This describes what has happened to college football perfectly.

[GAVol]

I feel like we can turn a discussion of Otis from Ooltewah into a thread that lasts for years.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

My issue in this is people drag the players about what's happened when these kids are navigating the rules they didn't make.

Sure, they're making money and leveraging their skills into money but that's not rules they made and they're just fielding offers.

The schools sold it and the fans, like Otis, WANTED it to be on TV and sold. We did. Let's drop dragging the kids and perhaps I, as an old Otis, should admit that I helped create this, not the current players.

Athletes are finally taking part in the economic system that’s made many people and institutions insanely wealthy, yet some idiot fans still insist on dragging the players.

It’s not the athletes’ fault we are where we are, nor is it their problem to fix.

 

[Voltopia]

Otis never cared how the sausage was made. He just wants to have a good time watching football. He has survived the forward pass, integration, targeting and a million other things that were going to kill the game. He'll survive this too.

So folks say. But when the sport is boiled down to a professional endeavour, and there's nothing left of the college or the town or the region to connect to it, what is there really to care about? I guess just football itself? So why does the "Tennessee" on the jersey matter anymore? Why even be a fan of a particular school? Or is just being a fan of the team and the school and the local stuff never mattered to begin with? I've seen people say about how they won't care about particular players anymore, just the jerseys -- but why would those jerseys even matter? When every team is just paid workers, who cares if Alabama beats Tennessee, or Tennessee beats Alabama? It won't have anything to do with the schools, and the players won't be playing for the school, so ... what's the big deal at that point?

I think it's just hard to square that away with the conversations about what makes college football different than the NFL - that is, the more passionate, more vocal, and more engaged nature of college football fans. I get that the schools have sold those fans up the river. I know they took the bag first. I'm just mystified as to where people think this is going to go. (And yes, I'm tipping my poorly concealed hand, in that I again think it has no business being connected to the schools at that point, but that's another discussion for another time).

 

[GAVol]

Athletes are finally taking part in the economic system that’s made many people and institutions insanely wealthy, yet some idiot fans still insist on dragging the players.

It’s not their fault we are where we are, nor is it their problem to fix.

Seriously . . . Athletes have waited around for years. Conferences have been handing out these monster rights fees checks for 20 years on one hand while clinging to a pipe dream about amateurism so they could avoid sharing more than they have to. If the schools had any foresight, they could have set aside a token amount like 5% for the players to provide a significant stipend and benefits and this would have been much easier to navigate.

 

[Voltopia]

I feel like we can turn a discussion of Otis from Ooltewah into a thread that lasts for years.

I wear, that dude takes like five minutes to get to his question. Every time Otis called in to Sportstalk I had to mute it.

 

[JoeMiltonsAgent]

And this is the sad part of this.

Will the coming "players are employees" also destroy the ability of those schools and that good competition to field teams without having to budget money to pay them "market value?"

Can the NCAA divorce itself from the real "high money, high value" teams like the SEC and B1G, mostly, to let real amateur college athletics survive?

That's the end I see. Whether we like it or not, schools like the SEC (perhaps with Vandy declining) form a pro league and leave smaller schools to play "good ol' college football." It'll suck because a lot of school tradition will be gone at places like UT, but maybe it won't kill Lenoir Rhyne type schools.

I think the LR, Carson Newman's, and Tusculums will be OK because you're not going to see ESPN and CBS or whoever shelling out billions of dollars for the rights to televise those schools and get that sweet, addictive ad revenue.

I think the schools need to divorce themselves from the NCAA regardless.

Let the smaller programs do their thing and let the big Power 5 Conferences be the NFL feeder programs and television spectacle they want to be.

If it means putting players on salaries as employees, then so be it. This whole pretense of "student-athlete" has been out the window for years , at least with the big schools IMO.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Athletes are finally taking part in the economic system that’s made many people and institutions insanely wealthy, yet some idiot fans still insist on dragging the players.

It’s not their fault we are where we are, nor is it their problem to fix.

There's been decades of greed and control by the schools since they sued to get TV rights from the NCAA who, back then, limited the media money flowing into college athletics. The blame is right there.

The conferences and schools wanted more TV money and went crazy creating a pro product, light shows, fireworks, flyovers, a huge media event called college football.

I just don't get why people can't see it's not these players that created this crap. It was us. We were drunk with good football and wanted it all damn day on Saturday just like we had it on Sunday.

But sure, the players that are <25yo caused this. That's what frosts my tootsies in all this.

 

[GAVol]

I think the LR, Carson Newman's, and Tusculums will be OK because you're not going to see ESPN and CBS or whoever shelling out billions of dollars for the rights to televise those schools and get that sweet, addictive ad revenue.

I think the schools need to divorce themselves from the NCAA regardless.

Let the smaller programs do their thing and let the big Power 5 Conferences be the NFL feeder programs and television spectacle they want to be.

If it means putting players on salaries as employees, then so be it. This whole pretense of "student-athlete" has been out the window for years , at least with the big schools IMO.

I think that's the way it has to go - 4 super conferences partnered with the NFL or some sort of alliance. Then G5 does their own thing like they all did when they were back in 1-AA.

 

[JoeMiltonsAgent]

Beacuse fans are entitled and can‘t handle losing any perceived lack of control they never really had.

And if some of these fans are honest, they don’t like the idea of 19 year-old kids taking part in that thing called capitalism…for a variety of reasons.

Sighs. Agreeing with a Gator fan on anything makes me feel dirty lol

Good points.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I think the LR, Carson Newman's, and Tusculums will be OK because you're not going to see ESPN and CBS or whoever shelling out billions of dollars for the rights to televise those schools and get that sweet, addictive ad revenue.

I think the schools need to divorce themselves from the NCAA regardless.

Let the smaller programs do their thing and let the big Power 5 Conferences be the NFL feeder programs and television spectacle they want to be.

If it means putting players on salaries as employees, then so be it. This whole pretense of "student-athlete" has been out the window for years , at least with the big schools IMO.

My concern is the courts. I'm not sure they can carve this up to say: these schools are pro schools and need to pay players. These schools aren't and don't have to pay players.

I don't see a reasonable, legal way to say Carson Newman isn't a college like UT. There's a lot of similarities. A business is still a business even if it doesn't generate revenue so C-N can't say "but we shouldn't have to pay players because we don't make money." No business can do that.

I feel it's a disaster unless schools get out of sports altogether.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Sighs. Agreeing with a Gator fan on anything makes me feel dirty lol

Good points.

I won’t tell anyone if you don’t.

 

[Voltopia]

I feel it's a disaster unless schools get out of sports altogether.

That's the only destination that makes sense to me. All the rest is shuffling the deck chairs.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That's the only destination that makes sense to me. All the rest is shuffling the deck chairs.

And that's sad. Like Dads do, I would like to think my (grand to great-grand) kid could earn the Orange and slap the sign and run the T. I'd be grinning if one of the girls could get out on The Summitt and show us something.

I can't see it. I'm wrong a lot and I'll be happy to be wrong on this, but I can't see it.

 

[JoeMiltonsAgent]

My concern is the courts. I'm not sure they can carve this up to say: these schools are pro schools and need to pay players. These schools aren't and don't have to pay players.

I don't see a reasonable, legal way to say Carson Newman isn't a college like UT. There's a lot of similarities. A business is still a business even if it doesn't generate revenue so C-N can't say "but we shouldn't have to pay players because we don't make money." No business can do that.

I feel it's a disaster unless schools get out of sports altogether.

Yeah....thats an excellent point.

I'm not smart enough to get into the legal minutiae very much but maybe tie it into the revenue each respective school gets versus how much they should or can compensate a player.

 

[JoeMiltonsAgent]

I won’t tell anyone if you don’t.

Sounds good to me.

 

[volfeeva]

y’all always fail to mention the billions of dollars that were being made off their backs n if you woulda offered those same “loyal” players these deals they would’ve reacted the same way… nobody forcing y’all to watch if you hate it this bad I love that the players openly get paid now they should… America has always been a capitalistic country it’s about time college football caught up… it will balance it self out in the years to come right now it is new but enough bad NIL deals will adjust the market college football is still fun and thriving change is a part of life.

Just because colleges and universities made a profit off of college players playing football is not an argument that things were broke and needed to change. College players got a free education ( or at least was offered one), and many got other perks along the way. They also got exposure that if they were good enough led to them going into the pros. Nobody was harmed by that process and yet many benefitted from it. This is all about greed and love of money. Yes, we know change is inevitable but that doesn't make it better or that we should just accept it. That's like the government telling us we have to buy an EV and get rid of all ICE vehicles because change is inevitable. This does not make college football better for fans, only for the agents and players

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Yeah....thats an excellent point.

I'm not smart enough to get into the legal minutiae very much but maybe tie it into the revenue each respective school gets versus how much they should or can compensate a player.

I'm not either. I'm not an attorney and I say that proudly. I got the gist from the Alston decision that the Supreme Court was going after the NCAA hard for letting this happen so I think it's done within a few years.

The question is what will the school admins do next? We're lucky, I guess, that Randy Boyd is a sports savvy guy who will probably navigate the business transition as well as any admin, but I cringe like everyone else at the Tennessee Farm Bureau Volunteers or somesuch.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Just because colleges and universities made a profit off of college players playing football is not an argument that things were broke and needed to change. College players got a free education ( or at least was offered one), and many got other perks along the way. They also got exposure that if they were good enough led to them going into the pros. Nobody was harmed by that process and yet many benefitted from it. This is all about greed and love of money. Yes, we know change is inevitable but that doesn't make it better or that we should just accept it. That's like the government telling us we have to buy an EV and get rid of all ICE vehicles because change is inevitable. This does not make college football better for fans, only for the agents and players

Actually, the Supreme Court said it directly: no other business in America can claim it is just an amateur sport while making a bunch of money just so it doesn't have to pay the workers.

They settled that the scholarship and perks WAS NOT market value and the schools were fixing wages in violation of Antitrust laws.......or so they thought, that wasn't the case in front of them but they pointed to it. 9-0. Those folks rarely agree 9-0 about anything.

I'm not sure what you mean by not accepting the rule of law from the Supreme Court but I'll listen.

 

[volfeeva]

The only bowl games that ever meant anything 30+ years ago were the ones that had the two teams that were in contention for a NC. Normally 2, maybe 3 bowl games if there was a 3rd team. That's it. Everything else was exhibition just like today. Now there's a playoff with a bunch of exhibition games.

The Citrus Bowl, Hall of Fame Bowl, Holiday Bowl, Independence Bowl, Gator Bowl, Liberty Bowl, ect were as meaningless then as they are now.

Saying past bowl games were not not important or meaningful is pure bunk. You may not be old enough to remember but bowls were what kicked off your next season, and what you played for during the year *( because only 2 can play for the prize NC). Bowl wins were a bragging right by schools and got you good recruits. Bowls were a launching pad for many to get exposure to go into the pros. Google Tenn vs Vinny Testaverde bowl game and tell me that was a meaningless game. There were others as well.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Just because colleges and universities made a profit off of college players playing football is not an argument that things were broke and needed to change. College players got a free education ( or at least was offered one), and many got other perks along the way. They also got exposure that if they were good enough led to them going into the pros. Nobody was harmed by that process and yet many benefitted from it. This is all about greed and love of money. Yes, we know change is inevitable but that doesn't make it better or that we should just accept it. That's like the government telling us we have to buy an EV and get rid of all ICE vehicles because change is inevitable. This does not make college football better for fans, only for the agents and players

Yeah pretty much disagree with all that.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Saying past bowl games were not not important or meaningful is pure bunk. You may not be old enough to remember but bowls were what kicked off your next season, and what you played for during the year *( because only 2 can play for the prize NC). Bowl wins were a bragging right by schools and got you good recruits. Bowls were a launching pad for many to get exposure to go into the pros. Google Tenn vs Vinny Testaverde bowl game and tell me that was a meaningless game. There were others as well.

I’m old enough to remember the Astro Bluebonnet Bowl on the Mizlou TV Network.

Bowls today outside of the CFP and perhaps NY6 feel more meaningless today because there are far too many bowl games.

But I get it…all these TV networks need content and CFB drives advertising revenue, not to mention legalized gambling.

 

[GAVol]

Just because colleges and universities made a profit off of college players playing football is not an argument that things were broke and needed to change. College players got a free education ( or at least was offered one), and many got other perks along the way. They also got exposure that if they were good enough led to them going into the pros. Nobody was harmed by that process and yet many benefitted from it. This is all about greed and love of money. Yes, we know change is inevitable but that doesn't make it better or that we should just accept it. That's like the government telling us we have to buy an EV and get rid of all ICE vehicles because change is inevitable. This does not make college football better for fans, only for the agents and players

But people WERE harmed. That's the whole basis for the Supreme Court decision. There was a business model model in place that controlled what people could earn based on the theory that their product profited while defining itself by not allowing it's workers to earn money.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

But people WERE harmed. That's the whole basis for the Supreme Court decision. There was a business model model in place that controlled what people could earn based on the theory that their product profited while defining itself by not allowing it's workers to earn money.

The theory "old heads" want to use is that it was a fair trade because the scholarship, perks, and exposure is "enough payment."

Peyton didn't get officially paid by UT. A few months after his last game, he got an $11M signing bonus + $7+/yr ROOKIE contract.

You have to be insane to think he was worth just a scholarship, perks, etc at UT and a few months later he was worth a multi-million dollar contract to play the same game.

 

[LouderVol]

Just because colleges and universities made a profit off of college players playing football is not an argument that things were broke and needed to change. College players got a free education ( or at least was offered one), and many got other perks along the way. They also got exposure that if they were good enough led to them going into the pros. Nobody was harmed by that process and yet many benefitted from it. This is all about greed and love of money. Yes, we know change is inevitable but that doesn't make it better or that we should just accept it. That's like the government telling us we have to buy an EV and get rid of all ICE vehicles because change is inevitable. This does not make college football better for fans, only for the agents and players

by the universities and the coaches that kept the money.

It is absolutely better if its a more fair system. doesn't matter if you like it or not, it is objectively more fair now than it was.

what other amateur program of any kind fully restricts the members from their Name, Image, and Likeness? What other amateur program of any kind denies participants from seeking ANY outside income?