There's not a penalty to harsh for PSU!

#226
#226
bamawriter said:
The NCAA actually has drug/PED rules on the books. They are convoluted, and way too much is left up to the schools and/or conferences, but the rules are there.

There are no rules regarding criminal behavior. The NCAA has nothing in its bylaws that is reflective of the Clery Act, so the NCAA cannot force its members to comply with it.
Click to expand...

Your point here is well taken. I'm not sure it doesn't apply to ethics and standards in this case, at least according to the letter Emmert sent PSU.
 
#228
#228
vol66 said:
Your point here is well taken. I'm not sure it doesn't apply to ethics and standards in this case, at least according to the letter Emmert sent PSU.
Click to expand...

I see what you're getting at. Here's why it doesn't work:

As a matter of civil law, character clauses can be applied to individuals, but not groups of individuals such as businesses. So if the membership of a particular organization is made up of business (think the Better Business Bureau), then the organization can't enforce a character clause on its members. It can require its members to maintain their own character clauses, which the NCAA most certainly does. But if Georgia's AD gets caught with a student in his car, and her panties in his lap, it's up to UGA to enforce its character clause. The NCAA can't punish UGA for what the AD did unless what the AD did specifically violates an NCAA bylaw, which it obviously doesn't.

At this point, PSU has enforced its character clause, because the violators have all been fired. The NCAA can't jump down PSU's throat, because there is no character clause that applies to PSU as a whole.
 
#229
#229
Rick Reilly: Joe Paterno's True Legacy - ESPN

Rick Reilly throwing punches

What a fool I was.




In 1986, I spent a week in State College, Pa., researching a 10-page Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year piece on Joe Paterno.




It was supposed to be a secret, but one night the phone in my hotel room rang. It was a Penn State professor, calling out of the blue.




"Are you here to take part in hagiography?" he said.




"What's hagiography?" I asked.




"The study of saints," he said. "You're going to be just like the rest, aren't you? You're going to make Paterno out to be a saint. You don't know him. He'll do anything to win. What you media are doing is dangerous."




Jealous egghead, I figured.




What an idiot I was.
Click to expand...
 
#231
#231
bamawriter said:
I see what you're getting at. Here's why it doesn't work:

As a matter of civil law, character clauses can be applied to individuals, but not groups of individuals such as businesses. So if the membership of a particular organization is made up of business (think the Better Business Bureau), then the organization can't enforce a character clause on its members. It can require its members to maintain their own character clauses, which the NCAA most certainly does. But if Georgia's AD gets caught with a student in his car, and her panties in his lap, it's up to UGA to enforce its character clause. The NCAA can't punish UGA for what the AD did unless what the AD did specifically violates an NCAA bylaw, which it obviously doesn't.

At this point, PSU has enforced its character clause, because the violators have all been fired. The NCAA can't jump down PSU's throat, because there is no character clause that applies to PSU as a whole.
Click to expand...

You're wrong on this. The member is PSU and PSU can be held to certain standards.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#232
#232
vol66 said:
it's a good point he brings up about the presidents always getting off scott free. I've found myself forgetting that Spanier hasn't been charged with anything, he simply resigned.
Click to expand...

I still think it's likely that he'll be charged during or after the Curley and Schultz cases. Paterno would have been, too, had he lived long enough to see it.
 
#233
#233
VolBeef88 said:
You're wrong on this. The member is PSU and PSU can be held to certain standards.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Of course, and those standards are spelled out in the NCAA bylaws. But a character or morals clause is an ambiguous and arbitrary standard that can only apply to individuals. If it could be applied to groups as a whole, UGA could have been punished because of their former AD's lapse in judgement. The court generally frowns on character clauses being applied to an entire group. Basically they have to be enforced at a micro rather than a macro level.
 
#234
#234
bamawriter said:
I still think it's likely that he'll be charged during or after the Curley and Schultz cases. Paterno would have been, too, had he lived long enough to see it.
Click to expand...

I agree with ya there, Paterno would have been in cuffs today.
 
#235
#235
vol66 said:
it's a good point he brings up about the presidents always getting off scott free. I've found myself forgetting that Spanier hasn't been charged with anything, he simply resigned.
Click to expand...

That's pretty likely to change. I would be surprised if he didn't wind up behind bars at this point.

The Freeh report will basically be a roadmap for the district attorney, and it's pretty apparent that the four men at the top are all guilty of felonies.
 
#236
#236
bamawriter said:
Of course, and those standards are spelled out in the NCAA bylaws. But a character or morals clause is an ambiguous and arbitrary standard that can only apply to individuals. If it could be applied to groups as a whole, UGA could have been punished because of their former AD's lapse in judgement. The court generally frowns on character clauses being applied to an entire group. Basically they have to be enforced at a micro rather than a macro level.
Click to expand...

The character clauses are ambiguous and arbitrary on purpose. I guarantee you the NCAA has ways to punish member institutions for things like this.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#237
#237
VolBeef88 said:
The character clauses are ambiguous and arbitrary on purpose. I guarantee you the NCAA has ways to punish member institutions for things like this.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

They've had ample chances to do it. Why haven't they?

I keep coming back to this: Baylor's basketball coach covered up the murder of a player at the hands of another player, and the NCAA stayed silent. If they could punish criminal behavior, why didn't they do it then? I'm not trying to get into a discussion of which coverup is worse, or more galling. So let's not go there.

As of yet, no one has been able to point to the rule or bylaw that gives the NCAA the authority to deal with this situation.
 
#238
#238
bamawriter said:
They've had ample chances to do it. Why haven't they?

I keep coming back to this: Baylor's basketball coach covered up the murder of a player at the hands of another player, and the NCAA stayed silent. If they could punish criminal behavior, why didn't they do it then? I'm not trying to get into a discussion of which coverup is worse, or more galling. So let's not go there.

As of yet, no one has been able to point to the rule or bylaw that gives the NCAA the authority to deal with this situation.
Click to expand...

That's because there is none... They can't do anything in this situation, and they won't do anything in this situation. Freeh's report will provide more than enough guidance to whoever prosecutes these bastards that they probably won't breath air as free men ever again.

But I still have yet to hear one reason outside of lust for revenge as to why the entirety of central PA should suffer dire consequences for the actions of the university leadership.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#239
#239
bamawriter said:
They've had ample chances to do it. Why haven't they?

I keep coming back to this: Baylor's basketball coach covered up the murder of a player at the hands of another player, and the NCAA stayed silent. If they could punish criminal behavior, why didn't they do it then? I'm not trying to get into a discussion of which coverup is worse, or more galling. So let's not go there.

As of yet, no one has been able to point to the rule or bylaw that gives the NCAA the authority to deal with this situation.
Click to expand...

I've pointed it out, you just won't accept it. And severity of the situation is what matters. The fact that little boys were raped and that the 4 top people hid it allowed for many more to get raped. I wouldn't be surprised at what the NCAA does. But I am confident that they have cover if they choose to nail PSU.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#240
#240
milohimself said:
That's because there is none... They can't do anything in this situation, and they won't do anything in this situation. Freeh's report will provide more than enough guidance to whoever prosecutes these bastards that they probably won't breath air as free men ever again.

But I still have yet to hear one reason outside of lust for revenge as to why the entirety of central PA should suffer dire consequences for the actions of the university leadership.
Click to expand...

Because from a legal stand point the top leadership is the university.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#241
#241
VolBeef88 said:
I've pointed it out, you just won't accept it. And severity of the situation is what matters. The fact that little boys were raped and that the 4 top people hid it allowed for many more to get raped. I wouldn't be surprised at what the NCAA does. But I am confident that they have cover if they choose to nail PSU.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

This thread has grown to 16 pages. Please either copy and paste the rule, or give me the number from the rulebook. You've referred to a behavior clause that isn't even listed with the violations. If you've pointed out something else, then please point it out again. But they can't level a program based on that behavior clause.
 
#247
#247
knucklehead_vol said:
You sure about that?
Click to expand...

If you mean that Joe Paterno was actually the top dog at PSU despite the chain of command, I concede.

If you mean "are you sure the BOT weren't involved?" New evidence would have to come out to convince me that they were. Based on what we know, they suck at their roles, but they weren't involved in covering up kiddie rape.
 
#248
#248
bamawriter said:
The top leadership at PSU is the Board of Trustees, and they weren't involved.
Click to expand...
.

If you don't think the President and VP of a University is considered top leadership then please let's quit discussing this. Because if that's your belief then yopure so off that you will never comprehend the make up of organizations. This post makes you look ignorant. Sorruy, but it does.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#249
#249
bamawriter said:
As bad as PSU bungled this entire situation, they can easily answer those 4 questions.
Click to expand...

I didn't post it for the questions, I posted because these were the bylaws Emmert had some questions about BEFORE the investigation. The last one, 19.01.2,
well that seem sufficiently broad, that coaches and administrators could fall under that and as he says, they've used that in major violation cases.
 
#250
#250
vol66 said:
I didn't post it for the questions, I posted because these were the bylaws Emmert had some questions about BEFORE the investigation. The last one, 19.01.2,
well that seem sufficiently broad, that coaches and administrators could fall under that and as he says, they've used that in major violation cases.
Click to expand...

It's been cited when punishing other violations. It is not a violation in and of itself. They can cite 19.01.2 if they charge PSU with a violation of NCAA rules. If they don't charge PSU, 19.01.2 is inapplicable.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top