The very stable genius had to be sequestered from nukes

#151
#151
lawgator1 said:
A lot has to do with 1) context then and 2) how it is characterized now.

As to # 1, context at the time, the Chinese were genuinely and gravely worried that Trump would in a fit of egomaniacal rage launch an attack on them. Given that Trump was desperate at the time to delegitimize the election and Biden, and given that he bought into the far right conspiracy theories from his fanbase on this, it is not that far fetched that the Chinese would be concerned that Trump would attack them and use that to try to bootstrap in an argument that the election result was indeed flawed.

Evidently Milley saw this concern as not unfounded and, witnessing Trump firsthand, thought he needed to both reassure the Chinese and make sure that the people in the process did not yield to pressure from Trump calling on them to do something stupid militarily, and outside normal process. Recall, Trump in his state of anxiousness was showing a lot of willingness at the time to go outside the process for a lot of things. Again, in context, this was reasonable.

As to # 2, how it is characterized now, Milley is now viewed by the Trump cult as the ultimate traitor. From inside the administration he has confirmed the worst suspicions and concerns about Trump, which is a reflection on the rest of the Trump cult and the GOP as they are now fully coopted by him. Milley has confirmed that Trump is not fit to be President. And so despite the gravity of the situation their response is, not surprisingly, to lash out at the Milley as having done something wrong by acknowleding now what really occurred then.

And so calling the Chinese and reassuring them that things were under control and the regular processes were in place has turned into characterizing it as Milley promised to give them advance warning of any attack. It is very hard to believe it was exactly as the Trump cult is now spinning it for their attack on Milley. So we really need to know exactly what he said to calm their fears and reduce tensions. For example did he merely say that the controls were in place? Did he say that if there was cause for concern he would convene the principles and try to address it? Did he say he wanted to keep open a channel for deescalation?



The bottom line is this. For the upteenth time a former Trump official or associate has told the truth. And for the upteenth time he has been attacked as deserving to go to jail for daring to tell the truth. Regardless of the specifics of each of these instances, there is a pattern here that ought to signal to the cult members that, hey, maybe there is something to this complaint that Trump has no business being anywhere near 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and is better left to be the carnival barker he is and to just be used generate some funding for GOP causes.
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If you genuinely think the US was fixing to attack China, then I feel sorry for you. If you think China fears a US attack, then you know nothing about the current Chinese government. If you think the Chinese view a US general reaching out to them as anything but weakness, then you are naive. Yes, several former Trump administration officials expressed "concerns" but nearly all of them were politically motivated not some righteous whistle blowers saving the nation.
 
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#152
#152
landscapingvol said:
You tell me, what would be the problem with a very high ranking member of the US military calling an adversary and discussing possible military action towards it? In virtually everyone's book, outside of yours and progressives, it would be considered treason.
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That’s not unequivocally true.

If the situation was that they were concerned about a specific troop movement or activity from our military in a region of the world and/or reporting or rhetoric about things that were going on here and he calls to talk them down to make sure they don’t strike our forces pre-emotively over a misunderstanding, I don’t think anybody rational would call that treason. I don’t even know that Milley needs anybody’s permission to make that call.

I think it’s plausible that he overstepped. It’s also plausible that a bunch of people are armchair quarterbacking something they don’t understand and don’t have full information on.
 
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#153
#153
lawgator1 said:
A lot has to do with 1) context then and 2) how it is characterized now.

As to # 1, context at the time, the Chinese were genuinely and gravely worried that Trump would in a fit of egomaniacal rage launch an attack on them. Given that Trump was desperate at the time to delegitimize the election and Biden, and given that he bought into the far right conspiracy theories from his fanbase on this, it is not that far fetched that the Chinese would be concerned that Trump would attack them and use that to try to bootstrap in an argument that the election result was indeed flawed.

Evidently Milley saw this concern as not unfounded and, witnessing Trump firsthand, thought he needed to both reassure the Chinese and make sure that the people in the process did not yield to pressure from Trump calling on them to do something stupid militarily, and outside normal process. Recall, Trump in his state of anxiousness was showing a lot of willingness at the time to go outside the process for a lot of things. Again, in context, this was reasonable.

As to # 2, how it is characterized now, Milley is now viewed by the Trump cult as the ultimate traitor. From inside the administration he has confirmed the worst suspicions and concerns about Trump, which is a reflection on the rest of the Trump cult and the GOP as they are now fully coopted by him. Milley has confirmed that Trump is not fit to be President. And so despite the gravity of the situation their response is, not surprisingly, to lash out at the Milley as having done something wrong by acknowleding now what really occurred then.

And so calling the Chinese and reassuring them that things were under control and the regular processes were in place has turned into characterizing it as Milley promised to give them advance warning of any attack. It is very hard to believe it was exactly as the Trump cult is now spinning it for their attack on Milley. So we really need to know exactly what he said to calm their fears and reduce tensions. For example did he merely say that the controls were in place? Did he say that if there was cause for concern he would convene the principles and try to address it? Did he say he wanted to keep open a channel for deescalation?



The bottom line is this. For the upteenth time a former Trump official or associate has told the truth. And for the upteenth time he has been attacked as deserving to go to jail for daring to tell the truth. Regardless of the specifics of each of these instances, there is a pattern here that ought to signal to the cult members that, hey, maybe there is something to this complaint that Trump has no business being anywhere near 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and is better left to be the carnival barker he is and to just be used generate some funding for GOP causes.
Click to expand...

Again, if any of this is actually accurate, I believe the conversation with General Li when he told him he would warn of any attack was attributed to a conversation in October 2020.
 
#155
#155
Septic said:
I heard it reported that it was at the direction of Esper in order to "turn down the temperature" so that small conflict didn't escalate.
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If Milley’s actions were under the direction of Esper, then I’m in agreement. Although he is the highest ranking member of the armed forces, Milleyis not in “command.” If the Trump appointed civilian secretary of defense asked him to do it, that would validate his actions. If he acted alone, that’s a problem.
 
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#156
#156
RockyTop85 said:
That’s not unequivocally true.

If the situation was that they were concerned about a specific troop movement or activity from our military in a region of the world and/or reporting or rhetoric about things that were going on here and he calls to talk them down to make sure they don’t strike our forces pre-emotively over a misunderstanding, I don’t think anybody rational would call that treason. I don’t even know that Milley needs anybody’s permission to make that call.

I think it’s plausible that he overstepped. It’s also plausible that a bunch of people are armchair quarterbacking something they don’t understand and don’t have full information on.
Click to expand...

I have enough information to know that Trump never escalated military involvement with another nation other existing conflicts. I know that Bob Woodward in interested in selling books. I know that the Ukraine hearings were a political circus and that we were being "saved from Trump" then as well. I know that he left office in January without having to be pried from the door with a hammer. Here is what I don't know, but I am being told that I should believe: Trump is a maniac, he is a war monger, he is in bed with Russia, and apparently he wanted to launch nuclear war with China. None of his actions in office suggest he was anything other than an attention whore with a Twitter account. He never invaded anyone or went soft on Russia militarily. Based off of what I know, this is nonsense like the other 99% of allegations that have been thrown at him.
 
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#157
#157
Septic said:
I heard it reported that it was at the direction of Esper in order to "turn down the temperature" so that small conflict didn't escalate.
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Esper also got fired for keeping troops in Syria against Trump's orders.

Not sure I'd be placing my moral compass on that kinda guy.
 
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#158
#158
Grand Vol said:
Esper also got fired for keeping troops in Syria against Trump's orders.

Not sure I'd be placing my moral compass on that kinda guy.
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This is the crux of it all, the military complex wants their endless wars and Trump didn't support them therefore he "had" to go.
 
#160
#160
landscapingvol said:
I have enough information to know that Trump never escalated military involvement with another nation other existing conflicts. I know that Bob Woodward in interested in selling books. I know that the Ukraine hearings were a political circus and that we were being "saved from Trump" then as well. I know that he left office in January without having to be pried from the door with a hammer. Here is what I don't know, but I am being told that I should believe: Trump is a maniac, he is a war monger, he is in bed with Russia, and apparently he wanted to launch nuclear war with China. None of his actions in office suggest he was anything other than an attention whore with a Twitter account. He never invaded anyone or went soft on Russia militarily. Based off of what I know, this is nonsense like the other 99% of allegations that have been thrown at him.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the calls were 100% consistent with US policy, then.
 
#162
#162
landscapingvol said:
I have enough information to know that Trump never escalated military involvement with another nation other existing conflicts. I know that Bob Woodward in interested in selling books. I know that the Ukraine hearings were a political circus and that we were being "saved from Trump" then as well. I know that he left office in January without having to be pried from the door with a hammer. Here is what I don't know, but I am being told that I should believe: Trump is a maniac, he is a war monger, he is in bed with Russia, and apparently he wanted to launch nuclear war with China. None of his actions in office suggest he was anything other than an attention whore with a Twitter account. He never invaded anyone or went soft on Russia militarily. Based off of what I know, this is nonsense like the other 99% of allegations that have been thrown at him.
Click to expand...

You are an insider?
 
#163
#163
lawgator1 said:
A lot has to do with 1) context then and 2) how it is characterized now.

As to # 1, context at the time, the Chinese were genuinely and gravely worried that Trump would in a fit of egomaniacal rage launch an attack on them. Given that Trump was desperate at the time to delegitimize the election and Biden, and given that he bought into the far right conspiracy theories from his fanbase on this, it is not that far fetched that the Chinese would be concerned that Trump would attack them and use that to try to bootstrap in an argument that the election result was indeed flawed.

Evidently Milley saw this concern as not unfounded and, witnessing Trump firsthand, thought he needed to both reassure the Chinese and make sure that the people in the process did not yield to pressure from Trump calling on them to do something stupid militarily, and outside normal process. Recall, Trump in his state of anxiousness was showing a lot of willingness at the time to go outside the process for a lot of things. Again, in context, this was reasonable.

As to # 2, how it is characterized now, Milley is now viewed by the Trump cult as the ultimate traitor. From inside the administration he has confirmed the worst suspicions and concerns about Trump, which is a reflection on the rest of the Trump cult and the GOP as they are now fully coopted by him. Milley has confirmed that Trump is not fit to be President. And so despite the gravity of the situation their response is, not surprisingly, to lash out at the Milley as having done something wrong by acknowleding now what really occurred then.

And so calling the Chinese and reassuring them that things were under control and the regular processes were in place has turned into characterizing it as Milley promised to give them advance warning of any attack. It is very hard to believe it was exactly as the Trump cult is now spinning it for their attack on Milley. So we really need to know exactly what he said to calm their fears and reduce tensions. For example did he merely say that the controls were in place? Did he say that if there was cause for concern he would convene the principles and try to address it? Did he say he wanted to keep open a channel for deescalation?



The bottom line is this. For the upteenth time a former Trump official or associate has told the truth. And for the upteenth time he has been attacked as deserving to go to jail for daring to tell the truth. Regardless of the specifics of each of these instances, there is a pattern here that ought to signal to the cult members that, hey, maybe there is something to this complaint that Trump has no business being anywhere near 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and is better left to be the carnival barker he is and to just be used generate some funding for GOP causes.
Click to expand...

Lol
 
#168
#168
Septic said:
Interesting that you say that since many on this forum have determined Joe to be mentally unfit based on sound bites and video clips. Milley worked directly with Donny, didn't he?

I wonder if the same people grousing about Milley would have a problem if one of Joe's top military commanders did the same thing if Joe went off the rails.
Click to expand...
Milley is still one of Joe's commanders, and if I was Joe I'd be concerned. Did Milley contact someone in the Taliban and give them a heads up on what our troops would be doing at the airport, giving ISIS the opportunity to send a suicide bomber, thus severely damaging the Biden Administration's confidence by the people?
 
#169
#169
lawgator1 said:
A lot has to do with 1) context then and 2) how it is characterized now.

As to # 1, context at the time, the Chinese were genuinely and gravely worried that Trump would in a fit of egomaniacal rage launch an attack on them. Given that Trump was desperate at the time to delegitimize the election and Biden, and given that he bought into the far right conspiracy theories from his fanbase on this, it is not that far fetched that the Chinese would be concerned that Trump would attack them and use that to try to bootstrap in an argument that the election result was indeed flawed.

Evidently Milley saw this concern as not unfounded and, witnessing Trump firsthand, thought he needed to both reassure the Chinese and make sure that the people in the process did not yield to pressure from Trump calling on them to do something stupid militarily, and outside normal process. Recall, Trump in his state of anxiousness was showing a lot of willingness at the time to go outside the process for a lot of things. Again, in context, this was reasonable.

As to # 2, how it is characterized now, Milley is now viewed by the Trump cult as the ultimate traitor. From inside the administration he has confirmed the worst suspicions and concerns about Trump, which is a reflection on the rest of the Trump cult and the GOP as they are now fully coopted by him. Milley has confirmed that Trump is not fit to be President. And so despite the gravity of the situation their response is, not surprisingly, to lash out at the Milley as having done something wrong by acknowleding now what really occurred then.

And so calling the Chinese and reassuring them that things were under control and the regular processes were in place has turned into characterizing it as Milley promised to give them advance warning of any attack. It is very hard to believe it was exactly as the Trump cult is now spinning it for their attack on Milley. So we really need to know exactly what he said to calm their fears and reduce tensions. For example did he merely say that the controls were in place? Did he say that if there was cause for concern he would convene the principles and try to address it? Did he say he wanted to keep open a channel for deescalation?



The bottom line is this. For the upteenth time a former Trump official or associate has told the truth. And for the upteenth time he has been attacked as deserving to go to jail for daring to tell the truth. Regardless of the specifics of each of these instances, there is a pattern here that ought to signal to the cult members that, hey, maybe there is something to this complaint that Trump has no business being anywhere near 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and is better left to be the carnival barker he is and to just be used generate some funding for GOP causes.
Click to expand...
STate Department should have handled, legally, not the military, illegally (no orders)...... or John Kerry
 
#170
#170
#175
#175
Grand Vol said:
Esper also got fired for keeping troops in Syria against Trump's orders.

Not sure I'd be placing my moral compass on that kinda guy.
Click to expand...

Esper and Trump were at odds long before that, I recall Esper digging his feet in on not allowing Trump to use active duty military personnel to intervene in protesting. Lots of tumult in their relationship.

A any rate, if Miley made the call at the behest of Esper and isn't being portrayed accurately by Woodward then this is a nothing burger.
 
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