The very stable genius had to be sequestered from nukes

[RockyTop85]

It is one of the allegations in the book. How true remains to be seen.

The insubordination and defiance is/would be the fact he (allegedly) informed the Chinese he would warn them of an attack and/or not follow out the orders and instruct the other Flag Officers not to follow the orders of the President. That's pretty central to the outrage here. If true, that's a pretty damn serious charge.

Link?

I’ve read multiple articles about this and haven’t seen anybody claiming he told the Chinese he would instruct others not to follow orders. I’d be surprised if that was left out of any of the articles I’ve read.

I’m not even sure how he could have actually warned them of something we weren’t doing and had no interest in doing. That’s not alleged, either.

I’ve read that he promised to warn them, which could be concerning, but I don’t have enough context to say whether that’s wrong.

 

[luthervol]

I understand the facts are still coming out.

IF it comes to light that Milley acted without authorization, and went outside the chain of command - is your opinion subject to change?

Sure. I hope all of the relevant facts and details come out and are made public. I would really love it if everyone could actually agree to what the actual facts and details are.

I would hate for it to turn into another "stolen election" farce where have the people are spouting what they claim to be "facts" that the other half knows to be untrue.

 

[Grand Vol]

Link?

I’ve read multiple articles about this and haven’t seen anybody claiming he told the Chinese he would instruct others not to follow orders. I’d be surprised if that was left out of any of the articles I’ve read.

I’m not even sure how he could have actually warned them of something we weren’t doing and had no interest in doing. That’s not alleged, either.

I’ve read that he promised to warn them, which could be concerning, but I don’t have enough context to say whether that’s wrong.

'Traitorous' or 'tabloidish': Should Milley be court-martialed or Woodward condemned?

 

[Grand Vol]

Link?

I’ve read multiple articles about this and haven’t seen anybody claiming he told the Chinese he would instruct others not to follow orders. I’d be surprised if that was left out of any of the articles I’ve read.

I’m not even sure how he could have actually warned them of something we weren’t doing and had no interest in doing. That’s not alleged, either.

I’ve read that he promised to warn them, which could be concerning, but I don’t have enough context to say whether that’s wrong.

So... there really does need to be some serious sorting of fact, fiction and conjecture just to get to the bottom. Like others have pointed out, Woodward has seriously embellished facts as of late and isn't as much a journalist as much as a book hawker.

Regardless, such things should be checked out and either he admits he's making things up or Milley gets courts martialed.

 

[85SugarVol]

Yes.

They saber rattle to get attention. The US has never needed to get into social media sniping with anyone, acknowledging their nonsense validates that we're worried about them.

They're like a crying toddler, best just to ignore them.

Walk softly and carry a big stick, remember?

This

 

[85SugarVol]

Sure. I hope all of the relevant facts and details come out and are made public. I would really love it if everyone could actually agree to what the actual facts and details are.

I would hate for it to turn into another "stolen election" farce where have the people are spouting what they claim to be "facts" that the other half knows to be untrue.

I too would like to see all the details in the light of day.

Transcripts would probably be a good place to start.

 

[volinbham]

General Milley Rides Through Streets Of Beijing Shouting ‘The Americans Are Coming!’

 

[NorthDallas40]

General Milley Rides Through Streets Of Beijing Shouting ‘The Americans Are Coming!’

"Hey look, those Chinese generals are my buddies, they deserve fair warning—I've known them for ten years now, and they are always so nice to me. They were super supportive about that whole Afghanistan withdrawal thing—those friendships are more important than some job," explained General Milley, America's highest-ranking military officer.

"I mean—they aren't close friends, we don't get together for poker or anything. But we do sometimes exchange funny memes and nuclear codes. We also play that game 'Battleship', but I use the actual coordinates of the 7th fleet, which adds that element of realism which makes it more fun."

 

[85SugarVol]

General Milley Rides Through Streets Of Beijing Shouting ‘The Americans Are Coming!’

Who doesn’t like a good cat gif?

 

[wmcovol]

Woodward/Costa book: Worried Trump could 'go rogue,' Milley took secret action to protect nuclear weapons - CNNPolitics

General Milley met with top military brass and, convinced that Trump had completely lost it, ordered them not to let Trump do something nutty.



Got to keep Trump out of the WH in 2024, for the sake of the World and humanity.

Hell, I guess you’ve punted on saving the country. That’s too bad cause when this place is like the rest of the world, it’s not gonna be worth a ****

 

[RockyTop85]

'Traitorous' or 'tabloidish': Should Milley be court-martialed or Woodward condemned?

It’s an opinion piece by Jonathon Turley () that does the exact same thing you’re doing.

States the allegations plainly:
“Milley stressed the ‘process’…”
“They claim Milley called Gen. Li Zuocheng of China’s People’s Liberation Army four days before the election, on Oct. 30, 2020, and then again on Jan. 8, to assure him no attack would be launched — and, if there were to be an attack, that Milley would alert his counterpart in advance.”

Then analyzes embellished allegations:
“could subject Milley to a possible court martial for usurping the authority of the commander in chief under Article II of the Constitution.”
“Milley would not have the authority to countermand the commander in chief.”
“If Milley felt Trump was no longer capable of exercising his authority as commander in chief, then he had a duty to raise Trump’s removal — not to unilaterally assume the powers of commander in chief.”
“Milley is not allowed to create a second option. There is no license for improvisation in the Constitution on this question.”
none of these things are even alleged to have happened, which is par for the course for Turley and why he is viewed as such a hack by everybody outside Trumpworld.

I agree when he says “Yet such concerns — even if held in good faith — would not justify what is claimed by [Turley and grandvol]…” but what’s alleged by Woodward and Costa seems far more mundane than that. The promise is problematic but needs more facts. He’s apparently scheduled to testify on Sept. 28 I’m sure that will be useless, but it’d be nice if somebody actually grilled his ass the way Romney did with Blinken.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

 

[lukeneyland]

That's certainly your right. I'm unimpressed with bravado and chest thumping. It makes for flashy headlines but it's useless when fists start flying. It's beneath America to get into twittter pissing contests.

I generally agree. I loathe Twitter and have never had one. Unfortunately most of the country doesn’t seem to think like that, and that is how a huge portion of this country gets it’s “information”. I guess that’s why he used it.

 

[volfanhill]

I generally agree. I loathe Twitter and have never had one. Unfortunately most of the country doesn’t seem to think like that, and that is how a huge portion of this country gets it’s “information”. I guess that’s why he used it.

It's not that he used Twitter. It's what he said and how he represented himself and us. Twitter wasn't the problem.

 

[AM64]

It's not that he used Twitter. It's what he said and how he represented himself and us. Twitter wasn't the problem.

Hard to say that Trump on twitter was a poorer at wording a message or less honest; he just had a penchant for not passing the message you want, he hurt feelings, and he was glib.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Hard to say that Trump on twitter was a poorer at wording a message or less honest; he just had a penchant for not passing the message you want, he hurt feelings, and he was glib.

Anyways, the Taliban gets to stay on twitter to spread all the hate they can dream up.
It's fine & dandy when american big tech sides with the enemy & let them dictate the rules.

 

[volfanhill]

Hard to say that Trump on twitter was a poorer at wording a message or less honest; he just had a penchant for not passing the message you want, he hurt feelings, and he was glib.

Good god it's not hurt feelings. When you say that you sound as dumb as someone saying Trump said drink bleach. Be honest.

 

[lukeneyland]

It's not that he used Twitter. It's what he said and how he represented himself and us. Twitter wasn't the problem.

What else is there to say. These people have been threatening to kill us and the South Koreans for as long as I’ve been alive. It’s good that he stood up publicly. Now if you want to criticize other crap he’s said on Twitter then you are probably correct in doing so.

 

[volfanhill]

What else is there to say. These people have been threatening to kill us and the South Koreans for as long as I’ve been alive. It’s good that he stood up publicly. Now if you want to criticize other crap he’s said on Twitter then you are probably correct in doing so.

I did not realize you were only addressing the NK stuff. I apologize

 

[Grand Vol]

It’s an opinion piece by Jonathon Turley () that does the exact same thing you’re doing.

States the allegations plainly:
“Milley stressed the ‘process’…”
“They claim Milley called Gen. Li Zuocheng of China’s People’s Liberation Army four days before the election, on Oct. 30, 2020, and then again on Jan. 8, to assure him no attack would be launched — and, if there were to be an attack, that Milley would alert his counterpart in advance.”

Then analyzes embellished allegations:
“could subject Milley to a possible court martial for usurping the authority of the commander in chief under Article II of the Constitution.”
“Milley would not have the authority to countermand the commander in chief.”
“If Milley felt Trump was no longer capable of exercising his authority as commander in chief, then he had a duty to raise Trump’s removal — not to unilaterally assume the powers of commander in chief.”
“Milley is not allowed to create a second option. There is no license for improvisation in the Constitution on this question.”
none of these things are even alleged to have happened, which is par for the course for Turley and why he is viewed as such a hack by everybody outside Trumpworld.

I agree when he says “Yet such concerns — even if held in good faith — would not justify what is claimed by [Turley and grandvol]…” but what’s alleged by Woodward and Costa seems far more mundane than that. The promise is problematic but needs more facts. He’s apparently scheduled to testify on Sept. 28 I’m sure that will be useless, but it’d be nice if somebody actually grilled his ass the way Romney did with Blinken.

That "opinion" was based on news already out there:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/14/peril-woodward-costa-trump-milley-china/

Need me to do more homework in clicking on the links in the Hill article?

ETA: I hope you realize that's that WaPo. Not exactly the bastion of conservative thought. Don't go into douche mode when you've been reasonable so far.

 

[AM64]

Good god it's not hurt feelings. When you say that you sound as dumb as someone saying Trump said drink bleach. Be honest.

Trump's communication style (if you can call it that) was often abysmal - perhaps we can agree on that point. However, the real point is why China and others feel free to talk tough and act aggressively now that we have a marshmallow in chief. Because we don't have somebody willing to talk tough and to act decisively maybe? Do you think a country that sees us as strong is a less safe adversary than one that sees us as weak? If so, then why is China feeing it's oats right now? I doubt that anybody facing the animosity Trump faced even before taking office would have completed the term without having to rely on Depends for underwear. And for the record, I don't like Trump and never have, but I do at least have respect for some of the things he did accomplish; and it's been a very long time since I could say that about a president - and I have seen more of them than you.

 

[RockyTop85]

That "opinion" was based on news already out there:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/14/peril-woodward-costa-trump-milley-china/

Need me to do more homework in clicking on the links in the Hill article?

ETA: I hope you realize that's that WaPo. Not exactly the bastion of conservative thought. Don't go into douche mode when you've been reasonable so far.

This is the exact same allegation of fact:
“General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay,” Milley told him. “We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you.”

“In the second call, placed to address Chinese fears about the events of Jan. 6, Li wasn’t as easily assuaged, even after Milley promised him, “We are 100 percent steady. Everything’s fine. But democracy can be sloppy sometimes.”

Says nothing about him promising to get others to not follow orders.

I assume “don’t go into douche mode” = “just let me make things up without calling me on my ********?” No thanks.

Maybe you should do more homework so you stop sounding like an idiot.

 

[Grand Vol]

This is the exact same allegation of fact:
“General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay,” Milley told him. “We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you.”

“In the second call, placed to address Chinese fears about the events of Jan. 6, Li wasn’t as easily assuaged, even after Milley promised him, “We are 100 percent steady. Everything’s fine. But democracy can be sloppy sometimes.”

Says nothing about him promising to get others to not follow orders.

I assume “don’t go into douche mode” = “just let me make things up without calling me on my ********?” No thanks.

Maybe you should do more homework so you stop sounding like an idiot.

You know what? You ****ing asked for the link of what I said before. I've now provided you two ****ing links of exactly what I said the claims were IN THE ****ING BOOK.

Milley also summoned senior officers to review the procedures for launching nuclear weapons, saying the president alone could give the order — but, crucially, that he, Milley, also had to be involved. Looking each in the eye, Milley asked the officers to affirm that they had understood, the authors write, in what he considered an “oath.”

Implying he wanted them to not follow orders unless he was directly involved with the decision.

Stop being a dick. You were doing so well before now.

 

[zeppelin128]

Funny that this book is truth, but all the other books are not truth.

 

[BreatheUT]

I couldn’t disagree more. We’ve ignored them for decades and as a result they have become more capable of hurting us and South Korea ( in my opinion one of our few allies actually worth being called such). At some point a generation of Americans will likely have to address North Korea. Trumps agrees rhetoric with North Korea should be balanced against the conciliatory nature that he displayed by actually meeting Kim ( twice I believe?). The likely fact has been and probably will remain, that until North Korea is sufficiently convinced of America’s resolve to destroy them if need be, that they will continue on the threatening path that they have been on.

It's embarassing how many good posts we miss when the thread starts to get long and people are embedding sources that can be read.

Good post.