There will be a reckoning.....count on it.

#102
#102
volzfanz said:
Cheek can and has affected the athletic program from top to bottom through his influence on the university and academics. Schools that are committed to the highest academics are not committed to athletics and vice versa. UT will have to decide on one or the other and Cheek will be right in the middle of that and thus in danger of losing his job or conforming to something he doesnt believe in. Unless he truly powerful enough to reduce this university's commitment to excellence in athletics. We shall see sooner than later.
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Umm....Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Stanford, Wisconsin, ... all going to bowls, Stanford and Wisconsin to the Rose Bowl.
 
#103
#103
The saddest part of this hire for me is that ARKANSAS has managed to hire considerably bigger names for their last two coaches than UT. Why? Arkansas gets Petrino / Tennessee gets Dooley...Arkansas gets Bielema / Tennessee gets Jones. Either Tennessee, for some reason, is less attractive to potential coaches than Arkansas, who faces LSU and Alabama...OR, the hiring efforts of UT have been deficient. For clarity, I'm not suggesting Bielema is a home run hire, but he is undeniably more highly regarded than Jones. From my perspective, it appears as though Arkansas' AD has simply been more determined. Why?
 
#104
#104
You know thats part of whats so hurtful about what is happening to this program. My 8 yo son is quickly becoming an oregon fan. He wants to please me so he pretends to like UT too, but its just for show. We actually went to the vandy game and that coulda been the last nail in the coffin for any hope that he would see the light. People dont understand how much we love this university and what an important part of our lives it really is.
 
#105
#105
Jaybus said:
Umm....Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Stanford, Wisconsin, ... all going to bowls, Stanford and Wisconsin to the Rose Bowl.
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Not much ammo there. Stanford i will give you.
Wisconsin coach just bolted for arky due to lack of committment to excellence by wisconsin.
Neither of those three are in SEC
Vandy has had one ok yr in 100 and even they have softened up on student athletes
 
#106
#106
straferockefeller said:
The saddest part of this hire for me is that ARKANSAS has managed to hire considerably bigger names for their last two coaches than UT. Why? Arkansas gets Petrino / Tennessee gets Dooley...Arkansas gets Bielema / Tennessee gets Jones. Either Tennessee, for some reason, is less attractive to potential coaches than Arkansas, who faces LSU and Alabama...OR, the hiring efforts of UT have been deficient. For clarity, I'm not suggesting Bielema is a home run hire, but he is undeniably more highly regarded than Jones. From my perspective, it appears as though Arkansas' AD has simply been more determined. Why?
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read this
NCAAF Report: Exemptions benefit athletes - ESPN

Its not too long and it outlines some academic differences on student athletes. TN is at a decided disadvantage. It definitely affects a coaching hire. It affects recruitability. It affects alot.
 
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#107
#107
straferockefeller said:
The saddest part of this hire for me is that ARKANSAS has managed to hire considerably bigger names for their last two coaches than UT. Why? Arkansas gets Petrino / Tennessee gets Dooley...Arkansas gets Bielema / Tennessee gets Jones. Either Tennessee, for some reason, is less attractive to potential coaches than Arkansas, who faces LSU and Alabama...OR, the hiring efforts of UT have been deficient. For clarity, I'm not suggesting Bielema is a home run hire, but he is undeniably more highly regarded than Jones. From my perspective, it appears as though Arkansas' AD has simply been more determined. Why?
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Not to mention our last hires track record.
Tough conference
Not much in-state to recruit
Gotta recruit in AL, GA, FL, LA, TX. hows that sound to a new coach?
No time to waste. Maybe 3 yrs and ur gone
Add in the black eye of majors being pushed our, fulmer being pushed out, summitt saying she was asked to leave before she was ready, and now it looks like you may be fired even if you win.
Plus academic constraints and you have a complete perfect storm.
People blame fans for everything, but honestly the fans are about the only draw to this job now. Imagine 100k + people from this message board turning all their love toward you and their hatred toward bama on a saturday nigh in october at neyland...........yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh baby, lets get it on now. Got chills. Really the fans are the greatest. We may not get along togethet but let somebody from bama curse at duuuuuuude and i will fight for him. Kinda like brothers. You know.
 
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#109
#109
4chrissy said:
I don't live in Knoxville anymore, I now reside in other parts of the SEC. Where I live it wasn't the fanbase that all sports tv/radio was laughing at today.
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Let em laugh, we will laugh more when we beat them like a drum......
 
#110
#110
volzfanz said:
There will be a reckoning.....count on it.
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I agree...

When all the grimy details come out on Grudengate, there will be a lot of VERY ANGRY people calling for heads in the administration..
 
#112
#112
WhiteRhino said:
Don't count on it, I got sources that say we were trolled!
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Trolled by hargis? Hes old school. He staked his reputation on it.....literally.
Trolled by CBS out of memphis? Do you think CBS would run a story on their news network w/o some very credible sources?

At some point, people have to wonder whats goin on. Someone is not being truthful.
 
#113
#113
volzfanz said:
You know thats part of whats so hurtful about what is happening to this program. My 8 yo son is quickly becoming an oregon fan. He wants to please me so he pretends to like UT too, but its just for show. We actually went to the vandy game and that coulda been the last nail in the coffin for any hope that he would see the light. People dont understand how much we love this university and what an important part of our lives it really is.
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It is a part of our culture and our heritage here in East TN. Alabama people are not happy without their stout rival in the North either I can assure you. They want us back worse than a lot of Vol fans do.

It is amazing really.

But do not say anything negative or you are not a real fan.
 
#116
#116
volzfanz said:
Not much ammo there. Stanford i will give you.
Wisconsin coach just bolted for arky due to lack of committment to excellence by wisconsin.
Neither of those three are in SEC
Vandy has had one ok yr in 100 and even they have softened up on student athletes
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I don't know all of the reasons Bielema went to Arkansas, but I suspect $3.2 million per year had something to do with it.

We may have a different opinion of a successful football program. That's OK. In my book, all four of those schools have had success, and I won't hesitate to add Notre Dame and the military academies to the list as well.

Graduation rates for all student athletes was just announced in October. You might be happy to know that the graduation rate for football at UT stands at 58% and is the third lowest graduation rate in the SEC. Alabama stands at 75%, LSU 77%, Florida 75%, and Vandy 85%. On the other hand, Arkansas at 55% is worse that Tennessee, and look what a great year they had in football. To really put things in perspective, the NC game will be Notre Dame at 97% vs. Alabama at 75%.

Your theory that academic achievement is inversely proportional to winning football games does not fit the observed data.
 
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#118
#118
Jaybus said:
I don't know all of the reasons Bielema went to Arkansas, but I suspect $3.2 million per year had something to do with it.

We may have a different opinion of a successful football program. That's OK. In my book, all four of those schools have had success, and I won't hesitate to add Notre Dame and the military academies to the list as well.

Graduation rates for all student athletes was just announced in October. You might be happy to know that the graduation rate for football at UT stands at 58% and is the third lowest graduation rate in the SEC. Alabama stands at 75%, LSU 77%, Florida 75%, and Vandy 85%. On the other hand, Arkansas at 55% is worse that Tennessee, and look what a great year they had in football. To really put things in perspective, the NC game will be Notre Dame at 97% vs. Alabama at 75%.

Your theory that academic achievement is inversely proportional to winning football games does not fit the observed data.
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You don't get it. Other schools have different grading scales, and joke classes. There are many ways to fudge the numbers.
 
#119
#119
Jaybus said:
I don't know all of the reasons Bielema went to Arkansas, but I suspect $3.2 million per year had something to do with it.

We may have a different opinion of a successful football program. That's OK. In my book, all four of those schools have had success, and I won't hesitate to add Notre Dame and the military academies to the list as well.

Graduation rates for all student athletes was just announced in October. You might be happy to know that the graduation rate for football at UT stands at 58% and is the third lowest graduation rate in the SEC. Alabama stands at 75%, LSU 77%, Florida 75%, and Vandy 85%. On the other hand, Arkansas at 55% is worse that Tennessee, and look what a great year they had in football. To really put things in perspective, the NC game will be Notre Dame at 97% vs. Alabama at 75%.

Your theory that academic achievement is inversely proportional to winning football games does not fit the observed data.
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I think you may be missing the whole point. The graduation rates are an indication of the problem the AD has with the academic side of UT. The AD wants the University to fully support our student-athletes like the schools you mentioned do. One of the problems the OP alluded to with hiring a coach is that the prospective coach is aware of this problem and knows it will be tougher to sell UT because other schools are more supportive of their athletes. We want the graduation rates to be as high as the other schools but in order for that to occur the UT English department and everyone else needs to get on board. Once everyone is working together for the good of the student-athlete two things are likely to occur. One, our graduation rates will go up and secondly some of those top notch athletes may not see the lack of academic support as a problem anymore which in turn makes recruiting easier. Then after Butch retires after winning multiple NCs here it will be easier to hire a top notch coach who doesn't have to worry that an English professor who hates athletes will hinder the program.
 
#120
#120
BigOrangeTailgate said:
I think you may be missing the whole point. The graduation rates are an indication of the problem the AD has with the academic side of UT. The AD wants the University to fully support our student-athletes like the schools you mentioned do. One of the problems the OP alluded to with hiring a coach is that the prospective coach is aware of this problem and knows it will be tougher to sell UT because other schools are more supportive of their athletes. We want the graduation rates to be as high as the other schools but in order for that to occur the UT English department and everyone else needs to get on board. Once everyone is working together for the good of the student-athlete two things are likely to occur. One, our graduation rates will go up and secondly some of those top notch athletes may not see the lack of academic support as a problem anymore which in turn makes recruiting easier. Then after Butch retires after winning multiple NCs here it will be easier to hire a top notch coach who doesn't have to worry that an English professor who hates athletes will hinder the program.
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I understand that. In fact, my nephew had to experience the prejudice against student athletes this semester. He is a D-line player at Kent St and Chemical Engineering student who made the Dean's list last semester. I would say he is an excellent student who happens to be 6' 5" 265 and loves football. Nevertheless, he was forced to drop a class he had an A average in because the professor refused to allow him to makeup an exam he missed due to an away game at Rutgers. He could have taken a C, rather than dropping the class, but has a desire to attend law school.

But this prejudice is only a partial explanation and I don't think fully explains why the graduation rate is this low. Every school has these professors, and it is not so easy to force them into abandoning their stereotyping of football players.

I believe this constant changing of the guard is a big part of the problem. A new AD or coach has his work cut out. Academic aid programs are likely to be lower priority tasks for a new staff than for an established, stable staff. I'm a firm believer that nothing builds up these kid's self-esteem like doing well academically, particularly for those who have always been good football players, but have had trouble academically. And that self-esteem equates to a winning attitude that spills over onto the playing field. More than anything else, the kids need to simply believe that they can win.

Many of those English professors may have a change of heart if a genuine and organized effort to help the student athletes achieve academically is made highly visible. We need some good academic aid programs for student athletes and to make the public aware of them through desparately needed PR. It would help if the potential recruits heard it from someone other than the coach who is trying to persuade them.
 
#121
#121
WhiteRhino said:
Let em laugh, we will laugh more when we beat them like a drum......
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What world do you live in where Butch Jones is taking down Florida, Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Auburn and others? Was it his loss to Toledo? Was it his inability to take a loaded team from Brian Kelly in the worst BCS conference and not make a decent bowl game, much less a BCS game?

And, the people laughing at the OP won't be when the spitting in the face of the money people comes home to roost. People have no idea how badly the duo of Cheek and Hart hurt this program financially yesterday. People pull the "true fan" crap and chastise anyone who doesn't get in line, all the while giving the people who are truly hurting this program a pass.
 
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#122
#122
Unimane said:
What world do you live in where Butch Jones is taking down Florida, Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Auburn and others? Was it his loss to Toledo? Was it his inability to take a loaded team from Brian Kelly in the worst BCS conference and not make a decent bowl game, much less a BCS game?

And, the people laughing at the OP won't be when the spitting in the face of the money people comes home to roost. People have no idea how badly the duo of Cheek and Hart hurt this program financially yesterday. People pull the "true fan" crap and chastise anyone who doesn't get in line, all the while giving the people who are truly hurting this program a pass.
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Wow, guy hasn't even coached a game yet Nostradamus, but yet you can see the future and say he can't do it. Your world must suck bro, always being woe unto me all the time. Tell ya what, Vandy has room on it's bandwagon, go get on it and stfu.
 
#123
#123
WhiteRhino said:
Wow, guy hasn't even coached a game yet Nostradamus, but yet you can see the future and say he can't do it. Your world must suck bro, always being woe unto me all the time. Tell ya what, Vandy has room on it's bandwagon, go get on it and stfu.
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Spare me the "true fan" foolishness and use the brain you have. Tell me how a coach who has been mediocre at other schools will somehow be successful in the toughest league in the country? He had 23 wins and 14 losses playing against Rutgers, UConn, Louisville, South Florida and the like while using players from Kelly, who did far better than Jones at the same places.

I don't live in a world of woe, I live in a world of common sense and reality. Just because he has the title of UT coach doesn't mean you have to leave your senses and think he's going to suddenly win. Either way, Pollyannas like you don't tell me jack about whom to cheer for or whether or not I can say whatever the hell I want. The problem is not fans like me, they're the ones who cover their mouths and accept the raping they are getting because they have bought into this stupid idea that that's what good fans do.
 
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#124
#124
Unimane said:
Spare me the "true fan" foolishness and use the brain you have. Tell me how a coach who has been mediocre at other schools will somehow be successful in the toughest league in the country? He had 23 wins and 14 losses playing against Rutgers, UConn, Louisville, South Florida and the like while using players from Kelly, who did far better than Jones at the same places.

I don't live in a world of woe, I live in a world of common sense and reality. Just because he has the title of UT coach doesn't mean you have to leave your senses and think he's going to suddenly win. Either way, Pollyannas like you don't tell me jack about whom to cheer for or whether or not I can say whatever the hell I want. The problem is not fans like me, they're the ones who cover their mouths and accept the raping they are getting because they have bought into this stupid idea that that's what good fans do.
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LOL so now you wanna equate accepting a new coach and wanting the best to getting raped? WTF kind of person are you son? You need help you 12 yr old mouth breather. Jeebus kid, I bet you want the world to end on Dec 21 too. How about this, go be a Vandy fan and leave this to the people who can be rational.
 
#125
#125
didn't coach Jones say 4 conference titles out of 6 years as a head coach? sounds good to me,hopefully the SEC learning curve won't get away from him,i think he will be a solid coach
 
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