"They're out to get us!" The science behind conspiracy addicts, and a possible cure

#106
#106
utvolpj said:
Yep, the individual is in charge of their health. Surprised we agree
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lol.....I was talking more about the poison in the creek. Obviously the individual can't decide. Because the creek effects more than just the individual.
Some times the individual can decide. Some times the individual can partially decide. Some times the individual has no choice.
Society decides what falls into each category.
And that is how it has to work.
 
#107
#107
Velo Vol said:
But none has turned out to be the gateway to a new totalitarian state.
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I mean, kinda.

Rawesome Foods Raid - The Colbert Report | Comedy Central US

The war on raw milk is a ridiculous example that doesn't affect many lives, but what about the war on drugs, which is for the sake of public health and safety? I would say the war on drugs is at the top of domestic issues and specifically because it is so draconian and totalitarian.
 
#108
#108
luthervol said:
So person A can shoot off fireworks all night? I think his neighbors may disagree.
What can person A dump in the creek? Anything that doesn't harm others.
What can he not dump? Anything that harms others.
There you go again ignoring the fact that someone has to decide when an activity becomes harmful to others.
I think that person A and B may disagree. Person A my even consider person B's idea of harmful to be an infringement on his rights to dump things he considers to not be harmful.

I think you get the idea.
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Think about the point you're making. You're trying to say it's problematic to think this way because someone has to decide what's harmful, but that's the case with any level of regulation....ipso facto, your hangup is a hangup with your preferred level of regulation.
 
#109
#109
n_huffhines said:
Think about the point you're making. You're trying to say it's problematic to think this way because someone has to decide what's harmful, but that's the case with any level of regulation....ipso facto, your hangup is a hangup with your preferred level of regulation.
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It's not a hangup.
We obviously have to have regulations.
How much regulation will always be the focus of debate.
Who ultimately decides? Society.
 
#110
#110
luthervol said:
It's not a hangup.
We obviously have to have regulations.
How much regulation will always be the focus of debate.
Who ultimately decides? Society.
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You mean the government, not society. We have a representative government, but society is not deciding these things.
 
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#112
#112
n_huffhines said:
You mean the government, not society. We have a representative government, but society is not deciding these things.
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Society formed the government. Society can choose to change its representatives. Society can choose to change the government.
 
#113
#113
n_huffhines said:
You mean the government, not society. We have a representative government, but society is not deciding these things.
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It decides the things that it cares about. If enough people wanted raw milk, you would be able to buy raw milk.
 
#114
#114
luthervol said:
Does a city, community, or neighborhood have the right to establish a noise ordinance that limits the rights of an individual to shoot off fireworks at any hour of the night?
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I believe that is established that they do. Is it right is the question I have trouble with.
 
#117
#117
luthervol said:
Society formed the government. Society can choose to change its representatives. Society can choose to change the government.
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That's not the same thing as society deciding this stuff. It just means society has a check, not that they actually decide it.
 
#119
#119
luthervol said:
Society formed the government. Society can choose to change its representatives. Society can choose to change the government.
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And society would, but society is dumb. "All the elected officials are idiots," says the majority of society, "and they all need to change. Except mine. Mine is good." Repeat in every precinct and you've got America.

Or the fact that society is so easily swayed by emotional manipulation and populism. Say you hate the right people and policies, and you've got whatever demographic you want eating right out of your hands.
 
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#121
#121
Velo Vol said:
It decides the things that it cares about. If enough people wanted raw milk, you would be able to buy raw milk.
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OK, but is what constitutes "enough" reasonable? Here we are living in a country where less than 10% of people think weed should be illegal and it's still federally illegal, only 14 states where it's totally legal, and 32 states where it's only legal for medical purposes. Kinda pokes a hole in that theory.
 
#122
#122
AshG said:
And society would, but society is dumb. "All the elected officials are idiots," says the majority of society, "and they all need to change. Except mine. Mine is good." Repeat in every precinct and you've got America.

Or the fact that society is so easily swayed by emotional manipulation and populism. Say you hate the right people and policies, and you've got whatever demographic you want eating right out of your hands.
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Great post. This is why the federal government needs to be scaled way, way back and the vast majority of power reverted back to the states and localities.
 
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#124
#124
luthervol said:
It's not a hangup.
We obviously have to have regulations.
How much regulation will always be the focus of debate.
Who ultimately decides? Society.
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There are countless examples of things that government does - at least initially - in spite of society.
 
#125
#125
n_huffhines said:
OK, but is what constitutes "enough" reasonable? Here we are living in a country where less than 10% of people think weed should be illegal and it's still federally illegal, only 14 states where it's totally legal, and 32 states where it's only legal for medical purposes. Kinda pokes a hole in that theory.
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I don't know that this applies for marijuana, but the general way it happens is that you have a small group of people that strongly cares about something on one side of an issue, while most of the public doesn't care at all. Or not enough to bother changing things.
 
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