The you don't want to get involved in this discussion thread (split)

#477
#477
volprof said:
Let me post what I posted in response to SDV on the NCAA forum about this same question:

Assuming you're not just joking, let me answer that question. We live in a society where you're considered heterosexual by default. It's not like you have to go around parading your heterosexuality (although many still do) to feel accepted or to fit in. For gays, their sexuality is obviously a fundamental part of their being, just as your heterosexuality is to you. Difference is, you don't live in a society where your heterosexuality is considered a problem. Of course it's not political for you. It doesn't have to be. But for gays on the other hand...
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bump
 
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#478
#478
This is an issue that will never be resolved. The Bible says one thing, culture says another. It's just another thing long list of items that the two will clash over.
 
#479
#479
Originally Posted by*Vol Karma:
No incorrect. While some chose to be part of the gay lifestyle, most are born that way and have no choice. Still I get your point.

VOLout8 said:
What reason other than a person saying so do you have that someone is born gay? I'm not saying you don't have one. I'm just interested.
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I am also interested in this 'born that way' logic. I agree with another poster above in that most of our lives consist of choices, not innate born that way responses.
 
#480
#480
And honestly that's why I love sports. It's the one place it now seems where this issue isn't rammed down your throat and pushed upon you. Now it's in the Olympics and in everyday sports. Yes I have my thoughts on the issue buys it's not about that. Sports is a retreat for me from everyday life (for all things) and that is seemingly coming to an end.
 
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#481
#481
matts42012 said:
And honestly that's why I love sports. It's the one place it now seems where this issue isn't rammed down your throat and pushed upon you. Now it's in the Olympics and in everyday sports. Yes I have my thoughts on the issue buys it's not about that. Sports is a retreat for me from everyday life (for all things) and that is seemingly coming to an end.
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Well said.
 
#482
#482
fade route said:
You probably don't like our constitution or bill of rights either, cuz they're like really really old pieces of paper.
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Written by logical and educated individuals and the ability to be revised as our values and beliefs change. Much unlike the Bible (which was written long before our country was founded). Good effort though.
 
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#483
#483
Ron Swanson said:
You ever met a gay person? Any gay people in your family? Have any gay friends? I know a few gay people and I'll 100% guarantee you they didn't chose to be gay, they were born that way.

You lost me at fact.
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When I was in the Air Force,one of the purest,spiritual souls was stationed in Germany with me. I tend to believe that his religion was so ingrained in him that his withoutadoubt homosexuality was never acted on...I'm Christian but he was such a better witness than me that I still feel guilt in that department. Point? God doesn't make a man like that and dispose him to make a choice that consigns him to hell...some one day a week prophets are going to be shocked at the company they keep IF they gain admittance to the ultimate kingdom.
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#484
#484
matts42012 said:
And honestly that's why I love sports. It's the one place it now seems where this issue isn't rammed down your throat and pushed upon you. Now it's in the Olympics and in everyday sports. Yes I have my thoughts on the issue buys it's not about that. Sports is a retreat for me from everyday life (for all things) and that is seemingly coming to an end.
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It's about human beings wanting to have equal rights and be accepted as equals. Many of the things said on this topic were also said during the civil rights movement. Not too long ago black people were 2nd class citizens just like gay people are today. Why is that so hard to understand?

I can hear it now, "I wish these blacks didn't shove their blackness in our faces all the time!" - many people in the 1960's.
 
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#485
#485
Ron Swanson said:
It's about human beings wanting to have equal rights and be accepted as equals. Many of the things said on this topic were also said during the civil rights movement. Not too long ago black people were 2nd class citizens just like gay people are today. Why is that so hard to understand?

I can hear it now, "I wish these blacks didn't shove their blackness in our faces all the time!" - many people in the 1960's.
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and guess what book was used to justify slavery and oppression of black people

ding ding ding - the old Holy Bible

they even founded a branch of the protestant church so they could keep their slaves - 1845 the good ol southern baptist convention was started b/c the northern baptist had a crazy notion that a superior race wasnt a good idea
 
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#486
#486
matts42012 said:
And honestly that's why I love sports. It's the one place it now seems where this issue isn't rammed down your throat and pushed upon you. Now it's in the Olympics and in everyday sports. Yes I have my thoughts on the issue buys it's not about that. Sports is a retreat for me from everyday life (for all things) and that is seemingly coming to an end.
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I've only ever heard this phrase used by people who oppose gay rights; you never hear it in ANY other context. Reacting to a football player's courageous decision to come out by complaining that he's "ramming it down your throat" is an interesting Freudian slip that speaks volumes about your underlying homophobia.

Michael Sam has a right to be who he is, and having an openly gay NFL player IS a newsworthy event. Period.
 
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#487
#487
SCvol333 said:
and guess what book was used to justify slavery and oppression of black people

ding ding ding - the old Holy Bible

they even founded a branch of the protestant church so they could keep their slaves - 1845 the good ol southern baptist convention was started b/c the northern baptist had a crazy notion that a superior race wasnt a good idea
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And the bible was also used by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr in many of his speeches.
 
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#488
#488
butchna said:
When I was in the Air Force,one of the purest,spiritual souls was stationed in Germany with me. I tend to believe that his religion was so ingrained in him that his withoutadoubt homosexuality was never acted on...I'm Christian but he was such a better witness than me that I still feel guilt in that department. Point? God doesn't make a man like that and dispose him to make a choice that consigns him to hell...some one day a week prophets are going to be shocked at the company they keep IF they gain admittance to the ultimate kingdom.
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I have to agree Butch. During my time in the Air Force, I have come across many Christians who kept the faith better than I (not that I don't try). They were also homosexual. I tend to judge people by their character and less by their sexual preference. Some of the character of the posters in here is questionable at best. My God believes in loving despite so-called sins, and forgiveness...I would ask you all to do the same.
 
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#489
#489
KnoxVillain said:
Written by logical and educated individuals and the ability to be revised as our values and beliefs change. Much unlike the Bible (which was written long before our country was founded). Good effort though.
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Yes, logical and educated individuals, most of whom in addition to founding the country were Christians who publicly professed their belief and loyalty to Christ and Biblical teachings.

You may think the Bible is some old outdated book that has no relevance to modern society, but consider this: your line of thinking is on the rise in America. Unfortunately, so is the rate of children growing up in fatherless homes, child abuse, drug use, alcohol abuse, addiction to pornography, suicide rates, depression,violence among teens, etc, the list goes on. Coincidence?
 
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#491
#491
Well ESPN just took a poll to ask if the NFL was ready for a gay player. 48 states said yes. Tennessee and Mississippi said no. So there it is.
 
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#492
#492
Darth_Shiveman said:
Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Thirty seconds on google and Wikipedia can find you a plethora of scientific studies that suggest certain biological factors that can presuppose sexual orientation.


These were scientifically conducted studies that can't be debated (and this is just the garbage you can find on Wikipedia--contrasted to what you can find in actual scholarly journals or other publications).

None of this is opinion: it's data that comes from testing. Having a "differing opinion" is selective ignorance.
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No offense but you lose credibility when you state "scientifically conducted studies that can't be debated". Studies and their validity based on how they are designed and powered can and should be debated. Not all "scientific studies" are created equal and anyone who deals with them knows that. Carry on.
 
#493
#493
A real unfortunate byproduct of this issue being front and center is that good fans are pulled into the fray...pro and con...all or most of us have rooted for a gay athlete or entertainer without even knowing about it...when they declare,a portion of fandom has to decide if they can support something they find wrong...another portion feels the need to defend everyone's rights...I'm in the portion that loudly cheers on the player that REALLY ENJOYS those 14 sacks...if they benefit my team....I just hate the Spector of activist groups grading locker rooms...but these days aren't the relatively short time ago of my school days where if you messed up socially,you got labeled a British cigarette...that word is in the same realm as the N word in professional leagues...resume let the debate :focus:
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#494
#494
Ron Swanson said:
It's about human beings wanting to have equal rights and be accepted as equals. Many of the things said on this topic were also said during the civil rights movement. Not too long ago black people were 2nd class citizens just like gay people are today. Why is that so hard to understand?

I can hear it now, "I wish these blacks didn't shove their blackness in our faces all the time!" - many people in the 1960's.
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Comparing oppressed black people before the Civil Rights Movement and homosexuals today is quite a stretch... Maybe if we told gays they had to have their own schools, couldn't vote, couldn't enter the military and so on, that argument might be valid.
 
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#495
#495
fade route said:
Yes, logical and educated individuals, most of whom in addition to founding the country were Christians who publicly professed their belief and loyalty to Christ and Biblical teachings.

You may think the Bible is some old outdated book that has no relevance to modern society, but consider this: your line of thinking is on the rise in America. Unfortunately, so is the rate of children growing up in fatherless homes, child abuse, drug use, alcohol abuse, addiction to pornography, suicide rates, depression,violence among teens, etc, the list goes on. Coincidence?
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1,000,000 % agree
 
#496
#496
Ron Swanson said:
It's about human beings wanting to have equal rights and be accepted as equals. Many of the things said on this topic were also said during the civil rights movement. Not too long ago black people were 2nd class citizens just like gay people are today. Why is that so hard to understand?

I can hear it now, "I wish these blacks didn't shove their blackness in our faces all the time!" - many people in the 1960's.
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Much different situation. Honestly, most people don't give a damn if he's gay or not. The media will make it a big deal, but in reality it's another player, playing football. His sexual preferences have nothing to do with football
 
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#499
#499
fade route said:
Yes, logical and educated individuals, most of whom in addition to founding the country were Christians who publicly professed their belief and loyalty to Christ and Biblical teachings.
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yet knew enough to keep religion out of the laws they wrote. I think you'd be surprised at most of their religious backgrounds if you studied them

fade route said:
You may think the Bible is some old outdated book that has no relevance to modern society, but consider this: your line of thinking is on the rise in America. Unfortunately, so is the rate of children growing up in fatherless homes, child abuse, drug use, alcohol abuse, addiction to pornography, suicide rates, depression,violence among teens, etc, the list goes on. Coincidence?
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people are simply getting dumber. Has more to do with not reading schoolbooks than it does with not reading a religious text
 
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#500
#500
utvolpj said:
people are simply getting dumber. Has more to do with not reading schoolbooks than it does with not reading a religious text
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Where is the evidence to support this? There is plenty of evidence showing the dropout rate in church, and the issues fade alluded to. Which is also referenced in the Bible before the second coming.


You're correct on the founding fathers though. Many of them "claimed" God, however, they were also involved in a number of unGodly things
 
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