying out loud. You think this is anything more than a blip on the radar?

I'll bet that Steelers fan that burned all his stuff in the BBQ is kicking himself already.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Number 2 isn't feasible. You cannot limit choices like that.

Why not? Hog has an interesting idea. Prosecutors usually only take the cases they know they are going to win anyway. (I have a former high school classmate that was a Commonwealth Attorney in Kentucky and he gave me the low down on that one time) How hard is it to prosecute child sex abuse cases counselor? How many are plea bargained? Wonder why?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Have you SEEN the people that are gaga over the NFL? Fans took up a collection to pay Brady's legal bills for crying out loud. You think this is anything more than a blip on the radar?

I'll bet that Steelers fan that burned all his stuff in the BBQ is kicking himself already.

Well, I know its more than a blip as this has been a problem for many years now, before this even started, I believe the trend will continue -- I would go out in the intertubes... I think you will see things are not the same. Time will tell, I expect the trend to continue. Actually, all you need is one thing to happen - removal of the NFL's anti-trust exemption.

I turned it off years ago, turned off cable last year, you would be very surprised by how many people are actually talking about it -- don't worry Trump will be hammering them again. Most of the people I know don't even have cable anymore.