The whole black coach issue

[Orange_Crush]

I understand where you going with that... But if the police is payed to watch me not you..

Who do you think will get arrested the most?

But you said whites were arrested most... :/

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

Some folks just like to ignore facts, Crush.. Let them bask in their ignorance.

Total miss of the point! Peel off that thin epidermis and we are all the same!

 

[82_VOL_83]

I respectfully agree to disagree. :hi: Please understand:

No "turmoil" on my end. I was just asking for you to give some backing to the claims that you made that seem obviously inconsistent. On one hand, you made the argument that white-extreme groups hide their membership very well and so we can't know the associations well enough to form statistics, then immediately referred to some "common knowledge" about extreme group activity in our law enforcement community, universities, legal system, etc...

It's a bit of a self-defeating argument (edit: while also being a conveniently non-falsifiable claim).

I am not blind by choice. I am merely seeking an objective view of the situation. If you knew me, you would know how blatantly not-racist I am.

With all that said, I'll say again: I haven't walked a day in your shoes, so won't begrudge your perspective. Good day, and God bless.

:hi:

And second edit, sorry: I wasn't saying there aren't "some" bad egg/racists in those communities. I was asking for proof that it is wide-spread enough to blame the prison population statistics on. That was the original context of this part of the discussion, so to connect "some" bad eggs to a national statistic is a huge jump.

Feeling it yet Crush? :banghead2::banghead2::banghead2:

 

[82_VOL_83]

You know what's kind of racist? Back when Chris Loften was an All American and most of the local sports radio calls were about some white guy on the team who averaged 2 points a game.

Trust me, Knoxville needs all the diversity it can get.

Sorry Oregon, I was here during Chris' tenure.....You are exaggerating something that isn't true to begin with to make a point. I listened to the only channel here in Knoxville that you could consider a sports call in show quite a bit and not once did I ever get that feeling, ever.

 

[82_VOL_83]

UT got a great coach. Can we just end this already? lol

hyp

 

[82_VOL_83]

I understand where you going with that... But if the police is payed to watch me not you..

Who do you think will get arrested the most?

Depends on what you are doing and what I am doing. If you aren't doing anything that would get you arrested, you don't need to worry about it. You make it sound like you get arrested for breathing......I would be willing to bet that you don't.

 

[BaldBiker]

John Belushi gets up at the frat house and gives an emotional, rousing speech, and he spoke about not giving up. He said something like....."Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" One of the frat brothers says to another...."Germans? I thought it was the Japs." The other frat brother says...."Don't stop him. He's on a roll." It's a common joke from years ago. I feel sure that it's on youtube.

One of the greatest movies ever made. Full of thought provoking statements.

Otis! My man! :good!:

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Total miss of the point! Peel off that thin epidermis and we are all the same!

Scores of blacks throughout American History would have loved to "peel off that thin epidermis". If only it was that easy.

 

[k-town_king]

Depends on what you are doing and what I am doing. If you aren't doing anything that would get you arrested, you don't need to worry about it. You make it sound like you get arrested for breathing......I would be willing to bet that you don't.

Even though this forum isn't the place for this its true. Black people get arrested and harassed for being Black. 85% of drug users are White but 87% of people incarcerated for drugs are Black. That is because of institutionalized racism. Being Black you get pulled over for no seat belt or driving five miles over the speed limit. Stuff they don't pull over White people for. Then they use those as an excuse to harass and search Black people. Not to mention all the other excuses they use to pull Black people over to try to find something incriminating .

 

[Orange_Crush]

Depends on what you are doing and what I am doing. If you aren't doing anything that would get you arrested, you don't need to worry about it. You make it sound like you get arrested for breathing......I would be willing to bet that you don't.

I am so hesitant to keep this thread going, and am posting this against my better judgment, but:

Nothing in this thread has been presented that proves or gives indication that police forces are chartered to "watch" people of color above and beyond anyone else they "watch". It is, as of now, a baseless accusation and nothing else-- much like many other ideas that have been presented to support ideals and arguments (read: nazi infiltration of the police force, legal system, etc at a high enough rate to account for prison statistics).

My brother is a police officer. Because of that, many of my city's police force are my friends (officers of many different races). They would be VERY surprised and disturbed to find that their municipal employer is chartered to "watch" people of color, and that their daily debriefings consist of that goal.

To a person/officer, they serve far more people than they are given credit for. They check in on the elderly that live alone. They protect women from abusive homes. And yes, they protect entire communities from criminal elements, whether those communities are predominately, white, black, Hispanic or Asian; and whether the suspected criminal is white, black, Hispanic or Asian.

To spout baseless accusations of widespread racism without evidence is irresponsible, maligning and racist in and of itself.

:hi:

So, as this will be my final post on this subject, I feel that I need to clarify my position-- especially considering that it has been stated that I am willingly blind, and possibly inferred that this is because I am racist. Here is my position:

If there truly is a widespread conspiracy of racist abuse of power in our government infrastructure, then it needs to be exposed, and the hammer needs to fall on the perpetrators. Here-to-for, I have seen no objective evidence that this is the case.

If there is no widespread conspiracy of racism in our government infrastructure, creating the perception of one is wrong on more than one level. The not-so-obvious consequence is that it creates a victim mentality and diverts energy away from what can actually help the plight of those involved.

If, as statistics indicate, the underlying reasons are cultural (education, gang affiliation, "gangsta/crime lifestyle", etc...) then fixating on a conspiracy that doesn't exist takes energy and attention away from fixing the cultural issues that cause the lack of success in society. As a matter of fact, it perpetrates an "us and them" mentality that reinforces the damaging cultural elements.



In either event (conspiracy verses cultural issues), my desire is to see the energy spent in such a way that the causes of all races are promoted in our society. My desire is for those statistics to change.

Since I will not post on this subject again, my prayer is that I have communicated my views in such a way that people can see my heart on the matter. Good day and God bless each of you who may read this. (Every one of you.)

 

[k-town_king]

I am so hesitant to keep this thread going, and am posting this against my better judgment, but:

Nothing in this thread has been presented that proves or gives indication that police forces are chartered to "watch" people of color above and beyond anyone else they "watch". It is, as of now, a baseless accusation and nothing else-- much like many other ideas that have been presented to support ideals and arguments (read: nazi infiltration of the police force, legal system, etc at a high enough rate to account for prison statistics).

My brother is a police officer. Because of that, many of my city's police force are my friends (officers of many different races). They would be VERY surprised and disturbed to find that their municipal employer is chartered to "watch" people of color, and that their daily debriefings consist of that goal.

To a person/officer, they serve far more people than they are given credit for. They check in on the elderly that live alone. They protect women from abusive homes. And yes, they protect entire communities from criminal elements, whether those communities are predominately, white, black, Hispanic or Asian; and whether the suspected criminal is white, black, Hispanic or Asian.

To spout baseless accusations of widespread racism without evidence is irresponsible, maligning and racist in and of itself.

:hi:

So, as this will be my final post on this subject, I feel that I need to clarify my position-- especially considering that it has been stated that I am willingly blind, and possibly inferred that this is because I am racist. Here is my position:

If there truly is a widespread conspiracy of racist abuse of power in our government infrastructure, then it needs to be exposed, and the hammer needs to fall on the perpetrators. Here-to-for, I have seen no objective evidence that this is the case.

If there is no widespread conspiracy of racism in our government infrastructure, creating the perception of one is wrong on more than one level. The not-so-obvious consequence is that it creates a victim mentality and diverts energy away from what can actually help the plight of those involved.

If, as statistics indicate, the underlying reasons are cultural (education, gang affiliation, "gangsta/crime lifestyle", etc...) then fixating on a conspiracy that doesn't exist takes energy and attention away from fixing the cultural issues that cause the lack of success in society. As a matter of fact, it perpetrates an "us and them" mentality that reinforces the damaging cultural elements.



In either event (conspiracy verses cultural issues), my desire is to see the energy spent in such a way that the causes of all races are promoted in our society. My desire is for those statistics to change.

Since I will not post on this subject again, my prayer is that I have communicated my views in such a way that people can see my heart on the matter. Good day and God bless each of you who may read this. (Every one of you.)

You are choosing to ignore the statistics that show the racism. 85% of drug users are White but 87% percent of people prosecuted for drugs are Black. Most Black people in jail are there for drug related offenses. You have no argument. There is an easy to see system to prosecute an imprison people of color .

 

[1972 Grad]

You are choosing to ignore the statistics that show the racism. 85% of drug users are White but 87% percent of people prosecuted for drugs are Black. Most Black people in jail are there for drug related offenses. You have no argument. There is an easy to see system to prosecute an imprison people of color .

Are they prosecuted for using or for selling? Are they caught with drugs while they were doing something else ?

 

[KBVol]

um, because I live in Knoxville? And there were far more calls about Dane Bradshaw's performance/playing time in 2007 than there calls about anything to do with Lofton (Heck, wasn't Bradshaw named one of the top 20 UT basketball players all time? A guy who averaged 4.8 points per game? But, I'm sure race had nothing to do with that).

That said, I don't really believe Knoxville is overtly racist. It's just very very white. It's certainly the whitest place I've ever lived. And given that most football players are black and this town is so white, a diverse coaching staff can only be a good thing.

Got no problem whatsoever with a diverse staff, just not for the sake of diversity alone. And define diversity by the way. Diversity of experience or just diversity of skin color? I hate just doing the quick head count of who looks like what and then saying we're good cause we have enough black guys, Latino guys, whatever. Honest to God, if every single coach in Knoxville were black and the program(s) was up to and exceeding expectations, maybe winning a championship or 2, the vast majority of fans, like me, wouldn't give a rats arse. We wanted to run Dools and Sunseri out of town and we were desperate to keep Jay Graham and happy as hell to see Coach Thig join the staff. I know that Cuonzos staff is majority black but that doesn't even remotely cross my mind- I want to see him recruit a point guard, develop Stokes, run a freaking zone every now and then and win 20-25 games... That's it. As for the Lofton-Bradshaw debate, I guess we had different experiences. I heard Bradshaw heralded his sr year cause he was a glue guy for the team, played every position from point forward to center when they needed someone to guard the post and never complained. He also provided not good but great leadership on a team that started the rebirth of our basketball program. But, all I remember was everyone, including me, marveling at UTs best player, Lofton, because of his unbelievable shooting and his uncanny ability to come through in the clutch. Knoxville was part of my sales territory during the Pearl era and that's what I remember the most from listening primarily to the Sports Animal. I just don't see things from the race angle like you seem to. Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, just telling you what I saw and heard.... and believe.

 

[oregonvol]

Got no problem whatsoever with a diverse staff, just not for the sake of diversity alone. And define diversity by the way. Diversity of experience or just diversity of skin color? I hate just doing the quick head count of who looks like what and then saying we're good cause we have enough black guys, Latino guys, whatever. Honest to God, if every single coach in Knoxville were black and the program(s) was up to and exceeding expectations, maybe winning a championship or 2, the vast majority of fans, like me, wouldn't give a rats arse. We wanted to run Dools and Sunseri out of town and we were desperate to keep Jay Graham and happy as hell to see Coach Thig join the staff. I know that Cuonzos staff is majority black but that doesn't even remotely cross my mind- I want to see him recruit a point guard, develop Stokes, run a freaking zone every now and then and win 20-25 games... That's it. As for the Lofton-Bradshaw debate, I guess we had different experiences. I heard Bradshaw heralded his sr year cause he was a glue guy for the team, played every position from point forward to center when they needed someone to guard the post and never complained. He also provided not good but great leadership on a team that started the rebirth of our basketball program. But, all I remember was everyone, including me, marveling at UTs best player, Lofton, because of his unbelievable shooting and his uncanny ability to come through in the clutch. Knoxville was part of my sales territory during the Pearl era and that's what I remember the most from listening primarily to the Sports Animal. I just don't see things from the race angle like you seem to. Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, just telling you what I saw and heard.... and believe.

I don't think anyone is saying that we should have diversity simply for the sake of diversity. But when you have the least number of black coaches in the conference on your staff and you are finishing 11th in recruiting in the SEC, you have to consider ways to address this. The fact remains that the majority of college football players are black. Knoxville is probably the whitest town in the SEC. Would that matter if we lived in a color blind society? No. But we don't live in a color blind society, do we?

So, you have to consider that black players may feel more comfortable with having at least a few black coaches. Doesn't mean you just get any black coach. But you have to consider their background and how they relate to players when hiring them.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I am so hesitant to keep this thread going, and am posting this against my better judgment, but:

Nothing in this thread has been presented that proves or gives indication that police forces are chartered to "watch" people of color above and beyond anyone else they "watch". It is, as of now, a baseless accusation and nothing else-- much like many other ideas that have been presented to support ideals and arguments (read: nazi infiltration of the police force, legal system, etc at a high enough rate to account for prison statistics).

My brother is a police officer. Because of that, many of my city's police force are my friends (officers of many different races). They would be VERY surprised and disturbed to find that their municipal employer is chartered to "watch" people of color, and that their daily debriefings consist of that goal.

To a person/officer, they serve far more people than they are given credit for. They check in on the elderly that live alone. They protect women from abusive homes. And yes, they protect entire communities from criminal elements, whether those communities are predominately, white, black, Hispanic or Asian; and whether the suspected criminal is white, black, Hispanic or Asian.

To spout baseless accusations of widespread racism without evidence is irresponsible, maligning and racist in and of itself.

:hi:

So, as this will be my final post on this subject, I feel that I need to clarify my position-- especially considering that it has been stated that I am willingly blind, and possibly inferred that this is because I am racist. Here is my position:

If there truly is a widespread conspiracy of racist abuse of power in our government infrastructure, then it needs to be exposed, and the hammer needs to fall on the perpetrators. Here-to-for, I have seen no objective evidence that this is the case.

If there is no widespread conspiracy of racism in our government infrastructure, creating the perception of one is wrong on more than one level. The not-so-obvious consequence is that it creates a victim mentality and diverts energy away from what can actually help the plight of those involved.

If, as statistics indicate, the underlying reasons are cultural (education, gang affiliation, "gangsta/crime lifestyle", etc...) then fixating on a conspiracy that doesn't exist takes energy and attention away from fixing the cultural issues that cause the lack of success in society. As a matter of fact, it perpetrates an "us and them" mentality that reinforces the damaging cultural elements.



In either event (conspiracy verses cultural issues), my desire is to see the energy spent in such a way that the causes of all races are promoted in our society. My desire is for those statistics to change.

Since I will not post on this subject again, my prayer is that I have communicated my views in such a way that people can see my heart on the matter. Good day and God bless each of you who may read this. (Every one of you.)

Then all I have to say is quote the correct post. Me thinks you got the wrong one.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Are they prosecuted for using or for selling? Are they caught with drugs while they were doing something else ?

Don't toke and tote.....pretty simple.

 

[82_VOL_83]

You know what's kind of racist? Back when Chris Loften was an All American and most of the local sports radio calls were about some white guy on the team who averaged 2 points a game.

Trust me, Knoxville needs all the diversity it can get.

I don't think anyone is saying that we should have diversity simply for the sake of diversity. But when you have the least number of black coaches in the conference on your staff and you are finishing 11th in recruiting in the SEC, you have to consider ways to address this. The fact remains that the majority of college football players are black. Knoxville is probably the whitest town in the SEC. Would that matter if we lived in a color blind society? No. But we don't live in a color blind society, do we?

So, you have to consider that black players may feel more comfortable with having at least a few black coaches. Doesn't mean you just get any black coach. But you have to consider their background and how they relate to players when hiring them.

I are one big contradiction. You and Stephen A are like peas and carrots......

 

[oregonvol]

I are one big contradiction. You and Stephen A are like peas and carrots......

No, Knoxville could definitely use more diversity overall. That's true, in my opinion. But I never said that you should just hire any coach because of his skin color though. How are you getting that the two are synonymous?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Got no problem whatsoever with a diverse staff, just not for the sake of diversity alone. And define diversity by the way. Diversity of experience or just diversity of skin color? I hate just doing the quick head count of who looks like what and then saying we're good cause we have enough black guys, Latino guys, whatever. Honest to God, if every single coach in Knoxville were black and the program(s) was up to and exceeding expectations, maybe winning a championship or 2, the vast majority of fans, like me, wouldn't give a rats arse. We wanted to run Dools and Sunseri out of town and we were desperate to keep Jay Graham and happy as hell to see Coach Thig join the staff. I know that Cuonzos staff is majority black but that doesn't even remotely cross my mind- I want to see him recruit a point guard, develop Stokes, run a freaking zone every now and then and win 20-25 games... That's it. As for the Lofton-Bradshaw debate, I guess we had different experiences. I heard Bradshaw heralded his sr year cause he was a glue guy for the team, played every position from point forward to center when they needed someone to guard the post and never complained. He also provided not good but great leadership on a team that started the rebirth of our basketball program. But, all I remember was everyone, including me, marveling at UTs best player, Lofton, because of his unbelievable shooting and his uncanny ability to come through in the clutch. Knoxville was part of my sales territory during the Pearl era and that's what I remember the most from listening primarily to the Sports Animal. I just don't see things from the race angle like you seem to. Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, just telling you what I saw and heard.... and believe.

Also the fact that Bradshaw was viewed as a waste of a scholie under "the Buzz" and then turned into the leader that he was. I guess if you are looking for a racial slant to something, you can always find it. LOL, that is the problem though, too many people both black and white are looking for that racial slant (i.e. "the victim" mentality). The whole racism thing should be renamed victimism. Then those who take responsibility for actions and want to unify our country racially and culturally can be called victimists.

 

[oregonvol]

Also the fact that Bradshaw was viewed as a waste of a scholie under "the Buzz" and then turned into the leader that he was. I guess if you are looking for a racial slant to something, you can always find it. LOL, that is the problem though, too many people both black and white are looking for that racial slant (i.e. "the victim" mentality). The whole racism thing should be renamed victimism. Then those who take responsibility for actions and want to unify our country racially and culturally can be called victimists.

So it's your opinion that Dane Bradshaw would have been voted one of the top 20 UT basketball players of all time if he wasn't white? Really? Based on what?

 

[82_VOL_83]

So it's your opinion that Dane Bradshaw would have been voted one of the top 20 UT basketball players of all time if he wasn't white? Really? Based on what?

You have got a comprehension problem. You need to read what people type and not what you want them to type. Please hi-light where I remotely said that he was in the top 20. I just said he didn't get the freaking excessive coverage that is claimed in this thread and that he proved himself when given a chance under Pearl.

Edited to remove reference to OVol....the diatribe was written by OCrush.

 

[BaldBiker]

No, Knoxville could definitely use more diversity overall. That's true, in my opinion. But I never said that you should just hire any coach because of his skin color though. How are you getting that the two are synonymous?

I just looked up some quick numbers from the 2010 census. Knoxville = 17.1% black or African American. 18.5% if you consider those who claim more than one ethnicity. U.S. average looks to be about 12.6%.

I looked real quick and did not go into a lot of depth, so those numbers may be off some, but I can't see them being so different as to change the facts too much.

In short. What a person sees with their eyes, based off of where they live or hang out, may not be what the actual facts are.

Not bashing you. Just throwing some numbers out there.

 

[oregonvol]

You have got a comprehension problem. You need to read what people type and not what you want them to type. Please hi-light where I remotely said that he was in the top 20. I just said he didn't get the freaking excessive coverage that is claimed in this thread and that he proved himself when given a chance under Pearl.

P.S. Go back and fix your diatribe where you quoted my post. I think you got the wrong one. I was basically agreeing with you and you wrote a novella on it.

huh? what "diatribe"? I don't think I've posted anything longer than like 6 lines in this thread? Please quote my "novella"?

 

[82_VOL_83]

huh? what "diatribe"? I don't think I've posted anything longer than like 6 lines in this thread? Please quote my "novella"?

Yes you are correct, my bad....that was Crush. However, my first paragraph still stands......read what is typed, not what you want to see.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I just looked up some quick numbers from the 2010 census. Knoxville = 17.1% black or African American. 18.5% if you consider those who claim more than one ethnicity. U.S. average looks to be about 12.6%.

I looked real quick and did not go into a lot of depth, so those numbers may be off some, but I can't see them being so different as to change the facts too much.

In short. What a person sees with their eyes, based off of where they live or hang out, may not be what the actual facts are.

Not bashing you. Just throwing some numbers out there.

When your entire life is made up of being subjective (a victim), you can find any number to make anything you say true. We may be "non-black" for the south, but I think Knoxville's hispanic, Indian, and Asian population more than makes up for our "lack" of diversity. The first 5 houses on each side of my neighborhood are: Black/White, Chinese, Indian, Chinese, White, and across the street, Vietnamese, White, White, White, and Black. I think I can honestly say that if you look closely enough at Knoxville and the surrounding areas, you will find we are a VERY diverse group of people.